Over 400 members!

[TylerDurden]

Wasn't Seth Roberts' point that if larger nations like China develop anything like the Norwegian craze that it could have a tremendous impact on foods like butter? After all, the Chinese demand for shark's fin soup has reportedly been decimating wild shark populations. It seems to me that the biggest future problem that Paleo diets (raw and cooked) will face is Paleo foods becoming TOO popular and this seems to be generally underestimated here, though switching to more efficient production methods, such as employed at Polyface Farms, could help with domesticated animal food supply--not so much with wild species supply, unfortunately.

  The China example is just  vague guesswork. For one thing, Chinese cuisine is quite different from the West, being largely vegetarian etc.  Plus, you gravely overestimate the power of "fad" diets (ie "cooked-palaeodiet") , and underestimate  the power of technology to confound silly, contemporary predictions of starvation.

LOL, thanks for the usual humorous over-the-top language. Quite entertaining.

    * sigh*, "pearls of wisdom before swine!"  -- The idea was to point out, in an off-hand way,  that you were citing much the same utterings that a guy named Malthus had made a couple of centuries ago, which were duly disproven. In other words, you are (merely!) being  2 centuries out of date in your arguments!

[PaleoPhil]

* sigh*, "pearls of wisdom before swine!"

Ah, thanks for the comparison to the noble pig, one of the most useful of animals to humans and highly valued by traditional Irish folk and Europeans in general. How kind of you! How sad that the Hebrews and Arabs did not equally treasure this wonderful animal.

[Dorothy]

Hey Phil, I just want to say thank you to what I now realize was a very deep compliment. You talked me into paleo when you knew that it might contribute to the increase of the prices of your food.

You are the sweetest Malthusian piggie I have ever met! 

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah, I tend to only tell people I like and/or am related to, or that I feel empathy toward, about it, and you're welcome, but if you eat too much I may have to kill you. 

[CitrusHigh]

Yeah, I tend to only tell people I like and/or am related to, or that I feel empathy toward, about it, and you're welcome, but if you eat too much I may have to kill you. 

wow that's enlightened

[CitrusHigh]

The trouble is that giving farmed fish decent food usually means giving them lots of wildcaught fish, which just exacerbates the damage done to wildlife in the sea. That said, farming shellfish like mussels and oysters does no real harm, since they just filter nutrients from their surroundings. The only issue is to make sure they are farmed in unpolluted waters and are only farmed during specific seasons of the year.

Obviously you need to learn a bit more about the subject Ty. Just like small sustainable  land farms, instead of forcing nature to do your bidding, a healthy and sustainable aqua farm is one where we are giving little nudges in the right direction and creating a closed system where there is little to no input and no unused waste. There are functioning models and real world examples already in permaculture, they just need to be implemented on a larger scale and with more frequency.

*Note: When I say closed, I'm referring to a cycle that models nature where everything is used, I do not mean closed in the sense of a cage, that is a given.

Here is a freshwater example... one of the better of its kind...

Aquaculture

[TylerDurden]

I'm very impressed with that farmer. I wish bigger fish-farming operations would do the same.

[TylerDurden]

Ah, thanks for the comparison to the noble pig, one of the most useful of animals to humans and highly valued by traditional Irish folk and Europeans in general. How kind of you! How sad that the Hebrews and Arabs did not equally treasure this wonderful animal.

Not that it matters, but my surname "Purcell" literally means "little pig", and my family's arm crest etc. is that of 3 severed wild boars' heads with a sword driven through them. That doesn't mean, though, that I have any aversions to eating raw, wild boar meat, let alone raw, pastured pork. I am also well aware, for example, that pigs are the most intelligent of all farmed animals, even compared to dogs.

[PaleoPhil]

Ah, how nice. So it was essentially a compliment.

[Addendum to my last post:]...and indirectly whoever reads my posts on this forum and a couple others, of course.

[TylerDurden]

Ah, how nice. So it was essentially a compliment.

you're deluded, as well as wrong.....

[Dorothy]

Phil - it is my habit in life, that when in doubt, to interpret hazy things in their best possible light and take everything I can as a compliment.

So, when you say that you tell others that you like, are family or that you feel empathy for about rpd - since I am not related to you (except maybe real far back ) it left that you either like me or have empathy for me or both. Ok, liking me is really cool and definitely a compliment. Empathy can mean that you feel or experience something  with me and want to help or that I'm simply pitiful. Why look to the negative when there is so much positive to be gotten in most things in the world? I admire how you also tend to interpret things positively.

Oh - and you did call me "my relative" once! That seals it - I will DEFINITELY continue to delight in what was so obviously a compliment (no matter what you intended). 

[Dorothy]

Citrus - that was a really beautiful video! Thank you for posting it.

[CitrusHigh]

If you Enjoyed that here's another one but a little longer and in Spain instead..

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_how_i_fell_in_love_with_a_fish.html

[Dorothy]

Oh - YES! Loving it. 
That was a GREAT video. What a wonderful speaker!
Gotta any more up your sleeve Citrus?

[PaleoPhil]

So, when you say that you tell others that you like, are family or that you feel empathy for about rpd - since I am not related to you (except maybe real far back ) it left that you either like me or have empathy for me or both.
 Ok, liking me is really cool and definitely a compliment. Empathy can mean that you feel or experience something  with me and want to help or that I'm simply pitiful. Why look to the negative when there is so much positive to be gotten in most things in the world? I admire how you also tend to interpret things positively.

Yuppers, thanks. It can be a handicap at times, because it often doesn't occur to me to consider the negative ways that something I write or say could be interpreted and sometimes folks take a more negative meaning from something than I intend. I don't feel "sorry" for people so much as identify with them and feel at one with them against whatever challenges they may be facing.

Oh - and you did call me "my relative" once! That seals it - I will DEFINITELY continue to delight in what was so obviously a compliment (no matter what you intended). 

Yup, definitely intended as compliments. Frankly, I wouldn't want to change Durianrider's mind and invite a cranky person like him here, though I do detect a bit of a good, humorous side to him too, so perhaps even he could potentially reform some day?

[Dorothy]

Yup, definitely intended as compliments. Frankly, I wouldn't want to change Durianrider's mind and invite a cranky person like him here, though I do detect a bit of a good, humorous side to him too, so perhaps even he could potentially reform some day?

If Durianrider suddenly decided that what he really needed was some raw animal fat to fix his brain ..... it might ACTUALLY fix it ....... and then it could be delightful to have him here. LOL.

If he were eating raw animal foods that would delete 95% of his nastiness in attacking others who don't agree with his ethics.

Never say never.

[cherimoya_kid]

Yup, definitely intended as compliments. Frankly, I wouldn't want to change Durianrider's mind and invite a cranky person like him here, though I do detect a bit of a good, humorous side to him too, so perhaps even he could potentially reform some day?

DR is too dominant of a personality.  I don't deal well with dominant personalities.  And, let's face it, that personality type is more of a "cult leader" type than a "helpful teacher"type.  We need helpful teachers here, because we're about fact/truth.  We don't need a leader.  We need people with good, solid factual information.

So no, I don't think he has any place here.  I could be wrong, I just don't think he enjoys or even knows how to to listen to others and discuss things calmly and factually.