Is it possible to go about this diet without eating raw meat?

[healthyeater88]

I don't feel comfortable with eating raw meat unfortunately, but I still want to get benefits from the book's diet.
What do you suggest?

[healthyeater88]

Well to be honest I'm a little less bothered by eating raw fish but do I need to eat land animals to get the benefits?

[TylerDurden]

it is possible for some , though difficult for others. I, for example, do not tolerate raw eggs in large quantities and do not thrive well long-term on a diet of solely raw seafood and raw plant food.

I suppose if you have no problems with raw seafood or raw dairy or raw eggs(the latter 3 preferably coming from grassfed sources), then you could live off those. I suspect that, after some time, you will eventually become used to eating raw meats as well.

In my own case, I had problems eating raw meats because my teeth were so weakened from years of eating cooked foods that they were in danger of falling off. Leaving them to age for a while softened them up and made them easier to chew quickly and bolt down.

[goodsamaritan]

I started raw paleo diet with WAI DIET.

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/wai-dieters/

[Inger]

I think raw seafood is way way more important than land mammal meat.
I think one can have great health on a diet without meat but with lots of oysters mussels, fish... and eggs.

I myself eat more seafood as I do meat... and I eat my meat mostly in the form of organs.. mostly heart... and some liver.......

[cherimoya_kid]

I almost never eat meat. I do eat probably 3-4 pounds of fish/shellfish/roe weekly, and have been doing this for several years. Just make sure you're getting enough fat.

[healthyeater88]

I almost never eat meat. I do eat probably 3-4 pounds of fish/shellfish/roe weekly, and have been doing this for several years. Just make sure you're getting enough fat.

Exactly. Makes sense to me.
I just can't imagine myself eating raw meat.
But I love fish and seafood in general, so I'll be eating lots of that instead.
Thanks for your comment.

[cherimoya_kid]

Exactly. Makes sense to me.
I just can't imagine myself eating raw meat.
But I love fish and seafood in general, so I'll be eating lots of that instead.
Thanks for your comment.

you're welcome. Try to get some fish roe from time to time, it's extremely nutritious.

[eveheart]

CK, what roe do you buy?

[cherimoya_kid]

CK, what roe do you buy?

in order of most to least eaten--tobiko, salmon roe, whitefish roe, crab roe. Those are what I can easily get.

[eveheart]

CK, I'm going for the roe details now: which ones are you buying salted, which are frozen, and which are still in the animal? I love salmon roe and buy them "prepared" by sieving and salting. Dungeness crab season is starting here in California, do you ever find roe in live crab?

P.S. are you in California now?

[Joy2012]

I suppose if you have no problems with raw seafood or raw dairy or raw eggs(the latter 3 preferably coming from grassfed sources), then you could live off those. I suspect that, after some time, you will eventually become used to eating raw meats as well.

So Tyler you now accept raw grass-fed dairy as legitimate in paleo diet?

[cherimoya_kid]

CK, I'm going for the roe details now: which ones are you buying salted, which are frozen, and which are still in the animal? I love salmon roe and buy them "prepared" by sieving and salting. Dungeness crab season is starting here in California, do you ever find roe in live crab?

P.S. are you in California now?

I live in Virginia right now, although I've spent most of my years in North Carolina.  Tobiko I get prepared with the usual flavorings, because that's all that is available to me. Salmon roe I get the same as you. Whitefish roe same as salmon.  Crab roe usually same as tobiko (I think), but I can get Chesapeake Bay blue crab "roe" (really it's all the innards, including roe, I believe) in season. I've not had fresh roe straight from the animal ever, the closest would be the capelin roe I sometimes can get.

[goodsamaritan]

FYI I started this diet with wai diet, raw sea food and egg yolks... but after 3 months I was craving for more... and I found raw red meat and raw saturated fat to be just so awesome... I gorged on raw red meat for some 3 years until I think I topped off... and I went on minimal these days.

Try to read up on instinctive / instincto diet... find out what you have been missing and be ready to adjust and go with the flow.

[TylerDurden]

So Tyler you now accept raw grass-fed dairy as legitimate in paleo diet?

