Tips for transitioning to raw paleo?

[lorelf]

Hi Everyone,

I tried a raw vegan diet (80-10-10) several years ago... I loved the way I felt on the diet, but it was impossible to stick to it.  I've recently decided to try a raw diet again, but I know that including animal products give me a better chance at long-term success.

I'd like to transition as quickly as possible, but am currently finding myself facing cravings.  I also just don't have the desire to eat much raw meat... I can eat about an ounce or two before I just don't want any more.  Ideally, I'll be eating a lot of fruit during the day with green juice, and then egg yolks and meat later in the day.  Should I just tough out the cravings and hope my appetite improves?  Would it be best to allow myself some cooked food and gradually increase the raw food over a period of time?  In terms of cooked food, which foods cause the least harm?  Potatoes, steamed veggies... what else is there?  I'm trying to stay away from grains as a rule.

Thanks for the advice, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to introduce myself!

Warmly,
Laura 

[nummi]

Some toughing out might be necessary, as your body, gut, and cells are still adjusted to your previous diet. Takes a little for them to get what's going on and readjust.

Some cravings might actually be because of lack of good water or minerals, and not (solid) food itself (there are many signs of dehydration, not just thirst; thirst rather shows you got late hydrating yourself). What water do you drink, how much?
And approximately how much minerals are you getting a day (especially magnesium and iodine - many have issues with these, or develop issues with them, generally very hard to get enough just from basic food).

A lot of fruit sounds like a bad idea to me. Personally I can get away with a lot of fruit for a few days, and rarely. If I go longer than that it will mess up my gut and body. Also depends on the fruits.
Fruits also promote eating throughout the day, as they digest rather fast and sugars in them are used fast. Sugars (in excess) also have an addiction-like effect. So the body will constantly ask for more - also an explanation for the cravings.

Definitely try to get raw animal fat. The diet can't work for long without this. Fat is very important.

Vegetables can be fermented. Basic sauerkraut recipe works for any vegetable, just replace cabbage with something else, or even make a mix.

You can go slow or jump right in, have to decide yourself what feels right. Jumping right in might take more/stronger toughing out.

[lorelf]

Thanks Nummi 

I am sure I could use more minerals.  I drink about 12 cups of water every day, sometimes more.  It is reverse osmosis water, and I use "Concentrace" minerals to remineralize it.  When I juice a lot, I definitely feel a decrease in cravings, perhaps it is due to the easily-absorbed minerals in the veggies.

I have been supplementing with magnesium glycinate for a long time, and have supplemented with iodine in the past.  Lately I've just been using Lugol's solution to drop some iodine on the skin and hope my body absorbs it.  I'm wary of taking it internally.

I am so used to a high-carb diet, it is difficult to know if my body actually does well on a lot of fruit, or if I am just addicted to sugar.  In the past, when I've tried a low carb diet, I always feel terrible.  However, that was on a cooked paleo diet, and perhaps raw paleo would make me feel better.  For raw animal fats, I'm going to see if I can get some bone marrow (delicious!) and also count on the egg yolks and fat in the meat I eat.

Thanks for the reminder about sauerkraut.  I have experimented with fermented foods in the past (I currently brew kombucha, but I guess that isn't technically raw or paleo).  I am going to get some sauerkraut going soon.

Could you describe a typical day - what you eat, how much, when, etc.?

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!!

[sabertooth]

I would advise against using concentrated mineral supplements, you should be able to find whole foods which would supply all your mineral needs. Currently I have been eating Dulse with my salads. Its a type of seaweed loaded with Iodine and other trace minerals.

Try to get a hold of some good quality fats, marrow is very easy to digest and is an excellent choice as a transitional food. Egg yolks and fatty meat are also very good.

I would use fermented vegetables sparingly until you are more aware of how well your digestion of raw meats are going. I will eat very small amounts of kimchee occasionally and it seems to promote my production of digestive enzymes very well, but I noticed if I eat too much it causes loose stools and bloatyness!

[eveheart]

I never "transitioned" to RPD, I just stopped cooking everything. I don't see anything wrong with eating an ounce or two of meat and then stopping when you don't want more. Our digestive tract adjusts quickly to changes - it does that all the time with the seasons and with availability of foods.

