Kosher meat wrongly sold as "normal" meat to non-Jewish outlets

[TylerDurden]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581918/Meat-cattle-slaughtered-cruel-kosher-ceremony-high-street-burger.html

The same sort of scam has happened with halal meat, as mentioned before.

[RogueFarmer]

I think people are insane. Stunning doesn't always work properly. I don't buy that animals blasted in the head don't feel pain. My friend blasted two pigs point blank in the temple. One went out like a light, the other one screamed and thrashed and spouted blood out of it's mouth like a fire breathing dragon. I much prefer Halal/Kosher style, the animal doesn't hardly feel anything, little if any struggle if it's done properly. I almost feel like the preference to stunning/shooting is coming from people trying to justify shooting animals or humans, guns in general.

Yeah that's the big problem though with selling Kosher is that you then have to sell all the other parts to somebody else to make any money.

[TylerDurden]

I don't buy the notion that kosher/halal is painless. For one thing, since the kosher/halal process is  more "manual", the chances of something going wrong are way more than otherwise. Doing something automatic such as electrocution of the brain via controlled machinery makes more sense. Besides, Jewish law actually REQUIRES the animal to be fully conscious - halal law sometimes allows an exception depending on the interpretation of sharia.

Whatever the case, it should be enforced that all meat be labelled as to how it was slaughtered beforehand - perhaps a green symbol for kosher meat and a red one for halal meat, so that we can avoid it if we want to. I certainly do not like the  appallingly inhumane aspects of kosher/halal slaughter but also really dislike the notion of being prevented from consuming the blood within the meat.

I note that the Danish government has forced through a law banning all  religious slaughter of animals, stating that animal rights come before religious rights.

[RogueFarmer]

Animal rights are inhumane. Animals are animals, not people. They are here for the betterment of ourselves and the natural world. Applying human emotion to the lives of animals is insane. It's a slippery slope. If you allow them to take one step forward they will take another. It's why we can't slaughter and buy horse meat, dog meat or cat. Thus we have a horrible problem in this country with horses, dogs and cat's being treated inhumanely, because there is no market for them and no convenient or logical way to dispose of them. The people who push these laws would make it illegal to raise animals. Sometimes they shut down perfectly good farms using the laws as a tool for harassment. You can only afford win so many court battles against zealots. It's all absurd. Having to own an electrical stunner makes slaughter uneconomical for families and small farms. It is an economic detriment. Even if it is supposedly totally painless, which is not provable, the animals must still be brought to location to have the procedure done which is actually the most inhumane aspect of the entire operation. They must be captured and hauled which is entirely capable of causing an animal to become ill. See "shipping fever" in cattle". Not to mention bruised and put in a state of panic before slaughter. In halal the animal is slaughtered right in the field. With a sharp blade, it is as close to painless as you can get. The animal literally does not even register that he has been harmed. He passes out from loss of blood in seconds. With an electrical stunner, struggle is inherent because of reasons already mentioned, it is rife with economic burdens.

What is wrong with pain anyways? Pain is a part of life. The animals probably should feel some pain, they are about to be consumed, it is totally unnatural for them to fell literally no pain. The only thing wrong with pain is a human emotion and a contrived anthropomorphism of animals.

It boggles my mind when I read about legalities in Europe. I always think we have it bad here in the states but wowzah laws are nuts over there. A dude tried to start a camel dairy in France and activists tried to stop him and while they failed it took him over a year for the govmnt to finally grant him the right.

Animals do not deserve rights, it's ludicrous. If anything in the world deserves rights it is the natural system and death and suffering are part of that. Animals deserve welfare, not rights.

[TylerDurden]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. The  appallingly bad treatment of animals by humans, with kosher/halal being just one unpleasant example,  is one of the main reasons why this planet is so f*cked up. It used to be that we had some respect for animals but now it is all human-oriented with psychotics shooting wild animals "just in case they might harm a human being " even when no such evidence is present and when in fact wildlife are routinely described, somewhat understandably, as being "terrified of humans". THE worst thing of all in recent times has been the automatic assumption that human life is worth more than animal life. Aspinall stated it so wonderfully:- he pointed out that genuine value is determined by scarcity etc. So when humans number  7 billion and gorillas c.50,000(?), then the value of any one human being in terms of a gorilla  is the equivalent of  50,000 divided by 7 billion  so the worth of a human life equals+c.0.00000714285 of  that of a gorilla - ie almost worthless.

[RogueFarmer]

Okay, rare wild animals deserve rights. But welfare is good enough for domestic animals and welfare for endangered animals basically means they should not be killed.

[RogueFarmer]

And i didn't say anything about human rights, I believe in "natural" rights.

[TylerDurden]

Rights for wild animals should also include sizeable habitable areas to live in, not just tiny zoos. And I would far rather eat meat from a domesticated or wild animal that has been treated well and fed its own natural diet than a factory-farmed one etc.

[ys]

I've seen how wolves and lions take on large prey.  They start ripping it apart while it is still alive.  I'd think manual slaughter is so much better. 

[TylerDurden]

I've seen how wolves and lions take on large prey.  They start ripping it apart while it is still alive.  I'd think manual slaughter is so much better. 

That's not true. What lions, wolves and most other carnivores do is to choke the windpipe of their prey  with their teeth. The animals are already in a state of panic, so it finishes quickly once the predator has a grip of the neck.

[RogueFarmer]

depends, cats will take out legs and hips to slow the animal down before they go for the neck, just going for the neck is suicidal with some animals. Komodo dragons take a bite and follow an animal around for as long as a month for it to die or get sick from infection. their mouths are so filthy that any bite leads to infection.

That's the thing though too, animal rights activists are so concerned about the animal not feeling pain but they will endorse animals raised in factories, as long as there aren't individual cages, gestation crates, certain specific practices they deem inhumane. They never get to the bare fact that no animals should be kept in barns the year round.

[TylerDurden]

I disagree, most animal rightists would either prefer not to eat animal food at all or they, like me, would far rather have their animals in the open air. Makes sense really. If you treat the animals well the meat will taste better.

[RogueFarmer]

you may disagree logically, but you should look at what the animal rights people actually do, i'm not making it up, a lot of them actually work to make blatantly inhumane animal production "more humane" and endorse certain practices. Perhaps they would rather have animals in open air, but that is not the results of their actions.  I'm not saying they all are but all the ones I have heard about are whackos. Like how peta kills 98% of the animals they "rescue"

[ys]

That's not true.

I clearly said I've seen it.  In one case lions took down a big buffalo.  Its neck was took thick to choke the windpipe.  Male lion was just holding it by the neck and the rest of them started ripping hind legs and opened its gut.  The poor thing was still alive, breathing and making sounds.

The other case was when wolves took down a bizon.  They managed to to get it down because bizon got too tired from bleeding and hours of standoff.  They started eating it while it was still alive.

Both cases were filmed by Nat Geo or something similar.  Don't remember anymore.  I've also seen how lions take down an elephant. 
Here is one where they start eating it while it is still kicking.  Lion Group bloody killing elephants