How are you able to substain this?

[Taz]

Just wondering.

Going to a dinner at a friends/family house? Sure you could bring your own but if you are visiting someone over the weekend? I like to travel. Is it even possible to do that with this diet? It isn't that easy to find a butcher that quickly that has good meat or even meat available. There aren't special stores in every town. Do you guys get sick on every trip if you go travelling? You can't exactly get a couple of pounds of meat on the airplane. And if you are travelling by car you would have to have a fridge installed that drains electricity/fuel.

[JeuneKoq]

That's when the Paleo logic of "eat what is available" comes to play. For eg, instead of restricting your main food choice to only animal foods, try and get fresh (preferably wild or organic) vegetables and fruits. It's almost guaranteed you'll find those where you're traveling.

[Iguana]

I traveled twice 8 months around the planet plus other travels from Switzerland to New Zealand, Tonga, Thailand, Indonesia and could always find raw “paleo” food and thus never ate anything cooked. As JK says, eat what is available: fish, shellfish, fruits, veggies, nuts, etc.   

[Alive]

You can take your own food on a plane, so long as you eat it or put it in the rubbish bin before going through customs at the far end.

[Taz]

I ment bringing food for the whole trip on the plane.

So if you go travelling, you go mostly vegan? I'm planning to go on a trip with a camper. Will not have a fridge, only a cool bag to go. I will go to some remote locations with no stores, also small towns with just supermarkets. Well i dont even know when going into a big city in a foreign country how to get ahold of quality meat. I dont want to spend my travelling days looking for where to buy food all day.

[Iguana]

So if you go travelling, you go mostly vegan?

No, I eat plenty of fish and shellfish. Where do you intend to go? You can store a lot of food in a camper van: dates, nuts, avocados, etc.

[Alive]

Next time I'm traveling I'll try meat and fish pickled in apple cider vinegar.
Last week I had a sliced lambs heart in ACV with two eggs, in a glass jar with rubber sealed hinged lid, my wife complained about me eating it in her company so it ended up being left in the back of a warm car for a few days and when I got around to eating it, it smelled the same. So this seems like a good way to store meat and fish - just rinse your teeth with water after eating so you don't dissolve them!
The vinegar acid will be good for those of us with suspected leaky gut, from parasites and modern food, which make it harder to sustain stomach acid levels.
(Also a good idea to rinse teeth after sweet or acid fruit)

[Iguana]

Where does this strange idea comes from that vinegar would be paleo ? How on Earth food dipped in vinegar could be paleo?

[eveheart]

Just as cooking meat denatures protein with heat, acids such as vinegar, lemon juice, and lime juice denature the meat with acid. Perhaps it's a gray area, some kind of cold cooking, but I'd lean toward saying that this type of cold cooking is not raw because the result is denatured protein - instead of raw because the temperature is not hot.

[cherimoya_kid]

Oh good gravy. LOL

STOMACH ACID is stronger than vinegar. I agree that it's not paleo, but I really doubt it's worse, health-wise, than light cooking. Granted, it will blunt the taste change, but not extremely.

[eveheart]

Oh good gravy. LOL

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to sound like the paleo police! I'm more into word definitions than telling anybody else how to eat. Just take my definitions and make your own decision. Ceviche is delicious and nutritious in its own right.

[cherimoya_kid]

To me, the concepts of rawness and the taste change do not overlap perfectly. A raw recipe with 15 ingredients will give a less noticeable taste change than a single steamed or even very lightly boiled food, for instance.

[eveheart]

To me, the concepts of rawness and the taste change do not overlap perfectly. A raw recipe with 15 ingredients will give a less noticeable taste change than a single steamed or even very lightly boiled food, for instance.

No argument about this! But then again, recipes are not paleo, either... 

[cherimoya_kid]

Next time I'm traveling I'll try meat and fish pickled in apple cider vinegar.
Last week I had a sliced lambs heart in ACV with two eggs, in a glass jar with rubber sealed hinged lid, my wife complained about me eating it in her company so it ended up being left in the back of a warm car for a few days and when I got around to eating it, it smelled the same. So this seems like a good way to store meat and fish - just rinse your teeth with water after eating so you don't dissolve them!
The vinegar acid will be good for those of us with suspected leaky gut, from parasites and modern food, which make it harder to sustain stomach acid levels.
(Also a good idea to rinse teeth after sweet or acid fruit)

Actually, you should NOT rinse acidic foods off your teeth. You're better off either eating something fatty right afterward, or swishing something basic and/or mineral rich (like Terramin clay, bone meal, or baking soda) in your mouth for a couple minutes.

