Are you sure that dairy isn't paleo?

[sabertooth]

Genetic expression and environmental expression are one in the same.

[cherimoya_kid]

I disagree a bit.
I think.... both

I'd say 80% genetics, 20% environment, on the dairy issue. That might change depending on how you define gut microbes, though.

[JeuneKoq]

Milk consumption has had the exact opposite effect on my teeth that Tyler Durden describes. I have tooth pain unless I drink milk regularly. My teeth were loose and in chronic pain until I started consuming it in a much higher volume than I had previously, at least 5 gallons a week.

I recommend dairy as a food for no other reason than it is economical and a good way to restore health in people with little money or means or squeamish about raw meat and especially organs.

RogueFarmer, do you have tooth pain shortly after you stop drinking milk? like a day, a week, a month without milk? Depending on this, it could mean you have a strong milk tolerance from drinking it often, which allows you to not feel too much -or no- immediate negative effects from drinking it. And so your tooth pain could be a sort of detox reaction from quitting dairy. Just speculating.

Have you tried getting off the milk for some time, and eating paleo foods that are rarely/never on the menu instead? Maybe you won't need to depend on milk anymore to regulate your teeth pain. Maybe the pain will leave for good.

Perhaps non-human milk is a sort of lower quality substitute to certain foods that are missing in some primal dieter's menu.

[JeuneKoq]

If you primal dieters want to continue drinking raw milk and dairy, you should really consider checking how the farmer you're getting the milk from treats its cows. It must be possible to get milk without harming the animal too much; unfortunately this video shows most of the time milk industry is quite the cruel business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI

(Just ignore the fact she's vegan)

[svrn]

none of that sob story applies to raw dairy farmers.

[svrn]

in regards to loose teeth. Iv been on half gallon a day for 4 years. My dentist is shocked by how solid my teeth are in my mouth. Also sats i have some of the healthiest gums hes ever seen.

[JeuneKoq]

none of that sob story applies to raw dairy farmers.

Please provide evidence or share personal experience meeting raw dairy farmers to back up your claim. Why would raw dairy farmers farm differently?

[svrn]

Amish farmers cant even use the technology to inflict the torture you see in this video. Most of the raw dairy producers in this country are amish.

This just isnt happening on the small raw dairy farms. THis is industrial farming.

Go read a book on organic farming. None of that crap is in the instructions.

[eveheart]

Most of the raw dairy producers in this country are amish....

What do you mean by "most" and "in this country"? I live in it, too, and I visit all sorts of farms and ranches, and I've never seen an Amish-owned dairy farm.

Go read a book on organic farming. None of that crap is in the instructions.

The many organic ranches and farms in this area are as mechanized as they can afford to be. Even back when I was growing up in the 1950s, when all diary was locally produced, the cow-side of dairy farming was highly mechanized, (however, the processing side still involved a lot of carrying buckets of milk around and pouring it by hand into the separator and pasteurizer).

Have you ever tried going without raw dairy? Perhaps your daily intake of milk is causing your troll-like thoughts and posts. I'd consider that a significant problem that might be helped with a change in diet, particularly a change that lowers inflammation, which can trigger irritating behavior. One clue that diet is the culprit may be that you have reported ongoing "detox" symptoms. What can be left to detox if your intake is not irritating you? After all, even in the most pristine ancestral scene, the quantity of milk that you drink on a year-round basis would be unheard of.  Also, your choice of cow's milk over smaller animal varieties is a totally neolithic concept. It would be a challenge at first, but I'm sure there's a mellow-er you somewhere, waiting to be liberated.

[svrn]

Almost all the farmers iv gotten my milk from have been amish. All the non amish iv used have not used any of the mechanical means described in the video if any, all milking was always done by hand.

I have been off raw dairy many times when I wasnt able to get access to it.

Speaking thoughts that one genuinely believes in does not fall into the category of trolling. Trolling involves argument whos purpose is to cause conflict.

What can be left to detox? Are you even serious? I live in enw york city. The chemtrails here are almost daily and extremely thick. Car pollution is massive. Im surrounded by emf waves everywhere I go. I carry a cellphone everywhere I go and work on a laptop very close to my body. I have been vaccinated and eaten much poisonous food throughout my life.

If you think 5 years of any diet will clean all the toxins out of ones body you are mistaken, we have all been heavily poisoned.

It took 4 generations of putting pottengers cats on a good diet to recover to normal health. THat was just cooked food toxicity. Human toxicity is far worse than just cooked food.

