Almost every kind of wild fish is infected with worms

[MaximilianKohler]

Wikipedia points out some flaws/critiques of Weston Price's research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price#Nutrition

So far I really haven't seen any convincing info/sources that would make me confident enough to ignore all current medical knowledge about the dangers of parasites.

Pretty much every wild animal is infested with them. Domesticated animals are mostly free of them. I have seen evidence of parasites being dangerous. I read about one that caused a guy to lose his eyesight after eating raw deer.

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/gen_info/faqs.html - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinella_spiralis - there are tons of these.

I think that just because there is no evidence that any of the few members on this forum have been severely harmed from parasites, doesn't mean they're not dangerous.

>we place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that eating raw meat poses a greater risk of parasite infection

Pretty sure the CDC and other similar organizations have publications like that. http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/food.html - http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/survival/wilderness/eating-raw-meat1.htm - http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/foodborne-illness-and-disease/parasites-and-foodborne-illness/ - http://www.livescience.com/20856-organic-meat-toxoplasmosis-parasite-risk.html

Some can have subtle but significant affects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii#Behavioral_differences_of_infected_hosts

This is pretty standard stuff. Which is why cooking meat is seen as "common sense" almost everywhere.

Claims like "parasites only harm unhealthy hosts" are unscientific and unfalsifiable. So they don't hold much weight.

>>I did get worms though
>What kind?

I think they were tape worms. I saw a small flat one, and a really long one. I might have ate something that caused them to exit because medical tests came up negative.

[ys]

Which is why cooking meat is seen as "common sense" almost everywhere.

Most of my meat is frozen.  It is a way better option than cooking it.

Parasites is not a reason to cook meat.  If you ever butchered whole animal you'd know there is a LOT of nutrients left after you are done with meat.  And the only EASY way to extract those nutrients is to boil it.  In the early days when you could not count on every successful hunt it was essential to get the most out of every animal.  Most human as well as many animals prefer abundance of lesser quality food than just barely enough of higher quality food.  That's the reason for cooking.

[sabertooth]

So we have another account of worms without any evidence...... next time someone passes a worm, please take pictures, or even better take it to a vet or some elsewhere they can have it tested.

If indeed it where a tape worm and it passed through the body, then it would be evidence for the view that parasitic infestation has difficulty taking hold where conditions aren't suited for it.

Parasites are real, in fact I have blood parasites living in me right now, that I have had for well over a decade, probably picked up from a tick bite, and because of my past heath issues my immune system was unable to clear them from the body. In my experience the best way to deal with possible parasite issues is to build, nourish and strengthen the body at the cellular level through optimizing the diet and lifestyle. Cooking everything, sterilizing everything, and avoiding all germs or worms is not an option. The people who try to do so, usually make themselves sick, because they never develop natural immunity to, or mutuality with, the lifeforms which share this world.

Parasites are not the original issue with most people who become infested. Case by case if you where to visit with those people who have become ill from parasite infections you will probably find a number of other environmental factors involved which allowed the parasite to gain hold in the body to begin with.

Statistics are bulkshit that leave out all the really relevant info.....example- 40,000 Americans die of complications from the flu virus every year, yet I doubt many of us here on this forum are lying awake in fear of the upcoming flu season. The people who die of the flu , like those who become ill with parasites are typically unhealthy due to other issues. What modern medicine has diagnosed as an infectious disease organism is more often a symptom of another condition.

[MaximilianKohler]

>So we have another account of worms without any evidence...... next time someone passes a worm, please take pictures, or even better take it to a vet or some elsewhere they can have it tested.

Yeah, I didn't know our testing methods were so unreliable so I didn't know I needed to do any of that. I did post a thread about it a couple years back though: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/health/tapeworm-other-food-poisoning/

[TylerDurden]

The media have been hyping the so-called dangers of bacteria and parasites for over a century. Yet it is all baseless. There have been no mass  food-poisoning epidemics in the raw-meat-eating community despite the fact that many eat aged raw meat/"high-meat". Parasites are hardly ever heard of, and the few times they have happened, almost all reports showed that they were largely harmless. Last I checked, some Instincto called Zephyr had a serious problem after eating a raw mongoose but that was decades ago.

