Aajonus - gallbladder/pancreas pain - eating raw glands to heal glands

[marcuspaleo]

Great post Sabertooth. The more Ive thought about and researched it, particularly in light of my understanding of history and evolution, Im convinced that to obtain optimal health you must occasionally eat the whole animal, especially if you have a health problem that requires specific nutrients from specific glands. Its just a theory, but if i can just get hold of a whole animal I will eat all of it raw for a few months to see if i heal and let you guys know. I have a promising lead now: A farmer has told me to get back to him on friday and he sounds keen to help.

All I'm saying is that most minerals and nutrients found in some specific organ can certainly be found in variating amounts in other organs. Right? So if you have absolutely no way of getting hold of your desired organ: 1) Move out to another area and 2) see if your attraction to other foods does not already deal with the issue.

Eating small creatures like seafood or insects is a good idea too because, when edible as a whole, you get every type of organ you may need.

You ask "most minerals and nutrients found in some specific organ can certainly be found in variating amounts in other organs" - the key here is whether it is a beneficial amount. The adrenal gland is eaten for its vit c content. No other gland can provide this at the quantity required for survival (from my understanding). Chicken breast has absolutely no vitamin c, so chicken breast would be useless to assist me in a problem that required vit c.

" Weston Price visited there and because he told them to stay on their health maintaining high fat diet they told him how they prevented the disease the white man called scurvy. Everytime they killed an animal they removed the adrenal gland and cut a slice for every man, woman and child in the village and ate it raw. (Eskimo means eater of raw meat and, as Uffe knows, I picked up the nick name Puckick working in Alaska during college). It is now know the adrenal gland has the highest concentration of vitamin C in the body. Outsiders went there, were kindly offered the raw adrenal slice, refused, and got scurvy toward the end of the long winter."

thinksteroids.com/community/threads/eating-raw-liver-and-raw-adrenal-gland.134306120/

Oh, and yes, i will try and get some fish and eat them in their entirety this week. Thats great advice, thanks!

[JeuneKoq]

If vit.C deficiency is a problem you're dealing with, and don't have an issue with vegetables, I suggest looking for peppers and other foods that are particularly vit.C rich:

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/vitamin-C.php

Make the most of being an omnivorous animal and enjoy variety.

[TylerDurden]

For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of  vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.

[marcuspaleo]

For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of  vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.

This statement appears true. But again, is the quantity a beneficial amount? The website nutritional data has 0mg of vitamin c in cooked chicken breast and 1.6 mg or 3% of your daily value in 100g of raw chicken breast.  You have to eat over 3kg of chicken breast to get the rda of vit c compared to say (im guessing) 10 grams of adrenal gland. So if there is something wrong with my gallbladder, sure i might be able to fix it by eating chicken breast, but it could take me 2 years as opposed to eating raw gallbladder and fixing it in weeks if not days.
nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/687/2

[dariorpl]

I think we all agree that the more animal parts you eat, the healthier you will  be. The question was whether it was correct to believe, that, for example, if you have a problem with your heart, that you should eat only animal hearts, or mainly animal hearts, to the exclusion of everything else, and that this would be a lot better for you than eating the whole animal.

Also, while reading sabertooth's post, I began to wonder... Could it be that our paleo ancestors got far more than their fair share of brain and marrow because they could easily get a carcass that was eaten by other carnivores down to the bone, and then simply pick a couple of big rocks and break them open, in a way that would be much harder for other animals to do?

And could it be that the reason for beginning to cook meat is that some people preferred making a bone/skull broth than having to physically exert themselves by breaking open the bones and the skull? If so, cooking meat could be the wild ancestor of microwave dinners. Easy and convenient, but very bad for your health. I have wondered for years about why humans would ever begin cooking meat. The whole roasting on a stick while sitting around the fire with the rest of the tribe, like marshmallows, didn't make any sense to me. This could be the answer.

[TylerDurden]

The trouble is that raw chicken breast from 100% grainfed chickens will, inevitably, be nutritionally inferior by far, to  raw, 100% pastured chicken breast from 100% raw, pastured chickens.

At any rate, eating raw glands can be a problem as some RPDers have complained that they contain nutrients that are far too concentrated. So eat tiny amounts of them at a time.