I am in possession of many case studies involving toxins being pushed out through the skin that were ingested DECADES prior.

ayou have no idea how mellow I am. People who know me in real life say that I have an extremely calm disposition. I havent been in a fight in 4 years, before going primal i would get into several physical altercations per year. Now people can get in my face and try to provoke me all they want but I neither yell nor fight them, and trust me this happens a lot, I live in NYC after all and am not a yuppie, I hang out in the streets a lot and interact with the dregs of society where violence is the norm more than id like, some of the places I go violence is common people try to get me involved but it simply doesnt work in situations where I would have definitely escaleted to violence in my past life.

DOnt confuse my calm disposition with lack of energy either, I never work out because I find it boring yet my body is in a state in which people are shocked to hear i never work out to point of being accused of lying. Keep in mind this is not genetic since I looked like a concentration camp victim in my sick days, including my raw paleo days before raw milk when I struggled to put on weight. Since I am in financial difficulties My calorie intake is only about 1600 a day yet I maintain my weight easily, I would be much stronger if i could afford more food and at 6'2" i should be eating double. When I am forced to do strenuous physical activity it is no problem for me despite my lack of exercise. Yesterday i sprinted for 4 blocks to catch a bus home, i kept up with the bus and caught it and wasnt even tired after.

[dariorpl]

Have you ever tried going without raw dairy? Perhaps your daily intake of milk is causing your troll-like thoughts and posts.

Or maybe your lack of dairy is causing your passive aggression, as JeuneKoq who has gone down to the point of citing vegan propaganda as proof that there's something wrong with our milk.

There's similar vegan propaganda out there trying to discourage people from eating all meats and eggs also, and even honey. Likewise for using leather or wool items, fur coats, feather pillows, etc.

First, not all dairy, meat and eggs are produced like that. Secondly, if that's what it takes to mass produce those for the masses, then that's what it takes. Animals have no moral status and our only concerns in breeding them should be to maximize product quality and minimize cost. Foods produced in ways like that shown in the video are typically cheap and low quality.

I wonder if radical vegans like these ever wonder about the conventional production of their beloved plant foods, and how people have to basically wear radiation suits when they spray them with toxic chemicals, or have resorted to carpet-bombing chemicals from planes, and anyone who happens to live nearby is permanently poisoned.

[svrn]

I notice on here its the big fruit eaters are that are most passive aggressive. Sometimes overtly aggressive.

Sometimes to the point of being like my hateful shadow, literally following every post I make to say Im wrong while tweaking out on sugar.

THis behaviour is very common in vegetarians and vegans as well. Raw vegans more than anybody.

Low carbers are usually the most relaxed, whether raw or not.

[cherimoya_kid]

I notice on here its the big fruit eaters are that are most passive aggressive. Sometimes overtly aggressive.

Sometimes to the point of being like my hateful shadow, literally following every post I make to say Im wrong while tweaking out on sugar.

THis behaviour is very common in vegetarians and vegans as well. Raw vegans more than anybody.

Low carbers are usually the most relaxed, whether raw or not.

Eve eats very little fruit. I eat a lot. We are the ones most likely to respond to you. How does that fit your theory?

[svrn]

eve isnt agressive at all. You are.

Her tone is of gentle suggestion. Sabertooth also disagrees with me sometimes but he is never aggressive.

The other aggressive person is iguana who also eats tons of fruit. To be fair goodsamaritan is not aggressive, i dont know how much fruit he eats but I think its a fair amount. It might because he doesnt eat as much fruit as you guys or because hes philipino and genetically able to handle more fruit whereas northern europeans like us can not. It could also be due to a personailty characteristic of a very high level of open mindedness that drives him to revel in diversity within the raw animal food diet spectrum and steering away from saying any one way is best.

Who are the most unquestionably aggressive and tweaky hyper people in the world of different diets? Raw vegans, with fruitarians being absolutely batshit insane. Compare that to the low carb people, always very calm and collected. Looking at youtube videos will confirm this very easily.

[cherimoya_kid]

Sure, eating low-carb is very calming. That doesn't mean it's much more workable in the long-term. Many have gotten quite sick trying to be low-carb or zero-carb beyond the point of diminishing returns. And I'm not sure I care if you find me aggressive. In person I'm far more gentle. Nutrition just happens to be a hot button topic for me. I get worked up about it. Is that a problem for you?

Dude, most people just don't respond to you because you yourself are too aggressive and ignorant. You act like an alpha around here, but your knowledge level is nowhere near that of any of the mods or most longtime members. I am the only reason you weren't banned years ago. That's what makes your attitude toward me especially funny. LOL

[cherimoya_kid]

But please, keep quoting Aajonus as if he was God himself. It discredits the stupid things he said in exactly the way they need to be discredited.

