What do you guys think of Michael Greger, MD

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Just wondering what you guys think of Michael Greger, MD.

He runs http://nutritionfacts.org/

Does anyone know anything about his background, who funds his work/research, his success rate, ect...

Id also like to hear weather you guys agree, or disagree with him, and why.

Thanks
 

[cherimoya_kid]

From a quick look at his site, he seems fairly smart. Looks like he promoted a veggie-ish diet, though.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Yeah, he recommends a plant based diet. His research seems extensive, and very sound. I was wondering other opinions.

I will never again follow the advice of Aajonus. I do so much better with lots of fiber in my diet, mainly from fruits. 

[van]

looks out of shape, maybe overweight, needs glasses, balding, high voice,,  wonder how much was a result of going veg.  He's very good at making fun of eating meat, as if he knows something imperical. 

[cherimoya_kid]

In east Africa there are two groups, the Kikuyu and the Masai, that have lived side-by-side for probably thousands of years. The Masai eat mostly meat, milk, and blood. The Kikuyu eat mostly fruits and veggies, with a little dairy and meat.

The Kikuyu have 13 times the rate of cavities as the Maasai. That's 1300%.

[TylerDurden]

I`ve been over this  subject before. The Maasai actually have always eaten some cereals as well. The difference is not what they eat but the fact that some of their food is eaten raw(ie blood and milk). The Kikuyu by contrast are a settled community so undoubtedly would hqve been eating lots of grains. Plus, being settled would not have been doing as much daily exercise as the Maasai.

As regards Michael Greger, he as usual like so many other researchers makes the mistake of pointing out the vast amounts of heqt-created toxins in cooked animal foods but fails to note that raw, high quality, unprocessed animal foods do not possess such toxins.

[cherimoya_kid]

I`ve been over this  subject before. The Maasai actually have always eaten some cereals as well. The difference is not what they eat but the fact that some of their food is eaten raw(ie blood and milk). The Kikuyu by contrast are a settled community so undoubtedly would hqve been eating lots of grains. Plus, being settled would not have been doing as much daily exercise as the Maasai.

As regards Michael Greger, he as usual like so many other researchers makes the mistake of pointing out the vast amounts of heqt-created toxins in cooked animal foods but fails to note that raw, high quality, unprocessed animal foods do not possess such toxins.

 Yes, the Masai eat a small amount of grain/fruits/veggies, but their cavity protection is largely due to the much higher vitamin K2 and vitamin D content of their diet, as well as the larger amount of easily absorbed calcium, most likely. Raw doesn't help the teeth much beyond a certain point. Raw vegans don't usually have very good teeth, compared to cooked paleos.  Several groups in Dr. Price's book had literally perfect teeth, but did not eat a lot of raw. I'm speaking of the Incans and the Maori.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

looks out of shape, maybe overweight, needs glasses, balding, high voice,,  wonder how much was a result of going veg.  He's very good at making fun of eating meat, as if he knows something imperical.

Doesnt look out of shape or over weight to me.... definitely not the ideal athletic physic...but better than others highly touted on this forum like jack kruse... glasses is most likely due to the fact that hes a doctor, doing hours of close range research in an indoors environment... do you mean em·pir·i·cal*? his research seems pretty sound and well supported.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

In east Africa there are two groups, the Kikuyu and the Masai, that have lived side-by-side for probably thousands of years. The Masai eat mostly meat, milk, and blood. The Kikuyu eat mostly fruits and veggies, with a little dairy and meat.

The Kikuyu have 13 times the rate of cavities as the Maasai. That's 1300%.

Sorry, no disrespect, but can you site a source to back your claim?

wouldnt cavities be due to lack of dental high gene, like brushing and flossing techniques rather than diet(which would have a smaller role). Many people on Aajonus's facebook forum are reporting terrible teeth problems...

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

I`ve been over this  subject before. The Maasai actually have always eaten some cereals as well. The difference is not what they eat but the fact that some of their food is eaten raw(ie blood and milk). The Kikuyu by contrast are a settled community so undoubtedly would hqve been eating lots of grains. Plus, being settled would not have been doing as much daily exercise as the Maasai.

As regards Michael Greger, he as usual like so many other researchers makes the mistake of pointing out the vast amounts of heqt-created toxins in cooked animal foods but fails to note that raw, high quality, unprocessed animal foods do not possess such toxins.