[JeuneKoq]

Actually, you should NOT rinse acidic foods off your teeth. You're better off either eating something fatty right afterward, or swishing something basic and/or mineral rich (like Terramin clay, bone meal, or baking soda) in your mouth for a couple minutes.

You're probably right, but if you have access to relatively basic water, like this Icelandic brand they sell in European organic shops (ph 8+), you should be fine too.
The best solution of course is to not eat food that taste or feel too acidic at that time.

[TylerDurden]

Some rpders here make raw beef jerky out of grassfed meats by the kilos prior to travelling. I intend to do that as raw eggs are too breakable while travelling and other hikers have complained if I brought along any raw meats as the smell would eventually appear after some time, even if placed in sealed plastic boxes.

[dariorpl]

How is raw vinegar not paleo?

I personally hate the taste of vinegar, and much prefer lemon juice. But if you ferment fruits, honey, or even starchy vegetables, you can get alcohol, and from that you can get vinegar without anything modern added.

Also, doesn't our stomach acid denature proteins?

[TylerDurden]

I was always of the impression that raw vinegar was indeed both raw AND palaeo. I suppose it is in a grey area, though. I strongly recommend that if people buy raw vinegar, that they buy only those raw vinegar bottles with "mother of vinegar" in them.

[Iguana]

How is raw vinegar not paleo?

There was no way to make any significant amount of fruit juice in the Paleolithic. No animal makes and let ferment juices, it’s a Neolithic invention.

There might be a small amount of acetic acid in a rotting fruit, but it’s embedded in the whole fruit: this has nothing to do with pure vinegar obtained by a whole series of controlled processes in jars, barrels or whatever Neolithic/modern containers. An overripe fruit may be tasty if it contains a bit of alcohol, but acetic acid has generally a bad taste, which would probably in most cases prevent a mammal or hominid to eat a rotten fruit containing more than a tiny bit of acetic acid.     

[TylerDurden]

Monkeys and elephants are rumoured to deliberately eat rotten fruits in order to get drunk.

[eveheart]

One of the paleo/not-paleo concepts is based on the fact that watertight vessels were not yet invented. So, while vinegar and alcohol are a natural by-product of the decomposition of plant foods, having a bottle of deliberately made vinegar or alcohol is not something that our ancestors could do.

So, in the case of ACV, it would be available in the rotting fruit for a short period after the apple fell ripe from the tree. You could pick up an apple and ingest a vinegar-y fruit. If you wanted to eat as our ancestors ate, you would not be marinating your meat or vegetables in bottled vinegar.

However, if you wanted to eat ancestral-type foods processed with modern methods, you can splash ACV all over your plate. Heck, you could even bake a batch of paleo chocolate chip cookies and serve them with paleo cheesecake and paleo ice cream. It would be your personal and informed decision.

[dariorpl]

Why does it have to be air-tight? Any container would do for the fermentation process, wouldn't it?

And, wouldn't paleo people have learned to produce wine from fruits or starchy vegetables such as wild potatoes, or even more easily, mead from honey?

[eveheart]

Why does it have to be air-tight? Any container would do for the fermentation process, wouldn't it?

Depends on the microbe that causes the fermentation - some are aerobic, some anaerobic.

Any container would do for the fermentation process, wouldn't it?

I use canning jars in my kitchen. They are not paleo. In artifacts from the actual paleolithic era, containers have not been found.

And, wouldn't paleo people have learned to produce wine from fruits or starchy vegetables such as wild potatoes, or even more easily, mead from honey?

How can you "produce" wine when you have no vessel? Try it and get back to us. 

[Iguana]

Monkeys and elephants are rumoured to deliberately eat rotten fruits in order to get drunk.

Maybe there's there's a part of truth in that urban legend, but to get really drunk with fermented fruits, you would need to eat a lot of them, more than I could ever find  and eat, according to my own experience. Fermented fruits containing some ethanol can be delicious, but when they get rotten to the point where this alcohol has fermented one step further and turned into acetic acid, they're really bad - and eating them in view to get drunk would be pointless  because acetic acid won't do it!

I concur with Eve, she explained the point better than I could have done.

[TylerDurden]

How can you "produce" wine when you have no vessel? Try it and get back to us. 

Err, even in palaeo times they had vessels, such as animal skins bound together.