transitioning to raw paleo for thin nursing mom?

[Suiren]

I'm thinking that for a nursing mom who is eating complex carbohydrates and drinking lots of water, some sort of salt may be helpful, perhaps from ocean food, blood, rock salt, vegetables?

The only salt I have is sea salt? What vegetables contain salt?
And I DO drink lots of water. Nursing gets me thirsty.

I'd say that natural salts, such as found in blood, are fine, but I seriously doubt that table-salt/rock-salt is in any way useful. As regards blood, I have found it a wonderful, very invigorating food in the past. However, I only got that invigorating effect if I drank raw blood from a wild animal carcass. Blood from grassfed- or grainfed-animals didn't benefit me in the same way at all.

A wild animal carcass is a little hard to find here 
However I can buy wild deer and grassfed new zealand lamb. Would the pieces from the butcher contain some salt/ blood still, enough to give some added health benefits?

Some seaweeds, shellfish or seawater may be tasty if you need salt.

I will see if I can find that, thanks!

[TylerDurden]

Raw organ meats like raw liver contain more natural salts, but, otherwise, other raw organ-meats contain plenty of raw natural salts.

[cherimoya_kid]

Cherimoya_kid, I didn’t mean that the ca/mg ratio in other animals’ milk is all right for us, humans. What I meant is that thinking we can compensate for this unbalance by supplementing with mg is, at best, simplistic. The only logical and natural thing to do is to avoid feeding on milk of other animal species and avoiding all milk anyway after weaning.

I know what you meant, but I don't agree.  I have seen too many cases of people having wonderful healing effects with raw dairy to completely dismiss it.  I DO, though, think the high cal/mag ratio is an insidious, slow-acting problem, and the heart disease and atherosclerosis it can cause is something to be taken seriously, therefore, I suggest the Mg supplements.

Many people do have problems tolerating ANY dairy, though, and they should avoid it. Your sweeping statements, however,  do not apply to everyone, everyone, at all times.

What about the Masai? They specifically required their young women to avoid conceiving until spring, when their butter had the highest nutritional content from the fast-growing spring grass.  I'd say that's pretty good evidence that they were/are getting some benefits from the nutritional content of it.

[reyyzl]

The only salt I have is sea salt? What vegetables contain salt?
And I DO drink lots of water. Nursing gets me thirsty.

Sea beans http://gothamist.com/2007/06/20/sea_beans_much.php  taste very salty, spinach, beet greens, sea grapes http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/sea_grape.htm (tastes salty too) and animal foods such as kidneys, scallops, raw cow dairy (I found unhomogenized yogurt and cheese to suit me nursing) and you can look up vegetables for sodium content here http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2352/2 as well.

[Iguana]

What about the Masai? They specifically required their young women to avoid conceiving until spring, when their butter had the highest nutritional content from the fast-growing spring grass.  I'd say that's pretty good evidence that they were/are getting some benefits from the nutritional content of it.

Of course they are!

And I believe you that raw dairy can improve the health of some people because it’s more nourishing than no food at all  , and even more nourishing than no animal food or no raw food! But in case the person has become tolerant, the question is long term effects. 

Instinctotherapy :
Part Three

_You were telling me that you no longer observed any infection under your dietary conditions.

o As it happens, the last infections that I was able to witness provided me with the key to the mystery. That goes back to the period when I was still hoping to consider milk a semi-initial food. Because of its protein content, I thought that it would enable us to live without slaughtering, and above all, to tell the truth, I loved fine cheeses.

_It gives me some comfort to think that you’re a human being like the rest of us.

o I was even markedly gluttonyier than the average person. That’s perhaps why I came up with a dietary method based on pleasure. Anyway, we had bought our two goats, so as to have our organic milk straight from the udder. I was quite put out to note that every time I went on a milk cure, the slightest cut got infected. There are people who drink milk and who don’t develop infection. We’ll come back to that. For the moment, let’s stick to the facts. I was eating a 100% initial diet and, under such conditions, my cuts got infected as soon as I went near milk, whether it was fresh or in curds. I often scratched my hands; I was in the process of renovating the very old farm that became our first institute. Once when my left forefinger was on the verge of developing an infection, I decided to go on drinking milk in order to see how far things would go. The inflammation on my finger soon turned into a festering bubble, then a red line appeared on the back of my hand and gradually spread to my forearm, then all the way up to my shoulder. Fearing septicemia, I stopped drinking milk. The following day, the line had already receded. When the line had gone down to the middle of my forearm, I resumed milk drinking to make sure that it wasn’t mere chance. The line shot up again in a few days to the middle of my humerus. Then, I stopped drinking milk for good and all. Everything went back to normal gradually. The experience had lasted close to six weeks. I still have a slight scar you can see up close.

