Humans are a hybrid with Chimpanzee Female mating with male Pig says Geneticist

[goodsamaritan]

Ha ha, geneticist getting into this game because the other hypotheses are unsatisfactory!   

- Dr Eugene McCarthy points to features that distinguish us from primates
- He says that the only animals which also have these features are pigs

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2515969/Humans-evolved-female-chimpanzee-mated-pig-Extraordinary-claim-American-geneticist.html#ixzz3UpgRa4ha
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Geneticist's interesting website http://www.macroevolution.net

Lots of hybrid examples there...

Let's get this debate rolling... Read the links first.

[goodsamaritan]

Here is one of the rebuttals against this hypothesis:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2013/12/yes-you-share-a.html

Another critic:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/occams-corner/2013/dec/04/theory-chimps-pigs-hybridisation

And another critique:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/07/02/the-mfap-hypothesis-for-the-origins-of-homo-sapiens/

[goodsamaritan]

Unsurprisingly, Dr McCarthy's hypothesis has come in for substantial criticism from orthodox evolutionary biologists and their Creationist opponents alike.
One important criticism, which dubs his theory the 'Monkey-F******-A-Pig hypothesis', is that there is little chance that pigs and chimps could be interfertile. The two orders of creatures, according to evolutionary theory, diverged roughly 80million years ago, a ScienceBlogs post points out.
'[J]ust the gradual accumulation of molecular differences in sperm and egg recognition proteins would mean that pig sperm wouldn’t recognize a chimpanzee egg as a reasonable target for fusion,' PZ Myers writes.
Furthermore, the blogger explains, while chimps have 48 chromosomes, pigs have just 38.
He adds: 'Hybridizing a pig and a chimp is like taking half the dancers from a performance of Swan Lake and the other half from a performance of Giselle and throwing them together on stage to assemble something. It’s going to be a catastrophe.'
Finally, he suggests rather impudently that Dr McCarthy do the experimental work himself and try mating with a pig to see how far he gets.
But Dr McCarthy believes that, in the case of humans and other creatures, his hybrid modification to evolutionary theory can account for a range of phenomena that Darwinian evolution alone has difficulty explaining.

Tyler quoted...

My take is...

If the timeline we are talking about is millions of years ago... the hybridization event... it would be too assumptive for us to think it was just plain Monkey Fucks Pig...

... stretch your imagination to millions of years ago... is it not possible that some intelligent beings DID the hybridization act?

... just look at 2015 current genetic technology!

... are you assuming our 2015 tech is the PEAK of technology on EARTH?

... is it NOT POSSIBLE some other CIVILIZATION was intelligent or MORE SO than us humans today in 2015?

[TylerDurden]

This von daenikenesque  stuff has already been extensively debunked long ago. GS, you may have too much time on your hands.......


We really need some rigorous scientific analysis of what we believe in to make us more mainstream. I am, quite frankly, proud of the fact that so many modern scientific studies  back  up our raw, palaeolithic diet in various ways.

[goodsamaritan]

This von daenikenesque  stuff has already been extensively debunked long ago. GS, you may have too much time on your hands.......

We really need some rigorous scientific analysis of what we believe in to make us more mainstream. I am, quite frankly, proud of the fact that so many modern scientific studies  back  up our raw, palaeolithic diet in various ways.

Well double ha!

So indeed you are assuming that 2015 is the pinnacle of human civilization / Earth technology!

How much GMO and hybrids have humans done in the past 12,000 years?

How long has human civilization been in existence?  How long have humans been on this earth?

A few hundred thousand years from now... a few million years from now... what / how would our GMO / hybrid handiwork look like?

What number / kinds of past high tech civilizations had been eliminated by past earth catastrophes like giant floods, pole shifts, asteroid collisions, orbit shifts?  I don't know... nobody knows.

What I disagree with is us assuming that 2015 is the peak of any civilization / technology on this planet.

How many human reboots have happened?

How many intelligent species reboots have happened?

You are saying aliens had never ever visited this planet?

Duh... of course all is possible.

In a long enough time line anything is possible... hundreds of thousands of years... millions of years...  tens of millions of years... is a lot of time.

[TylerDurden]

if aliens had ever visited our planet ages ago, they would have long ago wiped out our ancestors before they ever got  intelligent enough....

[JeuneKoq]

if aliens had ever visited our planet ages ago, they would have long ago wiped out our ancestors before they ever got  intelligent enough....

Why?

[TylerDurden]

Why?

Because we would have been seen as an eventual threat.

[Iguana]

So, now you can not only read into JeuneKoq’s mind, but in whatever extraterrestrial aliens’ mind! Some time ago, I posted in response to your arguments on this topic a paper of James W. Deardorff published by the Royal Astronomical Society, but you don’t seem to have taken notice. Here it is, again: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1986QJRAS..27...94D&db_key=AST&page_ind=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES


Anyway, GS, if there had been human civilizations since several millions years ago, they would certainly have had discovered how to master and make fire at will and thus would have cooked at least some of their food and gone into agriculture and animals’ domestication. That’s an unavoidable inference since a civilization without fire mastery and without agriculture wouldn’t be a civilization in the way we define it.