No, not really. However, I have come across a number of people who point out that raw dairy saved their lives. I have also come across plenty who have suffered a great deal from consuming raw dairy. I suppose, though, that my mindset has also softened a bit on this issue as, in recent years, I have experienced far fewer  immediate health-issues on the very rare occasions I consumed raw dairy. In the past, whatever raw dairy I consumed, I would immediately have to urinate a considerable amount, in an obvious attempt by my body to get rid of the stuff as quickly as possible. I don't have that symptom any more. The way I see it, people with very severe health-problems should avoid raw dairy altogether  as such people are more likely to have stronger allergenic reactions to raw dairy and other non-palaeo foods. People with few health-problems should experiment with raw dairy to see if it suits them or not, with an obvious caveat that health-problems are a possibility for some in the long-term even if they experience no issues in the short-term(eg:- osteoporosis etc.). Whatever the case, I find that very, very few thrive on raw dairy in large amounts in the long-term, so definitely still frown on Primal-Diet-style consumption thereof.

[TylerDurden]

Although, I have, over the years, managed to get hold of a great source of high-quality raw nutrients, I still get envious of people like CK who have access to raw fish roe and GS who has access to a staggeringly wide variety of fruits among other things. At the moment, I am nowhere near the sea, so I have to pay far too much for raw seafood which has , of course, been prefrozen. Raw fish roe is nowhere to be found, only  tins of pasteurised roe in supermarkets. Fruit-variety is also pretty bad. I mean , I would prefer it if I had access to a wide variety  of apples  or pears or bananas.

[jessica]

It's weird you assume that urinating after drinking something is a sign of your body trying to rid of that substance.  Is it possible that it was working to help balance out electrolytes and relieve the body of excess water retention?  I find raw milk is an excellent replenisher of bodily fluids causing neither bloating nor constipation and in fact relieving these symptoms for myself and others.  It also seems to help replenish the mucus membranes as well as the skin of much needed moisture and oils. 

Raw whey (and possibly the pasturized organic dairy that i was eating at the time) was one of the few things that stopped my teeth from degenerating further.  I believe raw dairy has been cruicial in rebuilding my bones from the degeneration that occurred during a 5 year period of low weight, low hormones, severe adrenal fatigue, excess psychological and physical stress.  I do not think I would be nearly as recovered if I did not have the vitamins and minerals made so readily available in raw milk.  It is my belief that raw milk always works to repair and build the digestive system and bones of the individual because its purpose to animals is to grow the digestive system and bones towards maturity.  Which to me would indicate that it contains substances that are also beneficial to repairing these systems.  It is true that some people have issues with digestion and assimilation but my guess is that some of this is psychosomatic, as well as caused by environmental stress and also due to other substances being put into the body that are hindering digestive repair.

[TylerDurden]

Milk is actually very bad for bones in the long-term:-

http://www.4.waisays.com/ExcessiveCalcium.htm

Re urinating:- not weird at all. I experienced excess urination soon after consuming raw dairy, no matter how hydrated I was. Plus, I would experience constipation, and later on,  an urge to vacate the bowels if I ate raw cheese. When I first experimented with raw dairy, I would routinely experience dry skin among many other ailments, which would increase in terms of frequency and quantity and variety until I gave up the raw dairy. As soon as I gave it up, my loosened teeth started to rebuild and get stronger, my chronic fatigue started to disappear etc. etc.

My point was, solely, that since I have long recovered from my past health-problems, that my initial, past  issues with raw dairy, years ago,  are either nonexistent or much-lessened PROVIDED that I do not consume it all that often or in quantity. If I ever went back to consuming raw dairy regularly for many months/years, with little or no raw-meat-intake, then I would end up with the past health-problems I had pre-rpd diet.