[svrn]

Not workable in the long term? Tell that to the Eskimos, Masai, Nenets, Neurs, and countless others. Lowest carb always had the lowest levels of cavities in weston prices research as well by the way.

Il be coming out with a presentation soon full of tons of original research. Youll see that Iv discovered plenty of stuff Aajonus hasnt on my own.

Funny how you hate Aajonus, hes healed more people on this diet than anyone else, mostly terminally ill patients. Who else has thousands of testimonials from the people they cured, and hundreds more letter testimonials he didnt even get to open before he died.

I know a guy who had lou gherigs disease disease, it kills 98% of people within 3-5 years everyone else is totally paralyzed. Hes completely health now, even had a kid. Show me any other diet thats ever cured lou gherigs disease, and I mean CURED not trudging on for another 15 years in a wheel chair unable to talk. He says he fully owes his healing to aajonus, erhaps il post his full story in the testimonial section if he says its ok.

I know you feel intense hatred for him for some reason but nobody else had a track record even close to his. Neuroscientist Dr. Elnora Van Winkle confirmed that he had a 96% cancer cure rate, who else can show those numbers? And she was instincto not primal!

Most importantly I would have no problem sticking to strict "paleo" dogma, however as long as people are promoting things such as chemical supplements, cooked teas, and magic electronic gizmos I find it completely unfair that i get attacked because I think dairy and vegetable juice are healthy, things which are far closer to raw paleo than supplements tea or gizmos. Furthermore I provide citations for my claims probably more than anyone else here. So i really dont see the problem.

Getting worked up is only a problem when rudeness,name calling, and threats come into play. What I say is far closer to paleo than many things people say here with impunity and I find it inappropriate that I am being singled due to hatred for the person who saved my life.

Just wait a week or so, youll see plenty of research Iv done myself, not from aajonus that backs up much of what im saying, maybe you can save your personal insults for the thread about that once it happens rather than turning this forum into a boxing ring.

[cherimoya_kid]

Damn, you're good at discrediting yourself.

And those "low-carb" societies aren't all that low-carb, except for the Inuit, who have larger livers to handle all that protein and lack of carbs. Or did you not know that? LOL

[ciervo-chaman]

I'm looking forward to your research svrn!

I also think here are some people trying to discredit aajonus without reason.

I don't think no one of members here that claim to be so knowledgeable are symptom free on their lives. Just reading their posts reveals that they are still healing. And they deny it.

Personally.. After so many DETOX from doing lots of dairy and all this primal diet i'm every week more confident and convinced that i'm actually healing. I feel better and better as time is going on. I do tnx to have raw dairy on the healing.

I love dairy. Calming. Relaxing. Makes me happy and to be happy with other people. When i compare that to when i ate fruit eggs and meats (no dairy) i feel more sociable now. I don't hate so much anymore.

The confusing subject i think is the 'symptom' thing. Is having a 'disease', a good or a bad thing? Cause people judges milk from that point of view mostly. Cause eating dairy cause 'symptoms' , so dairy is bad.

You can see it as your body being sick by the food itself, or the food 'pushing' toxins or low quality tissue (being replaced) on the body.

And the personal view on symptoms and sickness is what makes every one have some foods and don't have anothers.

I personally think and BELIEVE that primal foods (meat eggs dairy honey juices) do 'push' and replace old garbage tissue on my body.
This belief is backed up by an increased state of wellbeing. Never i am feeling worse than before. I can be really wrong. Time will tell. Also i can be 'delaying' the healing. I don't know. I will love to know someone that NEVER gets a symptom or sickness and that have a perfect functioning body.

I'm very grateful to aajonus. Great researcher. Had teach so much. And some subjects it had take so much personal experimentation to understand it.

[svrn]

My history is well documented on this forum. I spent quite a bit of time following peoples advice on this forum and it  helped me a lot wasnt getting me the results I needed. Only when I went primal, through someones suggestion on here, I forget who it was, did I start experiencing intense healing. And that dosnt mean just following the first two books, it involved going deep into the later works to get the advice he discovered later and published in his q&a's dvds and newsletters to figure out how to get past my perceived dairy intolerance.

In regards to the symptom thing. I got it regularly in the beginning too. I pushed through that phase of a period of sickness then afterwards I felt intensely better than I did before I went through that sick period. If you push through it it gets so much better. Now I feel incredible 97% of the year with a detox about once a year, usually the same time in winter. Now I get intense detox symptoms when I eat eggs which I had no problem with before which I will power through when I can take time off to be relatively incapacitated from the eggs I will be consuming.