Therefore, if our ancestors had been eating cooked food, cereals and dairy for several millions years, we would be adapted to those foods much better than we are and there wouldn’t be much point in a raw paleo diet. Mind you, the raw paleo theory relies on some form of the evolution theory. 

[TylerDurden]

We can reasonably assume that aliens will have the same goals as we have re elimination of possible rivals! The link you gave forbids any access, but I have read other links  via googling and they merely show that Deardorff merely gives some claims as to why aliens might allow us first contact after a very long time. The trouble with this hypothesis is that it is just another example of human hubris wherein humans imagine that their own species is so important that other sentient species actually care about their existence.

[JeuneKoq]

We can reasonably assume that aliens will have the same goals as we have re elimination of possible rivals!

I disagree.

If humans came into contact with less advanced alien lifeforms, would their first thought be to destroy them because they might be "possible threats"? Or study them, let them evolve in their environment, like ornithologist do with birds?

Would we humans even pause a threat to an alien civilization that is probably hundreds of thousands, even millions of years ahead of us in terms of knowledge and technology?

Would they not be simply interested in observing our evolution, our development as a relatively intelligent earthling specie?

You can either have a very pessimistic view on the matter, or a more optimistic one.

I saw this show once where they talked about people's account of aliens visiting them. These people where declared sane by psychiatrists. There was this one account when several people witnessed aliens visiting their school. The aliens telepathically told this girl something in the lines of "take care of the environment, stop pollution". So it would seem that at least some type of alien beings are actually trying to help us, guide us to a brighter future... If these aliens really do exist.

[JeuneKoq]

There's the part of the show "experiencers" :

Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children

[Iguana]

The link you gave forbids any access,

I can perfectly and freely access all the pages (94 to 101) of this remarkable paper.

[Iguana]

If humans came into contact with less advanced alien lifeforms, would their first thought be to destroy them because they might be "possible threats"? Or study them, let them evolve in their environment, like ornithologist do with birds?

Would we humans even pause a threat to an alien civilization that is probably hundreds of thousands, even millions of years ahead of us in terms of knowledge and technology?

That's absolutely obvious to me. Tyler, you've read too many science-fiction books and you ignore factual research! The rational way would be to check the facts before theorizing instead of going into wildly speculative and hypothetical  theorizations while ignoring the known facts.

[TylerDurden]

It is logical to assume that more technologically advanced aliens would want to wipe us out, as this is what has happened throughout our human history. To assume differently, one would have to assume wholly alien civilisations on wholly alien water-free planets etc. which are unlikely to exist.

The delusions of UFO "abductees" are irrelevant. I once read, for example, that there were many mixed-race couples featured among fake so-called UFO  "abductees", the idea being implied that mixing races wouldn't seem so alien if confronted with the notion that there are even weirder, more alien extraterrestrial species from other planets out there. The crop-circles have already been debunked by farmers who came forward to admit that they had faked those crop-circles themselves, and so on and on......

[Iguana]

There's the part of the show "experiencers" :
Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children

Thanks for that very impressive video! I did read the book of this psychiatrist MD John E. Mack about 20 years ago. A flabbergasting book, I could never sort out what to conclude from it and several other books I did read on the same topic.  Now, I'm glad to have seen him and listened to him thanks to this video.

[Iguana]

It is logical to assume that more technologically advanced aliens would want to wipe us out, as this is what has happened throughout our human history. To assume differently, one would have to assume wholly alien civilisations on wholly alien water-free planets etc. which are unlikely to exist.

The delusions of UFO "abductees" are irrelevant. I once read, for example, that there were many mixed-race couples featured among fake so-called UFO  "abductees", the idea being implied that mixing races wouldn't seem so alien if confronted with the notion that there are even weirder, more alien extraterrestrial species from other planets out there. The crop-circles have already been debunked by farmers who came forward to admit that they had faked those crop-circles themselves, and so on and on......

Yet, you're again wildly speculating on the base of the preconceived ideas you stick to without even caring to check the facts.

[TylerDurden]

Yet, you're again wildly speculating on the base of the preconceived ideas you stick to without even caring to check the facts.

I was indeed basing my ideas from facts. Such as the fact that the dominant lifeform on this planet has made sure that less successful types should fail.  You have also wholly ignored the Great Filter theory which  excellently explains why no aliens have ever visited us. Your appalling human hubris lies in the assumption that organic, advanced  sentient species would a) be able to cross over to other solar systems and b) be interested in communicating with "lesser" species.

[JeuneKoq]

It is logical to assume that more technologically advanced aliens would want to wipe us out, as this is what has happened throughout our human history.

It is absolutely not logical, but obviously nobody is going to change your opinion. Hopefully aliens will...
Also, it is foolish to compare human's supposed behavior with that of a non-terrestrial, presumably much more technologically advanced civilization. It's probably closer to comparing an ant with a pig, than a dog with a wolf. And even then!

