Crohn's

[sabertooth]

I have a friend who has been suffering from Crohn's disease for many years. He is very intelligent and somewhat educated on the condition, but its still difficult for me to explain to him that the underlying cause of the autoimmune inflammation could be dietary in nature and that a paleo diet could help immensely with his condition.

I was wondering if anyone has some good information about the real underlying causes of the condition, and how going paleo could help to cure the condition.

[Ioanna]

what does your friend eat now? take medicine? does the medicine help?  does your friend want help?

[sabertooth]

He eats a standard diet.

Cooked meat, vegetables, and lots of grains.

He doesn't take any medication.

I'm not sure if he wants help, but I just hate to see him feel bad when the condition flares up.

He is stubborn and I'm not sure if I could persuade him to give up grains, but if I had some good sources of info to share with him on how grains aggravate the condition I think he would listen.

So I'm basically looking for information to share with him on the nature of the condition, he is skeptical of most alternative nutritional therapy, so whatever evidence I would show him must be solid.

[Ioanna]

i love how eating properly is viewed as 'alternative' 

[Projectile Vomit]

Im not sure if he wants help, but I just hate to see him feel bad when the condition flares up.

Have you told him this just like you're articulating it here? If he doesn't want help, no amount of information you can provide will lead to changes in his behavior. It will just create animosity. No one likes being told what to do.

Maybe just let him know that you have some ideas (i.e. lose the grains and perhaps all complex carbs straight-up), and if he hits a low and wants help let him know he can come to you for advise.

[Ioanna]

completely agree.  why not tell him that you know people who have made dietary changes to achieve 100% recovery from similar health issues after similar duration of nothing else working? if he's interested now or even in months from now, we'll be here to offer what we can then.

[sabertooth]

I have already did this and then some. Explaining that cronhs is often aggravated by certain foods that the digestive track cant break down. I have told him about how by adopting a paleo diet and removing problem foods many people have been able to heal the damage thats been done. The problem is that he has been told by doctors for years that its caused by an auto immune reaction that has damaged parts of his intestines and that although certain things in the diet may aggravate the symptoms, the diet isn't the underlying cause.

So after believing this falsehood for over ten years its difficult to persuade him otherwise...  I was primarily asking for people who could share reports about how gluten and starchy foods make the condition worse, I think that if he were to read some of the reports about how grains make the condition worse, it would be a good start. Then he seems like someone who is open to reason, and even though he would not do raw, he may be convinced to try cooked paleo.

[TylerDurden]

Why would he not want to try cooked-palaeo if he believes that avoiding grains would lessen the symptoms of Crohn's?  I mean he does not have to believe that avoiding grains would solve all his health problems.

[jessica]

    have him  go onto some mainstream paleo sites or source some info from them, or even gaps diets, they all talk about how problematic grains and fibers can be.

[cherimoya_kid]

I've known of several raw foodists, not even paleo dieters, like Paul Nison, who've cured their intestinal problems, including Crohn's, with a raw diet.  Paul had terrible ulcerative colitis, and was about to have a large amount of his colon removed when he tried going raw.

The fact of the matter is, though, that most people will not make a change until they are really, REALLY desperate. 

[sabertooth]

Its kind of sad......my friend is highly intelligent and I have been telling him about the paleo diet, but he is just stubborn in his refusal to give up grains.

He is highly social and enjoys going out and eating with others who enjoy making baked goods and I think he is just afraid of the social stigma behind going gluten free. Which is totally irrational, especially for him because he is so well educated.....the whole situation frustrates me to no end.

There are so many others I know that would rather be in pain or take unsafe drugs than to make a few simple dietary changes,
but you know what they say "you can lead a Horse to water"......

[LePatron7]

There are so many others I know that would rather be in pain or take unsafe drugs than to make a few simple dietary changes,
but you know what they say "you can lead a Horse to water"......

Exactly. My personal experience giving health advice has been to not waste my time. Nobody wants to hear it, the majority won't even look into the things I mention. The few that would listen and were "interested in pursuing" such a diet, lifestyle, etc. never follow through. I've completely stopped giving advice about diet, supplements, etc. Unless someone specifically asks me I don't bother.

And even then. A lot of times when I am asked I mention something they don't know about, and they start arguing even though they have no idea what I'm even talking about since they hadn't even heard about it till right then when I mention it.

[ys]

You are finally seeing it for yourself.  Most people are like your friend.  Even when sick they don't want to hear about raw meat.  I'm not even talking about people without obvious health issues.  I've been saying it all along raw paleo community will remain just a curiosity for a very long time.

The only way it will get serious attention if 100+ year olds raw meat eaters in good health would start popping out all over the place.
I just don't see any other way.

[Projectile Vomit]

There are so many others I know that would rather be in pain or take unsafe drugs than to make a few simple dietary changes...

Bingo!

Western society trains us from a very early age to get our information from 'experts', particularly government sanctioned experts. It takes a special person to snap out of that trance and start experimenting with alternative lifestyles. Those of us who have and do are literally one in tens of millions. We aren't normal. Expecting others to adopt lifestyle practices similar to ours is unreasonable, at least until they're pushed into such a crisis that they start to snap out of their trance too.

If we really want to spread the word, we need to figure out how to deliberately (and compassionately) snap people out of their cultural trances. I don't know how to do this, but am open to other's ideas.

[Inger]

Trance is a great word Eric.