I feel incredible even though Im not drinking my vegetable juice or coconut cream and am basically eating just beef year round due to my financial situation, when I do the juices 3 times a day and eat a large variety of meats with lots of fish i feel beyond incredible almost to the point of constant euphoria. My diet is far from perfect right now, but when it is perfect primal the feeling is quite intense.And when I say perfect there is so much more to it than the first two books, when you get into the q&a's on the website or the dvds or newsletters you see all of the new information that brings everything to a truly new level.

[svrn]

Damn, you're good at discrediting yourself.

And those "low-carb" societies aren't all that low-carb, except for the Inuit, who have larger livers to handle all that protein and lack of carbs. Or did you not know that? LOL

i guess you never read nutrition and physical degeneration. Or maybe you a new theory about how weston a price is a fraud weston a price made everything up.

I left out the canadian indians by the way.

[cherimoya_kid]

A swing and a miss. I'm the biggest Price fanatic on this forum. It was his book that changed me from veganism to omnivorism. Specifically, the part where he points out the rate of cavities being 13 times higher in the Kikuyu versus the Masai. I compared that with all the teeth problems that raw vegans have on largely fruit diets, and I've been eating raw seafood (and sometimes raw meat)  pretty much every day since. That was about 14 years ago.

A swing and a miss, boy, a swing and a miss.

[svrn]

Please cite the book pointing to where any of the tribes I listed eat anything but zero to minimal plant foods for the vast majority of the year.

Upon double checking my notes. Eskimo have no plant foods except briefly in the year some berries. Canadian forest indians are meat only. The masai warriors called moran are permitted to eat only meat and milk for at least 15 years. The nenets almost eat no plant foods.

ALso I left out the sami tribes who eat no plants most of the year.

who are your examples of people who did terribly on low carb on this forum? Lex? His diet was horrible, he ate nothing but cow muscle meat for years a large portion frozen I believe, a terrible diet. Any tribes that were were cattle herdsmen men always had copious amounts of milk and blood as well, what he did was very unnatural.

[cherimoya_kid]

Lex actually does fine, he's our lowest-carb and longest low-carber. Here's the difference between me and you--I know that Lex eats an organ-and-muscle-meat mix, and has for many years. That's a big reason why he's successful. And the fact that you didn't know that is an example of the difference between us.

The anecdotal evidence on this forum is of extremely high value, but you're too busy strutting around telling us how ignorant and stupid we are to actually dig deeply into it and learn it deeply enough to be able to call upon it immediately when needed.

I've read basically every post on this forum for the last 8 years, and I can instantly draw on all that knowledge, because I care about the topic so deeply that it all sticks in my brain.

Also, milk is not at all low-carb.


Also, here's a list of people who did badly on zero or low-carb and had to back off it to whatever degree--

1. Geoff
2. PaleoPhil
3. Yuri

The list goes on, but it's such a common thing that I don't pay attention to it any more. Those are just the most notable examples, which you would be aware of if you had the deep knowledge of the forum posts that I do, boy.

Recognize my superior level of knowledge, and do more shutting up and less strutting. Please. You're just embarrassing yourself.

[svrn]

Before I left lex said he was in an incredible health crisis and was questioning the idea of a raw diet at all. Im not sure what hes up to now.

Low carb diet without blood or blood and dairy is historically unprecedented and is a large part of why many low carbers fail.

After all the heavy cream I add to my milk and after it goes sour there is very little sugar in it. While it has a lot of carbs when fresh, it has very little lactobaillus in it, i forget what the protein and fat digesting bacteria in it are but it is in the extreme majority. Once the bacteria are done with it becomes very bitter the amount of utilizable fat and protein far outnumber the sugar after that process. Milk is not emant to be drank sweet and fresh, the traditional way all peoples have drank it is unfrigerated and sour, not sweet and cold, it is the wrong way to consume dairy.

Why are you unable to properly read weston prices work if he is such a hero of yours? The tribes I listed according to him eat almost exclusively animals.

You are so superior. Would you like me to stop thinking for myself and bow down to you?

Your getting worked up from all that sugar. Careful or you might pop a blood vessel.

Il stop posting my ideas when other people stop promoting supplements, tea, and gizmos and stop posting anti primal stuff in the primal diet section. I dont think they should be forced to stop posting that stuff but if you think I should stop posting my ideas, shared by many people who have been on a raw animal food diet longer than anyone on the forum, then its fair that other people should stop posting their anti raw ideas with impunity as well. Not that I think they should.