I myself have been eating  a lot of raw wild game over 14 years and never got a parasite from them. The only time I got parasites was when I ate some dodgy raw horsemeat.

[dariorpl]

In fact if these worms were so prevalent in raw meat, and their infection so pernicious then you would expect everyone of the veterans here to be infested, but this is not the case, so as a group of many people who have eaten raw meat for extended periods, without such issues, we place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that eating raw meat poses a greater risk of parasite infection.

This.

Although I do agree with AV that parasites are always helpful.

And I know you'll disagree, but I'm sure there are people right now working on discovering a simple way to poison people in such a way that the body requires massive parasites on a raw diet, and then they will try to poison us in this way, so that they can say, here, you see? raw meat eaters get all of these horrible parasites. In addition to this, they will probably start manufacturing stories of supposed raw meat eaters who got horrible parasite infections and died or almost died.  This forum is probably already infiltrated by some of these people, so I fully expect those stories to come up here as well.

But the fact will remain that up until this point, what you said has been the case, so even if it changes in the future, they'll still have to explain why it hasn't happened up 'til now. And I'm sure they'll come up with some explanation. They'll say meats today didn't have as many parasites as meats in the future, or whatever.

[MaximilianKohler]

Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281

This forum is probably already infiltrated by some of these people, so I fully expect those stories to come up here as well.

You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

[cherimoya_kid]

Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

1. That was a good article. Really good. I didn't realize the range of allergic conditions that are being treated with these helminth worms.

2. Do not trust Big Pharma. While I don't think they have any actual trolls here now, I wouldn't put it past them if we get big enough.

[MaximilianKohler]

Who is "they"?

I can see some kinds of raw vegan types doing some trolling, but you guys seem to be scared of a different entity.

[cherimoya_kid]

Who is "they"?

I can see some kinds of raw vegan types doing some trolling, but you guys seem to be scared of a different entity.

You "can see" some raw vegans trolling? Dude, we must have banned DurianRider at least a dozen times. Then there was SuperInfinity, I banned him at least 5 times myself, plus other people banned him as well. And there have been plenty of other vegans trolling, just no one as persistent as DR or SuperInfinity.

So yeah, we have had a lot of trolls here. And it's not that I'm afraid that we wouldn't catch any trolls from Big Pharma. Either they'd be too obvious and get banned, or they'd actually make the place better by forcing us to be even more evidence-based. I do not fear such trolls. Your enemy is the only person who'll tell you the negatives about yourself, so let them bring it on.

[dariorpl]

Article I just read about helpful worms vs parasitic ones: http://gizmodo.com/sounds-gross-but-intestinal-worms-can-actually-be-good-1739599281
You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

Interesting article. And yes, I do believe that, and yes, maybe that makes me paranoid. But you know what they say, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.

[dariorpl]

cherimoya, it isn't just big pharma, and it isn't just trolling. Trolling is quite benign compared to the stuff these people are willing to do to further their goals.

[cherimoya_kid]

cherimoya, it isn't just big pharma, and it isn't just trolling. Trolling is quite benign compared to the stuff these people are willing to do to further their goals.

Big Pharma has the combination of money, knowledge, and financial incentive that makes them most likely. I mean, sure, the junk food industry wishes we would go away too, but I doubt they would bother trolling nutrition forums.

And I know about a lot of the bad stuff they've done. Who cares? The truth will out, and the truth will set everyone free, and within our lifetimes, too, I think.

[dariorpl]

I wish I had your optimism

[MaximilianKohler]

I really doubt big pharma companies would bother going on a small online forum to mess with fewer than 50 raw fooders.

This forum is not making a dent in their profits.

[dariorpl]

Powerful people have learned that problems are best nipped in the bud. And, don't kid yourself, they know all about the raw diet. They're on it themselves. It's why they drink blood and whatnot. Whenever one of them is outed, people say they're satanic. Well maybe they are and maybe they aren't, but the blood is healthy and they know it.