_You have to know to be able to see it.

o With instinctotherapy, one scars fast and well. After a cut, for instance, the blood clots in no time. There is no pain, there is no redness on the edges of the wound, and in a few days, it’s all dried up. My wife had the exact same experience as I had. I even noted that infection could develop without an open cut, as if it was triggered off from within, which was at loggerheads with the theory of the attacking germ. Moreover, I noticed that the pus that flowed out of it smelled of goat, something between the milk and the urine of those animals. At first, I thought it was a germ that was contaminating us when we touched our horned animals. However, no hygienic precaution was successful in dispelling the smell.
After six months of cross-checking, I resolved, on the one hand, to put milk in the category of dangerous food (too bad for cheeses) and, on the other, to change my theory.

_Admitting milk contains abnormal molecules....

o I had to admit that those molecules that carried that goat-like smell had got beyond my bowel wall. And as they were also present in my infections still many days after having stopped drinking milk, it seemed obvious that they had stacked up in my body. All subsequent observations came together in proving my model of reasoning; milk poisons us as adulterated food does. It most likely contains a certain percentage of molecules that our enzymes aren’t adapted to, that remain stuck in our metabolism the same way as molecules damaged by cooking do. To get rid of them, the body has to set in motion all kinds of complicated processes.

(…)

o Most MDs are very much aware that something’ s out of joint in present-day theories. However hard researchers try, the problem can never be solved within a cooked framework. The number of disorganizing factors is far too great to make sense of the matter; misinterpretation is inevitable. The first requirement is to find out how disease develops in a raw, instinctive scenario, where everything is necessarily much simpler, given that food is in keeping with the genetic needs of the body.
In the case of bacteria as in that of viruses, when a clean-out would be too dangerous, apparently, the body knows how to stop within safe limits. That’s why infections that one can observe subsequent to milk-drinking occur more commonly in people whose diet is appropriate in other respects. On a cooked diet, the body is typically already too disrupted by the flood of molecules adulterated by heat to deal with the even more foreign molecules taken up in milk.

(…)

o When we take up protein in any food, our digestive enzymes supposedly cut them up into little pieces. But for our enzymes to finish their task, they have to be adapted to those proteins. If we eat initial foods, in theory, there shouldn’t be any problem, inasmuch as one doesn’t go on eating beyond the amounts limited by instincts - if not, part of the protein runs the risk of passing into the blood without being completely digested, for instance, in the form of peptide.

_Therefore, mere overload already sets off an abnormal situation.

o Which proves the importance of instinctive balance. In the case of non-initial food, like milk, we are faced with basically the same scenario: besides the fact that instincts no longer gauge amounts properly, as in the case of proteins knocked about by thermal velocity, miss-shaped or bound with other compounds, they might stand up to the digestive enzyme’s activities and pass into the body while retaining their alien structures. Is that too difficult to follow?

_No, I still understand very well what you’re on about. Those foreign proteins, then, should trigger off immunological reactions, should they?

o Of course; the problem of allergies to milk is well known, especially in the case of babies. Those allergies don’t necessarily last very long. After some time, the body gives up reacting. The immune system enters a state known to specialists as a state of “breach of immunological surveillance.” That’s the time when mothers jump for joy proclaiming: “Ah, now, my baby is at last getting used to milk.” In fact, that’s when danger shows up: the body gives up defending itself, and from then on, the foreign protein can infiltrate through and through without being prevented by anything. It can dissolve in fat, stick to cell membranes, enter the plasma, and go and disrupt DNA in the nucleus.

_Is that what you have already explained to me about non-initial dietary molecules?

o The problem is different with proteins (or possibly with other large molecules) that retain an immunological description that is alien to our body. When that is so, we’re not just dealing with poisoning, but an assault on the immune system health is dependent on.

_Doesn’t the bowel wall screen out large molecules?

o Unfortunately, it lets peptides (sections of proteins) through which are long enough to be antigens, and that sparks off reactions throughout the immune system. It has even just been discovered that polysaccharides (chains comprising several simple sugars in a given order) perhaps play a more crucial role than proteins. Now, those sugars trickle through the bowel wall even more readily; you see that dietary antigens can’t possibly be uncommon in reputedly normal human blood!