To assume differently, one would have to assume wholly alien civilisations on wholly alien water-free planets etc. which are unlikely to exist.

?

The delusions of UFO "abductees" are irrelevant. I once read, for example, that there were many mixed-race couples featured among fake so-called UFO  "abductees", the idea being implied that mixing races wouldn't seem so alien if confronted with the notion that there are even weirder, more alien extraterrestrial species from other planets out there. The crop-circles have already been debunked by farmers who came forward to admit that they had faked those crop-circles themselves, and so on and on......

Believe what you want...I think there are fantasies, and I think there are also genuine accounts, where people have waited years in fear that they would be labeled crazy before telling what they experienced... But I'll never be either in total denial, or totally convinced before I actually meet some.

[TylerDurden]

It is naturally reasonable to assume that the same processes that enabled human evolution would enable alien evolution. The alternatives, such as silicon-based-evolution on other extraterrestrial worlds  are too unlikely to ever happen.

Here is a far more scientifically-accurate explanation for the UFO abduction claims:-

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html

[JeuneKoq]

Thanks for that very impressive video! I did read the book of this psychiatrist MD John E. Mack about 20 years ago. A flabbergasting book, I could never sort out what to conclude from it and several other books I did read on the same topic.  Now, I'm glad to have seen him and listened to him thanks to this video.

Your welcome, Iguana  I actually realize I have the dvd of the show at home. It's a French production from Stéphane Allix who works -or used to work- for M6, and now does his own documentaries on paranormal phenomenons. He tries to back up his topics with as much credible accounts, rational facts and expert approval as possible, so as to convince the usually skeptical public of the reality of these experiences. Of course, it is slightly dramatized, as all public shows are these days  The show is called "enquètes extraodinaires".

[Iguana]

I was indeed basing my ideas from facts. Such as the fact that the dominant lifeform on this planet has made sure that less successful types should fail.  You have also wholly ignored the Great Filter theory which  excellently explains why no aliens have ever visited us.

A theory which explain why something has not happened is completely worthless if that something is constantly happening ! Just like the obsolete ridiculous theory that said there can be no meteorites because there’s no stone in the sky.

Your appaling human hubris lies in the assumption that organic, advanced  sentient species would a) be able to cross over to other solar systems and b) be interested in communicating with "lesser" species.

No.
I’m not assuming anything. I’m just curious about this topic without being able to draw any definitive conclusion. I don’t know.

BTW, could a mod split this topic or at least change its "... Fermale..." title ?

[JeuneKoq]

It is naturally reasonable to assume that the same processes that enabled human evolution would enable alien evolution. The alternatives, such as silicon-based-evolution on other extraterrestrial worlds  are too unlikely to ever happen.

This doesn't support your idea that highly intelligent aliens would somehow act like the most barbaric form of humans in any ways.

Here is a far more scientifically-accurate explanation for the UFO abduction claims:-

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html

I read your link, and it is just assumptions that these people's witness aren't valid because they may or may not have been in sleep paralysis... It's possible, but IMO not systematic.
And what can be said about the ones that were experienced while awake? Or in mass?

Did these kids in the video want their 10 minutes of fame, so they set up this story together? Or they were all drugged on some toxic gas leaking from the school cafeteria, and together hallucinated the whole thing? Who knows...

[TylerDurden]

A theory which explain why something has not happened is completely worthless if that something is constantly happening ! Just like the obsolete ridiculous theory that said there can be no meteorites because there’s no stone in the sky.

It is not constantly happening. The evidence for that is vague  and lacking in credibility, with alternative sufficient, perfectly logical explanations being given for all UFO sightings.

No.
I’m not assuming anything. I’m just curious about this topic without being able to draw any definitive conclusion. I don’t know.

The whole point is that any species able to cross interstellar distances obviously has no credible reason to hide itself, yet  still show  vague hints  of itself via strange lights in the sky. Obviously, such a species would have the technology to hide itself  completely if it even wanted to hide, that is.

[TylerDurden]

This doesn't support your idea that highly intelligent aliens would somehow act like the most barbaric form of humans in any ways.

I mean that, for a species to become the most dominant species on its planet(or group of solar systems for that matter) it has to have a highly competitive spirit. Look at our species for example:- sure, there are lots of people who are pacifistic and who love animals, but this isn't  remotely stopping the wholesale slaughter of wildlife and destruction of the environment, which is still continuing en-masse.

I read your link, and it is just assumptions that these people's witness aren't valid because they may or may not have been in sleep paralysis... It's possible, but IMO not systematic.
And what can be said about the ones that were experienced while awake? Or in mass?

There are various explanations given for UFO abduction stories. One is fraud(eg:- crop circles), the other is sleep-paralysis, still others might be due to psychotic delusions, trance states, drugs, alcohol etc.

 Come to think of it, psychiatrists have managed to implant completely convincing but false memories of sexual abuse into their patients:-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome
so it is possible for people to have false memories.
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