[sabertooth]

For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of  vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.

Also for those eating very low carb diets, the amount of vitamin c and other plant derived antioxidant substances required is greatly reduced. If you are not eating foods which trigger oxidative reactions then you will not need mega doses of antioxidant nutrients to supply your basic metabolic needs.

I think we all agree that the more animal parts you eat, the healthier you will  be. The question was whether it was correct to believe, that, for example, if you have a problem with your heart, that you should eat only animal hearts, or mainly animal hearts, to the exclusion of everything else, and that this would be a lot better for you than eating the whole animal.

Also, while reading sabertooth's post, I began to wonder... Could it be that our paleo ancestors got far more than their fair share of brain and marrow because they could easily get a carcass that was eaten by other carnivores down to the bone, and then simply pick a couple of big rocks and break them open, in a way that would be much harder for other animals to do?

And could it be that the reason for beginning to cook meat is that some people preferred making a bone/skull broth than having to physically exert themselves by breaking open the bones and the skull? If so, cooking meat could be the wild ancestor of microwave dinners. Easy and convenient, but very bad for your health. I have wondered for years about why humans would ever begin cooking meat. The whole roasting on a stick while sitting around the fire with the rest of the tribe, like marshmallows, didn't make any sense to me. This could be the answer.

I believe we are very adaptable and can obtain the nutrients needed to rebuild and maintain our bodies various systems without having to eat the particular corresponding animal parts. My point of contention, is when discussing what makes for optimal healing nutrition. The various organs of a healthy animal contain all the micro, macro, and proto nutrient factors necessary to build a healthy body, already pre assimilated and ready to be utilized by the predatory animal that consumes it.

There is also the theory that human beings, because we are so intelligent and opportunistic, began to seek out particular parts of the animal in order to fuel the enormous demands of our highly active bodies and brains. To the point where during the days when big game of both land and sea was endlessly plentiful our ancestors would hunt down the largest and fattest animals, eating their most nutritious organs, glands and fats, while leaving the lean meat scraps for the dogs and other scavengers. We can only imagine the kind of health, vitality and physical prowess some of these apex hunters living on mammoth fat could have obtained by being able to eat however much of whatever part of the animal they craved.

Typically most of us here do not have the luxury to pick and chose what to eat and what to throw away, and so during lean times our ancestors developed many adaptions to survive on less than optimal nutrition. The variation in different individuals ability to cope with different nutritional conditions persist to this day, and some people are much more capable of extracting nutrition from plants and animals which have become much more nutrient poor due to agriculturally induced soil depletion and imbalance.

Some of us have either lost our adaptation for malnourishment tolerance because of some environmental crisis, or never fully developed the capacity to thrive on neolithic foods to begin with... for these people it may be especially important for them to be able to gain access to the whole animal, and perhaps even to be able to eat ample amounts of certain parts of the animal that are richest in rejuvenative nutritional factors.

Now that is not to say you should go overboard, and eat ungodly amounts of brain, thyroid, pancreas tissue, ect...  still it may be beneficial to eat more than the lions share of the most choice parts. I personally have found in my own healing journey that I do well eating higher portions of fat, and eating more supplemental fats and organs in general, than would most other practitioners of the paleo diet.

[marcuspaleo]

I believe we are very adaptable and can obtain the nutrients needed to rebuild and maintain our bodies various systems without having to eat the particular corresponding animal parts. My point of contention, is when discussing what makes for optimal healing nutrition. The various organs of a healthy animal contain all the micro, macro, and proto nutrient factors necessary to build a healthy body, already pre assimilated and ready to be utilized by the predatory animal that consumes it.

There is also the theory that human beings, because we are so intelligent and opportunistic, began to seek out particular parts of the animal in order to fuel the enormous demands of our highly active bodies and brains. To the point where during the days when big game of both land and sea was endlessly plentiful our ancestors would hunt down the largest and fattest animals, eating their most nutritious organs, glands and fats, while leaving the lean meat scraps for the dogs and other scavengers. We can only imagine the kind of health, vitality and physical prowess some of these apex hunters living on mammoth fat could have obtained by being able to eat however much of whatever part of the animal they craved.

