undeveloped land

[svrn]

how much time and money would it take to turn an undeveloped acre of land into something that can completely sustain 3 people? Im looking to make the main focus goats for meat and milk as well as growing some fruit and veg but not too much of that.do i even need to cut trees down to start on the goats?

[ys]

I would add chickens for variety and eggs.  Goats are way too lean in my opinion.  I would buy beef fat to supplement goat meat.

I would estimate a goat would last 2 weeks for 3 people, more or less.  So you would need to slaughter 20-26 goats a year.  How big of a herd do you need to sustain 20-26 kills?

[TylerDurden]

I would imagine that pigs would be the best option. Lots of fat, rather big animals etc.

[Dorothy]

If I remember right it was this book that told you how much land for each kind of animal was necessary with diagrams detailing areas for each sustainability item:
http://www.amazon.com/Barnyard-Your-Backyard-Beginners-Chickens/dp/1580174566

If I remember right it was a half an acre for just a couple of milking goats but there are some excellent miniature milking goats too. Goats are tough because they love to climb and are rascals. Goats eat shrub, not grass - so they would get rid of all the underbrush and low branches first and then eat away at the bark of the trees. Goats are actually very picky about what they eat. They will destroy a weak fence fast looking for the yummies on the other side. They could get over a 6 foot fence easily. I've always loved goats and want some - but unless you have the room for them to roam and forage effectively they really aren't practical. You could get goats to clear the land and eat them when the job is done though. Forget about cows on one acre. Simply not enough room even for miniatures. Pigs are a good choice generally. Chickens and ducks and maybe other birds a must. If you like fish, scallops, oysters etc. - aquaculture is the way to go.

I could type forever on these subjects as I've been researching how to make my tiny lot as productive as possible for a number of years now.

Generally - gardening is the way to get the most food out of a small lot.  It is possible for me to produce nearly all the produce we can eat on my tiny bit of earth. Good thing I love eating fruits and veggies! Finding a lot with some mature fruit and nut trees as well as berry bushes would be a big bonus because the trees could help feed the animals as well as you.

Time and money - Money depends on land values and how much you can buy some goats and chickens for in your area. You could just put up a coop and a shelter for the goats for very little using found items and free things on craig's list or freecycle or buy really nice fancy ones or have them built for you. Time - as long as it takes you to find the property, build or buy the protection for the animals and buy the animals. That's all it would take - the land, the protection from predators and elements for the animals and the animals. You don't have to cut down one single tree for goats and chickens. The plants there will act as cover and food for them actually.

[jessica]

sheep and duck do well in orchards, but it takes a long time for fruit to mature.  berries can be growing within shorter time spans but they are less dense calorically.  how will you feed your animals? its expensive if you do not have a place for them to forage. you can grow plenty of veggies on that amount of land, it would only take one season.  i would recommend the book how to grow more vegetables then you ever thought possible yb john jeavons. 

[CitrusHigh]

Goats are super 'destructive' because they will eat just about anything, if they feel they aren't getting proper nutrition they will girdle your trees by eating the bark off of them, so if you want to keep the trees, you will need wire for wrapping, if you are wanting to lose the trees, then not a big deal. Just make sure you learn a ton about each animal you are going to rear so that you can improvise and meet all of their food requirements, if you got that and water, along with a mineral supplement, you will pretty much never have sick animals. But I would make sure to have more food than your animals can possibly eat, it's so much easier that way. It has been one of my biggest challenges here on our farm coming up with enough forage for our cows without destroying the pastures. Goats are easier, but the principle remains the same, have more than enough so that they can easily satisfy their food requirements and modulate their own nutrition. They know what they need to be healthy and if the variety is available to them, they will keep their health in balance. I also highly recommend you get in to permaculture and learn to raise perennial food plants for you and your animals so that you are more efficient. Strawberries, berries in general and perennial veggies like jerusalem artichoke, hablitzia tamnoides (scandinavian spinach) produce tons of food, even in marginal soil and come back each year, what more could you want?

Also, start planting fruit and nut trees as early as possible, the sooner you do it, the sooner you'll be harvesting, buy good stock, not from undedicated businesses.

Plant lots of legumes, they are wonderful and will add a lot to your soil. If you plant edible legumes, like peas, beans, or for your animals, clovers, alfalfa's, all the better.

Good luck, it will change who you are and be an incredible learning and growth opportunity. I'd keep a journal even though you are not going to feel like it after a day's work, lol!

[Dorothy]

When it comes to plants that completely depends on where you live and the soil, moisture and temperatures there. What grows here or where Thoth lives might not necessarily grow where you are. Berries are very dependent on soil ph and moisture levels. For instance, raspberries and blueberries grow in acid peat the best so I can't have them in my soil or water them with my hose. I have them in containers and have to water them only with captured water. Just about every place I've lived I got one or two books that were my bibles that taught me about the plants that would grow well where I was living and I would read the entries over and over as I got more and more familiar with the plants. You need plants that don't have extreme needs. For instance here peaches and plums will grow - but are too much work and get too many diseases. You want to make it as self-sustainable as possible. It also might be very hard to protect your fruits and vegetables for you to eat if you don't portion off that part of your land well from the animals. Even in my little yard I've had to portion off my vegetables from the chickens.

Food forests are the way to go if you ask me. Are you familiar with that term. I'd love to have a food forest one day.

[CitrusHigh]

I think troll is in New york, unless I'm mistaken or he's planning this project somewhere else. New york is my climate, but that's beside the point, the point is to find perennials to reduce yearly input of time and maximize output, there are perennials for all parts of the world.

[Dorothy]

Yes - perennials are wonderful and a great idea - especially in food forests - but in my climate that would severely constrict my choices when there are so few to begin with. There are some annuals that re-seed themselves readily to the same area and from which I can easily collect seeds and spread the plants to all the places I would like to have them. Also, in my area annuals if protected with easy means can become tropical perennials opening up my choices even more. Gardening always depends on where you live. Troll will be very lucky indeed if he is gardening in the same general climate as you are as you can be a great resource to him. I have gardened in NY too. In spring, summer, fall you can live off just the weeds! I had fabulous rich sandy loam. It was wonderful.

[CitrusHigh]

Yeah I'm certainly not saying to rely completely on perennials, just to take full advantage of them, it is silly not to, it cuts out half the work of the planting season, or if you like, doubles the amount of planting you're able to do, more or less.

Yeah, we have tons of edible 'weeds' here too, not much reason to cultivate salad greens or tubers except for variety, so many salad plants here!

[jessica]

everything is perennial if you save your roots and seeds