He is mainly attacking saturated fat, and heme iron concentrations in meat. Can you site any sources that show the difference between raw and cooked animal fats...

[cherimoya_kid]

Sorry, no disrespect, but can you site a source to back your claim?

wouldnt cavities be due to lack of dental high gene, like brushing and flossing techniques rather than diet(which would have a smaller role). Many people on Aajonus's facebook forum are reporting terrible teeth problems...

My source is Dr. Price's book. If you need a page number, I can give that as well.

As far as dental hygeine, none of the groups Dr. Price studied made much effort at it, but some groups literally had no one who had ever had a cavity, like the Inca and the Maori.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

I dont have his book so a page number wont do me much good.

If you can find an online source thad be great, i cant find any.

 

[cherimoya_kid]

I dont have his book so a page number wont do me much good.

If you can find an online source thad be great, i cant find any.

 

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

I can give chapter and page number if you need.

[cherimoya_kid]

It's chapter 9, about 1/3 of the way down through the chapter. He mentions the Masai having a rate of cavities of 0.4% of all teeth, while the Kikuyu had 5.5% of all teeth with cavities.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

Ok, thanks for the link, but i cant find the specific text your referring to, this is getting a little off topic from my original question. I am looking for evidence to disprove Michael Greger. Who is funding his work? What monetary incentive does he have for publishing his research? Is his research fraudulent?

I am suspect of the WAPF:
According to their website, the WAPF “has no ties with the meat or dairy industry, nor with any organization promoting these industries.” However, they list Green Pasture, Vital Choice, and U.S. Wellness Meats, (all peddlers of meat and dairy products) as sponsors of their 2009 conference. New Trends Publishing is also a sponsor, a company who happens to sell several books and DVDs by Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. They even admit many of their members (a.k.a. sponsors) are farmers.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/who-is-the-weston-a-price-foundation.html#ixzz3p3RPnnF5

[cherimoya_kid]

It is not getting off topic. I am pointing out a huge flaw with a veggie, fruit, and grain-heavy diet versus one including lots of high-quality animal foods. If you want to question Dr. Price's integrity, go ahead. I suggest you read his book first.

[cherimoya_kid]

And I'm done arguing with you. It's all there in black and white. Read it or not, but I've got nothing else to say on it.

[TylerDurden]

Raw doesn't help the teeth much beyond a certain point. Raw vegans don't usually have very good teeth, compared to cooked paleos.  Several groups in Dr. Price's book had literally perfect teeth, but did not eat a lot of raw. I'm speaking of the Incans and the Maori.

Hmm, looking at reports of the ancient Maori diet, they ate a lot of raw fish and raw shellfish. The trouble with Price's experiences was that they happened in the 1930s(?), long after most tribes had changed their ancestral diets. I recall reading an article online where it stated that the Maoris switched from their ancestral diet by 1900 already. I am sure that WP met people who still ate in an ancestral way but whether it was the same as what Maoris ate, say, 2000 years before, is debatable. But then I am no anthropologist.

In my own case, my teeth were badly damaged, always loose on a cooked, palaeolithic diet and remained so with no worsening in my subsequent raw vegan/fruitarian phase lasting 3 years. Indeed, one main reason I switched to raw vegan was because plant foods were much softer for the teeth. Then switching to raw organic/grainfed and then organic/grassfed meats was what healed my teeth a bit,  and just in time as they were about to fall out at the time. Adding in raw dairy for 6 months swiftly  caused my teeth to deteriorate very quickly all over again, before I cut the dairy out. 4 months later, my teeth were rock-hard on an attempt to do a raw version of Cordain's 65% animal food/35% plant food diet. In later years, I tried going raw zero carb with high quality grassfed meats and organs, and my teeth again started to deteriorate, at an astonishingly fast rate, after about 3 weeks into such a diet.

Ok, I am hardly representative of any group, but I get the impression that as long as my diet is at least 10% animal food, that my teeth  etc. will  be fine. The key with me is that most of the foods in my diet need to be raw and that I must avoid dairy and grains at all costs.

[eveheart]

It seems that some of the information you requested from us in on his "ABOUT" page on the link you provided. His site says he gathers his information from peer-reviewed work and that he's funded by a particular non-profit. There was no mention of getting information from spurious sources - no coyote spirit guides or any other such nonsense - but he is probably some combination of alternative and mainstream.