Typically most of us here do not have the luxury to pick and chose what to eat and what to throw away, and so during lean times our ancestors developed many adaptions to survive on less than optimal nutrition. The variation in different individuals ability to cope with different nutritional conditions persist to this day, and some people are much more capable of extracting nutrition from plants and animals which have become much more nutrient poor due to agriculturally induced soil depletion and imbalance.

Some of us have either lost our adaptation for malnourishment tolerance because of some environmental crisis, or never fully developed the capacity to thrive on neolithic foods to begin with... for these people it may be especially important for them to be able to gain access to the whole animal, and perhaps even to be able to eat ample amounts of certain parts of the animal that are richest in rejuvenative nutritional factors.

Now that is not to say you should go overboard, and eat ungodly amounts of brain, thyroid, pancreas tissue, ect...  still it may be beneficial to eat more than the lions share of the most choice parts. I personally have found in my own healing journey that I do well eating higher portions of fat, and eating more supplemental fats and organs in general, than would most other practitioners of the paleo diet.

Another excellent post sabertooth. We certainly think along the same lines. I too was recently pondering the health and vitality of ancient man - the brightness of their eyes; the clarity of mind, the ability to tolerate incredible hardships - it would be amazing to witness. I remember weston a price commenting on the beauty of the women, and athleticism of the men in the Swiss village he documented. He was also amazed at the children running around barefoot and unaffected by the cold weather.

I think its also important to emphasis your point that some people need to directly access the potency and healing proprieties of certain organs/glands to due to the fact that the environment in which we live, and the brutality and stupidity of the allopathic medical protocol (attack the body with drugs and surgery), has created a state of health in most people that requires extreme measures to repair.

Im also interested in knowing what your diet is sabertooth? Im particularly interested in the fats you eat. I have a deep cavity in one of my teeth and in the last few days, after having eaten excessive amounts of butter, i have noticed the pain has reduced significantly. The pain in my midsection hasnt really improved though unfortunately. I was about to order some lambs fat from the local organic (pasture raised) butcher and chew on some during the day.

[sabertooth]

My diet has been fairly steady for the last couple of years.....

Roughly 60% of my caloric intake comes from pasture raised sheep fat( which includes the belly fat, suet, back fat muscular fat, brain fat, marrow, ect)  I also eat a little coconut butter daily around three to four table spoons.

Note-I am real particular about my fats, and some so called grass fed fat will not taste right to me. I have often thrown out whole animals that have not tasted right. Its taken some time to hone my taste, but now I am able to better discern the quality of an animal by the first taste of its blood. The liver is also a good indicator of health, a sweet tasting liver is usually a good sign. On the other hand livers from animals fed grain, given worming drugs or fed poor quality grass will often have cyst or abscesses and taste absolutely horrid. I have worked as a butcher in a facility that processed "grass fed animals" and was appalled at the poor quality, awful taste, and signs of sickness in the animals. I have had to go to extremes to procure the quality of animals that fit my finicky taste. I have looked far and wide for animals that have not been fed any grain, or given deworming chemicals, from small farms. I prefer the older and fatter animals, and am not able to sustain myself on young lean animals without having to buy extra supplemental fats.

25% of my diet is from the protein  primarily sheep meat( which includes muscle meat, organs, connective tissue, stomach, intestines, glands, tongue, eyes... and just about everything except the skin and bones) also eat about 3 eggs a day from my own chickens, and the occasional sea food.

10% of my diet is from a wide variety of low glycemic carbohydrate foods including salad greens, tomatoes, avocados, culinary herbs, sea weed, lemons, coconut...

Now that my gut has been healed I am less cautious about my carb choices... and will occasionally indulge in treats and condiments to top of my salads like olives, mild salsa, pine nuts, hemp seeds....

I still have problems with high glycemic fruits and starchy vegetables, that make me feel bloated and affect my ability to process fat.

There are other components of my diet which stray a little off the paleo path, like my current experiment with colostrum . Its been about a month of taking 4 table spoons a day and so far my digestion is working real good. It seems I am tolerating it just fine and feel good, without any of the issues I get with raw whole dairy. Though I seem to tolerate colostrum, I still am a dairy skeptic and believe that all the other dairy I have experimented with has caused me issues. Mostly in terms of excess gut mucus , bloating and liver congestion..... so for anyone using dairy who has gut issues, I still recommend total abstinence, even though I am now beginning to shift toward suggesting that colostrum be considered as an alternative for people who insist on keeping dairy in their diets.