[cherimoya_kid]

I still say that, absent any other noticeable symptoms, that fermented raw grassfed dairy's main danger is the heart disease from excess calcium.  I don't know of any other actual proven problems that you couldn't see in a few weeks or months.

As far as the infection thing goes, I don't think I've noticed any difference in tendency to infection of cuts with or without raw dairy. 

[Suiren]

Raw organ meats like raw liver contain more natural salts, but, otherwise, other raw organ-meats contain plenty of raw natural salts.

Thank you!

I know what you meant, but I don't agree.  I have seen too many cases of people having wonderful healing effects with raw dairy to completely dismiss it.  I DO, though, think the high cal/mag ratio is an insidious, slow-acting problem, and the heart disease and atherosclerosis it can cause is something to be taken seriously, therefore, I suggest the Mg supplements.

And I believe you that raw dairy can improve the health of some people because it’s more nourishing than no food at all  , and even more nourishing than no animal food or no raw food! But in case the person has become tolerant, the question is long term effects. 

I hope I can avoid the long term health effects by not being on raw dairy for long. Especially not on a large amount like right now. I assume occasional dairy consumption has a lesser impact.

but speaking of improved health - I never particularly felt sick or unhealthy, BUT I have been noticing differences when it comes to energy. I am usually always very sleepy in the morning (since 2001) and have a hard time getting up, but for the past 3 weeks or so that has changed. I feel rested in the morning, even after "only" 7 hours (and waking up to nurse at night 1-3 times). I don't know if it is the raw butter (or rather the fat in it) or something else that causes this...or maybe I am sleeping better? I'm not usually a bad sleeper though....my diet is the only thing that changed (slightly).

Sea beans http://gothamist.com/2007/06/20/sea_beans_much.php  taste very salty, spinach, beet greens, sea grapes http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/sea_grape.htm (tastes salty too) and animal foods such as kidneys, scallops, raw cow dairy (I found unhomogenized yogurt and cheese to suit me nursing) and you can look up vegetables for sodium content here http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2352/2 as well.

Thank you, I will try to find these things. Some I can even get at the local organic store.

[cherimoya_kid]

I think butter is probably safer than raw dairy...it has no minerals, and therefore the issue of excess calcium goes away.

[Lynnzard]

but speaking of improved health - I never particularly felt sick or unhealthy, BUT I have been noticing differences when it comes to energy. I am usually always very sleepy in the morning (since 2001) and have a hard time getting up, but for the past 3 weeks or so that has changed. I feel rested in the morning, even after "only" 7 hours (and waking up to nurse at night 1-3 times). I don't know if it is the raw butter (or rather the fat in it) or something else that causes this...or maybe I am sleeping better? I'm not usually a bad sleeper though....my diet is the only thing that changed (slightly).

I haven't consumed dairy at all since starting raw until I found a source of raw dairy today, finally. But I can say that after increasing my saturated fat consumption markedly, I also noticed I was feeling well rested on 6-7 hours of sleep and waking up with more energy, a huge change from how I felt when I started this. Perhaps it is the fat.

[cherimoya_kid]

Fat definitely reduces the need for sleep, while simultaneously increasing the quality of sleep.

[Suiren]

I think butter is probably safer than raw dairy...it has no minerals, and therefore the issue of excess calcium goes away.

That is good to know!
I don't really consume a lot of milk, and am planning not to really have any in the future.

I haven't consumed dairy at all since starting raw until I found a source of raw dairy today, finally. But I can say that after increasing my saturated fat consumption markedly, I also noticed I was feeling well rested on 6-7 hours of sleep and waking up with more energy, a huge change from how I felt when I started this. Perhaps it is the fat.

Fat definitely reduces the need for sleep, while simultaneously increasing the quality of sleep.

So it really must be the fat! That is crazy...I can't even begin to tell what a sleepy person I was. Even waking and nursing at night feels far easier now (although I always just used the latch and zzzzz* method ^^), sometimes I even wonder if it is close to wake up time already because I feel so rested (we sleep in the total dark). I had to start wearing a watch.

Lynnzard, what type of raw dairy are you consuming? I have tried raw milk before raw butter, but I don't think I was able to get enough fat through the milk then.

*go back to sleep

[Lynnzard]

Right now, I'm seeing how I do with raw milk and some raw cream. But most of the fat I'm getting is coming from marrow, beef and lamb fat, and fatty fish like salmon, yellow tail, and tuna.