Author Topic: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?  (Read 5276 times)

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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« on: February 09, 2014, 01:11:51 am »
Interesting article: Earliest human footprints outside Africa found in Britain

Seems to me this throws a bit of a monkey wrench into most all ideas of human history. I'm interested to see what comes from this line of research.

Offline 24isours

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 02:28:25 am »
Hey Eric, if you are interested in such topics you should check out this video...

Extraordinary Evidence that Dinosaurs Lived with Man - Dr. Don Patton (The Record of the Rocks)

He talks about the current flaws in properly dating fossils and brings forth a large amount of evidence humans and dinosaurs coexisted.
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 04:21:20 am »
Fascinating video, thanks!

Offline Iguana

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 04:43:08 pm »
See   The Texas Dinosaur/"Man Track" Controversy
and Google for « Don Patton Ph.D ». ;)

 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 09:43:08 pm »
Thanks for the link Iguana. Always nice to see both sides of the coin...

Offline raw-al

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 04:08:59 am »
The link you gave Iguana has that Quackwatch smell about it. No real proof, just bold statements. The type that Richard Dawkins likes to crow about.

Too many PPL have a finger in the evolution pie. Their egos and IQs would be challenged if they were really toppled.
Cheers
Al

Offline raw-al

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 04:12:55 am »
For the record, I do not necessarily go along with a Christian explanation. AFAIAC theories are theories. Heads of departments in Universities make them facts.
Cheers
Al

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 07:45:33 am »
All these should be termed hypothesis... None deserve to be called theory.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 07:55:39 am »
These various ideas are BOTH theories and hypotheses. Each term has a slightly different nuance, but both of them are suppositions.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 08:00:50 am »
Maybe wild guesses would be more accurate ;)
Cheers
Al

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 09:15:35 am »
My understanding about the terms are:

Postulate - absolute fact.

Theory - is something that is assumed correct until proven wrong.

Hypothesis - is an educated guess and will make further research / analysis / experiments to determine if it is correct or not.

Maybe there is a more appropriate word we are looking for?  Wild guess is funny but more likely, it's just that these "scientists" want to be taken seriously because they get serious money to make these guesses.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 10:03:31 am »
There's an inherent limitation in the natural sciences: we weren't there for past events, we aren't there for physically distant events, and we will not be there for distant future events. We find tiny shards of hard evidence and try to fit them into a bigger picture that we cannot see. Sometimes other factors limit the fit, such as when European astronomers had to fit all their observations into the church truth that the Earth was the center of the universe, or when creationists try to fit fossil evidence into the church truth that creation was about 6000 years ago. Point of view is not a bad thing. Everybody's got one. No biggie; it is what it is.

Quickie edit: perhaps the word you are looking for is conjecture.
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2014, 04:07:59 pm »
For the record, I do not necessarily go along with a Christian explanation. AFAIAC theories are theories. Heads of departments in Universities make them facts.

I’m afraid you’re rather wrong, Al: a scientific theory should never be confused with a fact. Wikipedia appears to be quite good on such topics:
Quote
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.[1][2] Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature—that is, they seek to supply strong evidence for but not absolute proof of the truth of the conclusion—and they aim for predictive and explanatory force.[3][4]

The strength of a scientific theory is related to the diversity of phenomena it can explain, and to its elegance and simplicity (Occam's razor). As additional scientific evidence is gathered, a scientific theory may be rejected or modified if it does not fit the new empirical findings, leading to a more accurate theory. In certain cases, the less-accurate unmodified scientific theory can still be treated as a theory if it is useful (due to its sheer simplicity) as an approximation under specific conditions (e.g. Newton's laws of motion as an approximation to special relativity at velocities which are small relative to the speed of light).

Scientific theories are testable and make falsifiable predictions
. They describe the causal elements responsible for a particular natural phenomenon, and are used to explain and predict aspects of the physical universe or specific areas of inquiry (e.g. electricity, chemistry, astronomy). Scientists use theories as a foundation to gain further scientific knowledge, as well as to accomplish goals such as inventing technology or curing disease. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[3] This is significantly different from the common usage of the word "theory", which implies that something is a guess (i.e., unsubstantiated and speculative).[5]

As Eric wrote, you can see now both sides of the coin. I’m curious what alternative explanation you suggest.

- Do you think humans were already there, walked barefoot amongst stegosaurs and brontosaurs  but mastered the fire, made pottery and cooked soups before the last dinosaur disappeared, about 65 million years ago?

- Or do you think dinosaurs were still roaming across continents at the beginning of the Neolithic era, about 10000 years ago?

- Or perhaps dinos didn’t disappear 65 million years ago, but about 32,5 million years ago and the beginning of the Neolithic is at least 3250 times older than the current estimate?  ;)
---------
PS: Most Christians, at least in Europe and the reasonable ones don't reject the evolution theory. Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was a prominent evolutionist philosopher and anthropologist.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 05:38:01 pm by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 07:30:32 pm »
That Teilhard character was one of the forerunners of the brilliant Transhumanist movement.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Homo sapiens in Europe 800,000 years ago?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 03:31:16 am »
Iguana,

My choice of words was possibly the issue.

What I was trying to say is that theories are not facts, however some PPL (in my example University professors) like to infer that things are facts and that anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. To set oneself up as an 'expert' is human nature.

Priests were supposedly guilty of this in days gone by.

I have no idea what dinosaurs were doing last week other than sitting in museums. I do know that PPL theorize their version of facts in order to make textbooks, as you cannot have confusing facts in a textbook. Problem is facts keep on changing.

When I was young they thought that there were maybe 1/2 million aboriginals in North America. Now the figures are up around 90 million. Pottery has been found in South America dated I believe to 20,000 years old.

I do not accept the word of the religious character in the vid or the word of the link in your post # 3.

Not because I think you or anyone else are not bright. I am not trying to insult. If my words come out that way I apologize.
Cheers
Al

 

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