I will also drink brewed chaga from time to time, homemade kombucha and other herbal teas and tonics that my girlfriend makes.

As for dental advise.....I practice natural hygiene and have not brushed my teeth in years, and have no issues with plaque or decay, I clean my mouth out with saliva, I also chew connective tissue like gum after meals.... it cleans my teeth and stimulates my gums and the nerves in my teeth to rejuvenate. Depending on the degree of damage, teeth are capable of re-enamelling, or at least under the right conditions further decay can be halted....If the damage is extensive enough then you may need it worked on by a professional dentist...just make sure they don't give you a root canal, or a mercury filling, and try to limit the amount of drugs they give you to a minimal.

[marcuspaleo]

Thanks Sabertooth.

Do you eat all the meat and fat raw?

I was just about to contact my butcher and ask for some lamb fat trimmings. I nibble on roasted nuts all day for energy but i want to replace it with raw animal fat. Is that a good idea?

[cherimoya_kid]

Saber, do you floss your teeth?

[sabertooth]

Thanks Sabertooth.

Do you eat all the meat and fat raw?

I was just about to contact my butcher and ask for some lamb fat trimmings. I nibble on roasted nuts all day for energy but i want to replace it with raw animal fat. Is that a good idea?

Everything is raw...Raw animal fats in my opinion are far more superior nutritionally than any plant derived source, plus eating lamb fat is by far much better for your teeth than nuts.

Saber, do you floss your teeth?

No I don't floss....I found flossing a very crude method of cleaning between the teeth that can irritate the gums and possibly cause the gum tissue to recede leaving one even more open to getting corrosive foods stuck in between teeth  What foods I eat seem to break down and get cleared from between my teeth as I chew connective tissue after meals. What bits of fat and animal protein that will occasionally get caught, does not seem to cause any decay, and so I don't worry about flossing it out.

I am an avid advocate of tonguing your teeth, and licking your chops frequently to keep things clear of potentially corrosive elements.

If I get a particularly large piece of something between my teeth that cant be swished out with saliva, I have learned how to clear it out rather effectively with a finger nail.

[cherimoya_kid]

I was just curious. Thanks.

[marcuspaleo]

Everything is raw...Raw animal fats in my opinion are far more superior nutritionally than any plant derived source, plus eating lamb fat is by far much better for your teeth than nuts.

You described the basics of what you eat n a post above, but can you be specific, as im really interested.
For example, what do you eat for breakfast and what do you drink; what do you snack on when hungry - raw fat? Do you have any sweets and if so, how does it make you feel?

Can you comment on this diet I am designing: again, the purpose is health, but also heal my damaged gallbladder/liver/pancreas etc:

B- raw milk, raw cream, raw butter, 1 banana, unheated honey, 6 eggs (in a shake)
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or  fruit
L - sour dough bread sandwhich with salad,  sliced meat and raw cheese (I deviate slightly from primal diet here)
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or  fruit
D- Raw meat. Focusing on eating everypart of the animal every week. Blood, marrow, brains - everything. Maybe some starchy potatoes and vegetables/salads.
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or  fruit

[marcuspaleo]

At 37:20 in this interview,  AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. But later in the interview,he  discusses specifically using adrenal glands to cure certain aliments.  Bit confused.


oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/

[marcuspaleo]

Sabertooth, I was thinking of making some sort of crude primal shake to help me consume these cuts/foods because Im having trouble with digestion and because i find most of it quite foul. What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?

[cherimoya_kid]

At 37:20 in this interview,  AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/

In the long run, you absolutely will need organ meats or seafoods (especially shellfish) to avoid deficiencies. And organ meats and seafoods are crucial for brain and skeletal growth and health in children, pregnant women, and women trying to become pregnant.

Aajonus tried to dumb down the diet to get more people to start it. He figured that, once people realized how good it made them feel, they'd research it more and correct their deficiencies. At least, that's my guess.

[sabertooth]

Id say your meal plan seems like a reasonable approach, but I would advise you to begin to hone your taste buds, and let your instincts tell you how much to eat of each food.