You asked us about his success rate. His website says, "We believe that a significant part of the problem is that individuals who want to make the correct dietary choices for themselves and their families are faced with a deluge of confusing and conflicting nutritional advice. The goal of this website is to present you and your doctor with the results of the latest in peer-reviewed nutrition and health research, presented in a way that is easy to understand," from which I gather that he is more of an author and speaker than a practitioner. Do you know someone who is being treated by him?

Tell us more about your interest in Dr. Greger.

[A_Tribe_Called_Paleo]

It seems that some of the information you requested from us in on his "ABOUT" page on the link you provided. His site says he gathers his information from peer-reviewed work and that he's funded by a particular non-profit. There was no mention of getting information from spurious sources - no coyote spirit guides or any other such nonsense - but he is probably some combination of alternative and mainstream.

You asked us about his success rate. His website says, "We believe that a significant part of the problem is that individuals who want to make the correct dietary choices for themselves and their families are faced with a deluge of confusing and conflicting nutritional advice. The goal of this website is to present you and your doctor with the results of the latest in peer-reviewed nutrition and health research, presented in a way that is easy to understand," from which I gather that he is more of an author and speaker than a practitioner. Do you know someone who is being treated by him?

Tell us more about your interest in Dr. Greger.

No i dont know anyone being treated by him. My interest comes from my previous constipation experience from the paleo diet, documented on the forum. after Discovering his work, and jeff leach of the human food project, i was able to return to normal bowel function, which many said was not possible. They both recommend daily fiber consumption to be around 100g per day.

I am also not so sure about the new research floating around about saturated fat all these low carb people are promoting. I think its possible a Plant based diet, with minimal amounts of animal products is best for majority of us.

[TylerDurden]

Controversial topics should always be put in the hot topics forum. Done so now.

[eveheart]

I think its possible a Plant based diet, with minimal amounts of animal products is best for majority of us.

But why ask us about Dr. Greger? I mean, you know this forum has many members whose diets wouldn't be categorized as containing minimal amounts of animal products, so how would advice from our perspective assist you? Do you just want to provoke someone to debate you?

[cherimoya_kid]

Strict veganism will fuck your brain in it's metaphorical rectum. Add in even a small amount of raw or lightly-cooked animal products for the special fatty acids and B-12, and you can be, depending on the person, very healthy. However, some people will do better with a much larger ratio of animal to plant foods. A lot depends on the individual, and also on where the person's health is at the moment. Do not preach veganism here. We will laugh at you. Harder than any vegan could ever laugh at us.

[TylerDurden]

That is the point, as CK pointed out. Most of us  have previously gone through a vegan or raw vegan phase prior to trying out RVAF diets, and have failed miserably with such,  so it is absurd to try to convert us all over again. We do have a few  people here who are very successful healthwise doing a c.90% raw plant food/10% raw animal food diet, such as SkinnyDevil, but they are rare, and even they would not advocate a 100% plant food diet, however raw.

[nummi]

You said you had bowel issues that didn't seem to go away, but after eating more fiber they did go away. Fiber is directly indigestible. But indirectly, the gut bacteria, produce vital fatty acids from it. Indigestible carbohydrates like fiber, resistant starch, inulin, and others.

To some people minimal amount of animal products could be 300-500 grams of meat-organs-fat a day. Some up to 1kg a day, some 100-300grams a day or less.
People differ, bodies differ, metabolisms differ - and so needs differ. (A physically more active body also needs more animal products than one that is less active.) "Minimal" is determined by any individuals' body, not by anyone or anything else. Especially not by anyone who says things without seeing the true picture-meaning the words form and without understanding how those pictures-meanings fit into reality or not, and without first even seeing the "cornerstones" of our reality - the working "pattern" of our world.

Generally speaking, too low animal product consumption leaves the brain and nervous system with functioning issues, up to severe damage depending on how long the deficiencies occur, and up to potential lethalities.
But eating too much animal products is not good either.

That you start eating something less or more, does not necessarily mean the higher amount of one was the issue, or any other possibilities. You eat something more, but notice issues; then eat the first less but something else more, in the beginning no issues because have abundance of the first, but over a period issues start occurring again. Then what? Switch back? Maybe the problem was not the bigger amount of the first, but the too low amount of the second?
What seems to be the problem, might not always be the problem.

Best not to follow anyone or anyone's sayings, and instead find yourself, listen to your own body and learn to read and understand your own body. Others' sayings and thoughts can be of help when finding oneself, but they should not be just followed like some religion.