My family... they are exactly like that. They see the health benefits I get from my way of eating/living and they want them too but they go on like in trance... baking Christmas cakes... eating bread.... it is like they are unable to wake up. they want but they cannot they just lack the willpower, energy, or whatever it is. Sometimes they do changes, but very soon fall back to the old pattern. A relative diagnosed pre diabetic and having blood sugar issues, very tired after meals etc. asked what to do and when I told her she said, "what? I cannot give up cookies and bread and the good stuff. What would there be left to enjoy? No I cannot." She has children to care for and could need all the energy and wisdom she could get.. how weird people do not think about that. And she is a very christian woman that prays to god and have special clothes and all because of her strong believes.

I have stopped trying to "change" them long ago. Now I think the only thing that might move to real changes is them facing an illness. The sad thing is many illnesses come very slow... sneaking upon one. When we wake up in real suffering it is too late and people are to damaged to be able to change anymore. Like the brain is not able to think clear. But some do wake up from the trance and look for help and that is when we need to be there for them. When they are desperate for help.

Sad thing is all the damage a bad working brain and cognition does in ones life, bad decisions, bad relationships..... very unproductive. 

[Carne Cruda]

Yeah, what all you are saying is quite true (the"what? I cannot give up cookies and bread and the good stuff. What would there be left to enjoy? No I cannot." and the likes), but still...
Crohn, for G... sake, how much more motivation does one need?

The "funny" thing is that just recently somebody posted  this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2516913/Bride-25-intestine-removed-years-Crohns-disease-agony.html on the ZeroCarb facebook page.
Only the idea of an ileostomy bag (at 25) made me cringe.

I'd do more or less anything. Try, more or less everything.

[van]

One of the reasons that many won't change is,  that in changing diet and healing from that,  that person would then have acknowledge that he or she had created the problem in the first place.  By getting the 'bag' they can continue to eat the same way and blame it on genetics or environment  or a slew of other things ( which may have also contributed ).    I was that way with fruit,, Did Not want to think that I had eaten too much, or even that one could eat too much. 

[PaleoPhil]

Eric, good point about the "experts" and gurus--our new high priests. One thing that might help is if the people avoided most television commercials and popular daily news media, where they get fed a lot of the "expert" nonsense. Not many are willing to do that either, though. I think my own lack of a TV and newspaper subscription increased the chances I'd be open to RPD.

Another help would be if you can get them to read people who explain the expert problem and warn about avoiding it, such as Nassim Taleb. Unfortunately, he intentionally makes his message hard to follow so that only the truly interested will investigate and comprehend, whereas the critics and casual readers will give up or assume they understand it (when they don't really) and dismiss it (I recognized that if his critics truly understood his message, they would hate him even more, and he later said the same thing).

[LePatron7]

You are finally seeing it for yourself.  Most people are like your friend.  Even when sick they don't want to hear about raw meat.

They don't want to hear about supplements either. Even mentioning taking slightly more than the RDA's frightens some people. They're certainly believing what the experts are saying.

[ys]

I think it goes much further.  Only deaf has not heard that junk food is bad.  Yet, junk food industry is thriving. 

[Inger]

I was like that too Van. I loved my exotic, organic, tree ripened fruits so dearly I could never have given it up if I had not run into serious financial issues that made me have no money for those expensive fruits. I did not realize my teeth went bad... and my skin was not the best too. Supermarket fruits were no option for me.... so I figured Zerocarb was my next best option... and go figure... made me feel so great I never went back to fruit consumption...lol

A family's friend in Norway, a religious Christian too, had such bad Chron's for years she told my bro the doctor said she must get surgery and a "bag" on the outside of her belly too. I told my bro to tell her I know what might make her healthy - a raw meat diet only. I will do anything to help her. But guess what, she has not even considered it, but her answer was, she has tried everything (but of course not what I suggested) and she believed her doctor  who  said no diet will help. She is a young girl just a bit over 20 yo.


I think it is only  very special courageous people that are willing to try a RAF diet. People with an open mind and desperate for health.

[Projectile Vomit]

Wow, 20 years old and already considering major, life-altering surgery and wearing a poop bag for the rest of her life. Things like that just break my heart.

But yeah, not much you can do. I think the human species has acquired many generations of bad karma, and it seems like it's time to pay up.

[jessica]

Ew, I JUST read an article about a 22 year old who had the same procedure, they basically remove most of your intestines and you have a poo bag, that looks like a whoopee cushion, taped to your stomach for the rest of your life.

I think you guys get disheartened in helping others in the same way others find it impossible to change.  Instead of saying, "hey I have this totally radical diet that will change you life" (i.e. eating raw meat paleo) I think that offering up some suggestions like, "have you tried cutting out processed food/grains?" and then offering some very much more mainstream sources like whole9life.com or marksdailyapple.com that outline some dietary guidelines and also have a ton of scientific evidence as well as personal testimonials from those who have had issues with processed food/grains leading to crohns and other digestive and inflammatory disorders.  I think that incremental changes are the best way to start for those who have compromised digestion but are not sure where to start.  even suggestion a blood test to determine allergens can be a huge wake up call, then they have specific proof that what they are eating may not be in their best interest.

I totally understand where you guys are coming from though, I don't really talk much about how I eat or suggest things to other people in life, I just send them resources if they seem receptive and leave it up to them to put in the effort of delving further.