[ciervo-chaman]

I'm personally having an excellent experience with raw milk (always drinking it fermented, not more than 300ml / day - if I don't let it ferment for long, like 20 hs (25 Cº), its like addict, but when i let it ferment, it dont, i dont know why) and with a lot of cream.. i mean a lot.. 350 grms of cream / day (raw cream, pastured, from the farm of some old couple living 10km from here) and cheese made by me with the raw milk.

i was having problems in my mouth but since i cuted down all carbs (honey and fruit) i'm without pains again =)

i'm also having so great time going to poo, first time in my life i have 2 weeks straight of well formed (banana like) without constipation nor diarrea (but i can say is BECAUSE the dairy.. its just the diet i'm following right now.. with eggs and meat/fish [no more than 200 grms/day])

i liked this article (regarding calcium, bones, and hormones) from Ron Rosedale

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/06/25/ron-rosedale-healthy-bones/

[goodsamaritan]

Regarding raw dairy, I have not had success with raw milk from any animal.
I cannot find a steady enough in quantity of raw butter.
But I can and do get various raw cheese from a European delicatessen, and as Aajonus Vonderplanitz described, there is benefit in raw cheese.

[Joy2012]

i liked this article (regarding calcium, bones, and hormones) from Ron Rosedale

http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2011/06/25/ron-rosedale-healthy-bones/

That article is SO LONG. Since you read it already, would you please give a summary of what Rosedale said about grass-fed raw cheese in particular, If he mentioned it at all?

Tyler and others, thanks for sharing your views on raw dairy.

[Iguana]

Regarding raw dairy, I have not had success with raw milk from any animal.
I cannot find a steady enough in quantity of raw butter.
But I can and do get various raw cheese from a European delicatessen, and as Aajonus Vonderplanitz described, there is benefit in raw cheese.

Of course, one can find a benefit in everything: Tyler even thinks that a global nuclear war would be beneficial… LOL!

Seriously, anything that somehow feeds you provides a nutritional benefit, be it bread, raviolis, ice-cream or whatever usually considered as food. I wonder why there isn’t yet a discussion on the benefits of French-fried potatoes on this forum.   

[ciervo-chaman]

That article is SO LONG. Since you read it already, would you please give a summary of what Rosedale said about grass-fed raw cheese in particular, If he mentioned it at all?

Tyler and others, thanks for sharing your views on raw dairy.

roughly, it explains how bones are formed, what kind of "ingredients" are used by the body. I recommend you listening to it, or reading, if you want to learn, sometimes it takes time

it's not a talk about what foods make you good and what makes you bad, it goes a little bit deeper on how the body works.

he didn't say any specefic about raw grass fed cheese in particular that i can remember. even you can use the search function on the webpage to search by yourself.

what do you want to know about raw cheese? if it is "good" for forming bones? or if it good for eating ? or if you will die prematurely by eating it? or if rosedale "approves" it?

[ciervo-chaman]

I wonder why there isn’t yet a discussion on the benefits of French-fried potatoes on this forum.   

just wait! soon enough there will be someone saying is good to eat a little bit of french-fried potatoes because it have some special kind of RS that is uniquely found in fried potatos and nowhere else that gives you some special kind of nutrition that can't be get in any other way!!!! and it will have even "scientific" proof !!!! 

it's not a bad idea to eat raw cheese if it is good for you and you feel nourished with it, despite what everyone has to say, they have one thousand excuses and scientific works to say to you "dont eat that dont eat this, eat that!" if you hear people everyone will be defending his own diet.

I have even heard a lot of "centenarian" stories that they used to eat curd even until they died. you will even heard stories of people that is really sick "cause" dairy at 25 years old.

nobody is saying to you the whole story. people at 25 maybe used to eat 300 grms of some weird cheese from the supermarket, cooked in a pizza (when the cheese got the brown color), and maybe the centenarians were eating just 50 grms raw curd (and chewed it until it is totally liquid before swallowing)

it's not only what food..

[Joy2012]

what do you want to know about raw cheese? if it is "good" for forming bones? or if it good for eating ? or if you will die prematurely by eating it? or if rosedale "approves" it?

RIght. I want to know the scientific reasoning about raw cheese. I hope Rosedale is scientifically minded and so I could trust his view on raw cheese.

Some say dairy is good for bones. Others say it is injurious.

Some say if it is raw and you like it, it must be good for your body. Others say dairy, even raw, is addictive like opium. So obviously you cannot judge its goodness by how much you crave it.

Some say experiment for yourself and see if it does any good/harm to you. Others say the damages might not show until years later.