Sometimes dairy will cause issues, but because of its addictive nature, it is often difficult for the instincts to be able to tell you to eliminate it from the diet, so if you are still experiencing digestive issues, I highly suggest you try to abstain from all dairy.

Fruits and honey give me trouble, so personally I cant handle it....but others on the paleo diet can, so its up to the individual to decide

At 37:20 in this interview,  AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/

AVs claims were based entirely on his own opinions on what makes for an optimal diet, I respect many of his insights, but he is not the paragon of nutritional dogmatic truth. In his diet which depends heavily on foods like eggs, dairy, high meat, perhaps he believes you can obtain most of the nutrients that are contained in organ meats from other foods.

I'm highly active and can vouch that organ meats are necessary for me, but I can't speak for people who are more sedentary, perhaps people with lower energy requirements wont needs as much organ meats, but still I think organ can be beneficial to people of all activity levels.

[sabertooth]

Sabertooth, I was thinking of making some sort of crude primal shake to help me consume these cuts/foods because Im having trouble with digestion and because i find most of it quite foul. What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?

Its worth a try, I don't mix meat with veggies in my smoothies, but some people may find it more appealing that way.

I really like stomach smoothies, the stomach is a good base and has a real mild flavor that goes good with the more stronger tasting organs and glands.

Stomach, raw eggs , and water is a real bland and simple smoothie to try when getting started, and you can begin to add in other things according to your own taste.

[sabertooth]

Its worth a try, I don't mix meat with veggies in my smoothies, but some people may find it more appealing that way.

I really like stomach smoothies, the stomach is a good base and has a real mild flavor that goes good with the more stronger tasting organs and glands.

Stomach, raw eggs , and water is a real bland and simple smoothie to try when getting started, and you can begin to add in other things according to your own taste.

[sabertooth]

@ 58 minuets AV talks about the benefits of fresh glands,

 I concur with his conclusions on that point.

[TylerDurden]

Even primal dieters routinely recommend eating raw organ meats in order to speed up health-recovery.Aajonus merely started his diet of mostly raw dairy, raw coconut cream, veggie-juice,raw nuts , raw eggs and raw honey because those were the raw foods most cooked-foodists could more easily adapt to almost instantly. Raw organ-meats have a stronger taste, so those who are more used to eating bland-tasting cooked foods  take time to get used to the richer taste of organs/wild meats etc.

[marcuspaleo]

Thanks guys. You're really helping me out and giving me confidence. Im still very cautious as Ive tried so many diets to heal,  and many have been very damaging, particularly the cooked Paleo diet. In fact, the cooked Paleo was probably the worst thing ive done in 18 years trying to heal myself. I just had raw chicken and avocado for dinner despite not feeling like meat at all. I just felt like some potato and a cooked egg. I only had about 100grams of meat and Im still hungry, but Im still super cautious so I dont want to indulge. What part of me that is broken would not feel comfortable processing meat? I can feel it when i eat meat more than any other food. It causes pain and discomfort. Raw meat certainly helps, but like i said previously, i really just want to eat light food like fruit and vegetables and starch which cause little pain. That would have to be my gallbladder wouldn't it?

Also, someone told me I need about 900 grams of meat a day to start really healing myself. Is there any truth to this?

Also, the terrible pain is around my gallbladder, liver or pancreas, but what if its my kidneys that aren't working and expelling toxins, and because of them they are putting stress on my liver causing pain? Or perhaps my thyroid is under-performing and thus affecting my detoxification? So in actual fact, I need to address another organ or gland as opposed to the one casuing so much pain. Is this possible?

[dariorpl]

What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?

AV also said in his books not to mix meats with alcaline fruits or vegetable juice in large quantities because those impair the digestion of meats which require an acidic digestive environment. He said you should wait at least an hour after consuming one to consume the other.

[marcuspaleo]

AVs claims were based entirely on his own opinions on what makes for an optimal diet, I respect many of his insights, but he is not the paragon of nutritional dogmatic truth.

Ive read his book and listened to many of his interviews. His teachings are so hard to take seriously because of his wild claims. I heard him recently saying he could have sold out and made millions of dollars not just as a diet guru, but as the face of some cigarette brand in the 70's.  I forget the exact quote, but it was something ridiculous like he turned down 7 million dollars to be the face of the brand.