Quantifying diets (such as 80-10-10 or XX% of fat) was not practiced in the paleolithic era, and you can get along fine without it if you pay attention to natural body signals such as taste and satisfaction. You mentioned that you didn't feel well before on a low-carb diet, but there is no need to "do the math" unless you are trying to manage something like diabetes. On the other hand, if you feel that you are craving a particular food, look at how you are eating that food, and try to eat by taste and season (in a paleolithic manner). That would mean *not* eating fruit in the dead of winter unless that fruit would be around in your area, and *not* eating processed foods like juices and powders.

For me, RPD meant the end of trying to figure out what to eat. Sometimes, when I go shopping for food, I have to filter out what is not seasonal (such as avocados in the dead of winter), but other than that, RPD can be a no-brainer. What a relief!

[van]

I would advise against using concentrated mineral supplements, you should be able to find whole foods which would supply all your mineral needs. Currently I have been eating Dulse with my salads. Its a type of seaweed loaded with Iodine and other trace minerals.

  I used concentrace minerals for years, and see nothing wrong with them.  Most spring waters are loaded with ca. and very little mg. which is pretty hard to get in foods unless you try.  And then how often are you really going to eat that specific mg. rich food.  RO water, being devoid of any minerals means that your food source is it.  I too eat seaweed, sometimes do well with dulce, and others, but also try to find green leafies that I like and eat those as snacks often.    Seafood should take care of your mineral needs if you are lucky to find varieties that you like and eat it often.  I personally haven't been able to do that.

Try to get a hold of some good quality fats, marrow is very easy to digest and is an excellent choice as a transitional food. Egg yolks and fatty meat are also very good.

I would use fermented vegetables sparingly until you are more aware of how well your digestion of raw meats are going. I will eat very small amounts of kimchee occasionally and it seems to promote my production of digestive enzymes very well, but I noticed if I eat too much it causes loose stools and bloatyness!

[van]

darn, it didn't come through.  So again..  I used concentrace for years, and see nothing wrong with it, other than it being a non organically bound source of minerals.  Mg. is pretty hard to get in foods unless you really try, and then how often are you really going to eat it/them.  Sea weeds are great, so are good tasting green leafy greens.  I like the dark green leek leaves, have to be the dark thick ones though.   There are so many needs for mg. in the body that precaution in that area is a good idea.

[cherimoya_kid]

I smell troll.

On the off chance that lorelf isn't just DR or another raw vegan troll, I would suggest:

1. Fatty fish, like swordfish, escolar, orange roughy, etc..  ONLY wild-caught, fresh-never-frozen if possible. These are very tasty to many people when raw, especially with a little salt.

2. MODERATE use of avocados. I eat about 2 a day, on average.  Start with just 1/4 of one daily,  and slowly work up from there.

3. Small amounts of raw nuts/seeds. If you digest them well, this can be a good way to get some extra fat. Don't keep eating them if you can't digest them well. If you haven't eaten them in a long time, start with very small amounts.

4. Terramin and Pascalite clays are very good mineral sources, as are clams, oysters, mussels, scallops, and the guts of crabs/lobsters.

5. The best things for reducing cravings are minerals and fat. Since you have been doing low-fat for a long time, you will probably find it easier to slowly increase eating fat, instead of jumping right in.

[cherimoya_kid]

darn, it didn't come through.  So again..  I used concentrace for years, and see nothing wrong with it, other than it being a non organically bound source of minerals.  Mg. is pretty hard to get in foods unless you really try, and then how often are you really going to eat it/them.  Sea weeds are great, so are good tasting green leafy greens.  I like the dark green leek leaves, have to be the dark thick ones though.   There are so many needs for mg. in the body that precaution in that area is a good idea.

agreed.

[lorelf]

Thanks for the tips everyone. 

I'm sorry if I came off wrong.  I am a genuine person just trying to figure out the best diet for myself and become healthier... not a "troll."

I had some egg yolks today and enjoyed the taste more than I used to.  I also went shopping and bought some beef bones with marrow, beef liver, and more ground beef.  I'm feeling better about transitioning and having patience with myself.  It is true that I'm used to a low-fat diet, so it seems like a good idea to increase the amount of fat I eat slowly.  When I tried a higher fat diet in the past, I did enjoy the satiety that went along with it, and I'm looking forward to that again and hopefully finding a good balance with the food I'm eating.

[goodsamaritan]

I think the mental leap to eating raw red meat is the initial turn off.
So maybe you can go eat the more socially acceptable stuff first.
Like raw egg yolks, sashimi in restaurants, oysters, raw milk products...

I started with Wai Diet.  Fruits + egg yolks + various sashimi... after a few months I was tiring of just sea food and decided to try raw red meat.

[eveheart]

Well, I sounded like you before RPD - I even made spreadsheets to do my calculations because I wanted more "analysis" than most software provided. I think my "no calculations" approach is a reaction to years of getting the numbers right.

In a sense, I am more of a "dire warning" than a "shining example" of eating well - I was old and sick with many ailments before I started RPD, and I got that way eating the best low-fat, raw, sprouted, vegetarian diet you could imagine. Even so, I have seen most of my misery healed, and what remains amazes my doctor, things like perfect blood sugar labs without a single diabetes medication, and painless arthritis - no pain, despite severe joint deterioration in x-rays.

One tip I thought of when I read your post, (and you may already know this): a lot of meat/fish/poultry/eggs are sub-standard due to feeding practices. Substandard can show up as antibiotic-resistant bacteria, undesirable GMO traces, and so forth. Species-inappropriate feeding (feeding corn to beef and salmon) can make animals "toxic" in their own flesh. So, raw meat should be grass-fed, wild-caught, etc.

[cherimoya_kid]

I was going to make that point too, eve. Chicken basically can't be safely eaten raw in this country, unless you literally visit the farm and confirm that the chickens are free-range and not eating much grain. Pork can be safely eaten raw, but it's not worth eating, because of the universal practice of overfeeding grain to pigs. Buffalo is generally grassfed, and some beef is.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

If your uncomfortable with meat maybe ease your way into it slowly. I'm currently in the process of switching from cooked paleo to raw paleo.  Just this week I started making Spanish mackerel ceviche(only 5.99/lb wild caught), and started eating raw ground beef with egg yolks. I do great with avocados and Mac nuts as well.

[lorelf]

goodsamaritan - Yes, my mind hasn’t quite gotten used to the idea of raw meat yet.  I’m lucky that raw milk is readily available where I live (near Spokane, Washington) but unlucky because it doesn’t seem to agree with me!  I love the taste of it though.  The Wai diet is intriguing, and probably most similar to the approach I’m taking now, since I’m consuming a lot of fruit.

eveheart - It is encouraging to hear about your healing on the RPD.  My health deteriorated on a vegetarian diet too, compounded by a stressful lifestyle and some other issues.. symptoms of chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, etc… and I am only 30 years old!  I read (and followed) the Perfect Health Diet for a while, and they theorize that the body becomes sick for 3 reasons: 1. Nutritional deficiencies, 2. Toxins, and 3. Chronic infections.  I think eating a raw diet helps with reducing the toxin load, and including nutrient dense raw animal foods helps boost one’s nutrition.  So, I have hope that I’m on the right path here.

cherimoya_kid - Something about chicken always grossed me out, whether cooked or not.  Luckily, I love fish, lamb, and beef and am focusing on them.  I haven’t found much information about eating insects raw, but our ancestors probably did this a lot.  I wonder if anyone has experimented with this?

A_Tribe_Called_Paleo - I’m not uncomfortable eating meat if it is cooked, but raw is more difficult than I anticipated, for sure.  Raw fish is easy, I’ve had that plenty of times in Sushi restaurants.  I’ve considered searing my meat and leaving the inside raw (I always preferred my meat rare anyway).  Something about cooking the meat makes it feel heavier in my stomach though.  Even though I can only eat a couple of ounces raw meat so far, I am surprised that I don’t feel weighed down after eating it.  I found a recipe for “Steak Tartare” which consists of raw ground beef, raw egg, and some spices such as garlic, onion, ground mustard, and turmeric.  I ended up cooking it a little bit, but it was definitely close to raw when I consumed it!  It seems to help to have the meat a little bit warm rather than cold right out of the fridge.

[eveheart]

I’m not uncomfortable eating meat if it is cooked, but raw is more difficult than I anticipated, for sure. 

There's a "chew factor" with meat that took me some getting used to. What helped is creating my own physics of chewing, and how good it is for the facial muscles, ear canal, digestive juices, and subtle flavor receptors to experience chewing. With other foods, there is an end to all chewing, when the food is all broken down. With some raw meat cuts, you can be left with a wad of connective tissue in your mouth that "doesn't seem right" if you compare to cooked and vegetarian foods. Don't worry about it - the strong acidic gastric juices in your stomach are designed to break that connective tissue down.