They just don't want that level of health for the masses, which they despise and want to eliminate and replace them with robots. Or at least make them sick and dependent and make them act like robots.

[MaximilianKohler]

omg, lmao.

[JeuneKoq]

^Alluminoty agent confirmed. Must ban at once before he spreads more doubt about "their" existence, and "their" relentless attempt to silence us for good. I recommend members of the forum to wear tin foil hats for a week, before it's safe to discuss raw meat again.


Just messing with you guys  don't ban me plz

[raw]

We are eating shell fish at least 5 days a week. Making entire raw fish smoothy for two days aweek. Any fish that is wild caught and small in size are good for the smoothy. Amazing raw sea food

[a_real_man]

You really think people would dedicate that much of their time to do something like that? That seems incredibly paranoid.

I frequent a men's-only forum that has a rigorous vetting process. We regularly find trolls and imposters. This same movement began small and has been growing... at this point it is unstoppable but nipping it in the bud/censoring it/trolling in the early stages would have been the most effective means to shutting it down. I understand your skepticism but it's a fallacy to think that other people are like yourself (e.g., wouldn't waste time trolling). The reality is that there *are* people extremely different, with motivations you would find odd. Heck, anyone here that eats raw meat would be almost unimaginable to the common person, so we are living proof of that.

[Alive]

I'm thinking that if you lived a healthy lifestyle then you would be able to keep your bodys foreign inhabitants in check.

But if you were in an unhealthy state then they could cause serious harm or death. So if someone lives on an unhealthy diet then eating some things raw could cause problems.

For example years ago I went to a party and consumed bread and supermarket juice and raw meat, bingo some of the meat microbes got out of control eating the carbs and sugar, making me feel sick. After throwing up I felt fine.

So there could be a civilisation tiping point where grain consumption levels favor the consumption of cooked meat.

Japanese cope with fish worms by eating lots of wasabi.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Found one anisakis worm in my Raw Cod tonight, although it has been in the 'fridge for several weeks.   Still alive, so pulled it out and enjoyed the high Cod, which are known to have this problem through feeding on the bottom.    Always take them out, if found, as they can leave a painful stomach for a few days till they die and get expelled.   Freezing the Cod can get them to die.

[thehadezb]

Is any case of strict carnivores diyng from worms or parasites? i.e. big cats or wolves.
I remember that on pottenger study, the cats that were fed raw get rid of their parasitic infection.
This is a very interesting topic with multiple nuances. There is a podcast just about parasites. I don't remember the name.

[Mart1n]

I regularly fish wild trout. About one in 5 are infected with large worms living in the flesh of these fishes. Cysts as well, probably after worms that have died and the fishes immune system encapsulates these toxic remains (probably with cholesterol and calcium). I can't remember to see so much infected fish like 10-15 years ago.
I discard fish that have visible worms for the same reason you avoid being bitten by ticks or mosquito's - avoid infection. Fish that have smaller invisible parasites you can't do anything about. You eat them and you get infected.
Fish are cold blooded and some of these worms may not survive in warm blooded animals though.

All life has to deal with...other forms of life. That's how it is on Earth..

Something useful about parasites (worms) may be that they are able to absorb toxins, heavy metals and such. Getting "the flu" may actually be caused by these worms dying inside of you and thus releasing all of the accumulated toxins. Toxins can induce flu-like symptoms. In fact the flu is always caused by toxins, whether it be from worms, virus, bacteria, spiders, snakes or what have you.

Humans have weaker stomach acid than many other animals, like cats and dogs. This means humans are more likely to be infected by parasites. Certain foods, diets and minerals help stomach acid production, which would be of help. Stress is said to inhibit the production of stomach acid. Proteins activate stomach acid production. Stomach acid is salt-acid, or HCL.

Back in the old days people used to de-worm once or twice a year - fall and spring. The de-worming would rid you of a good deal of worms AND the toxins they accumulate, preferably before they become real large.
There likely is no point in getting rid of any and all parasites. De-worming regularly is sufficient. A well working immune system deals with regulating the amount of smaller, invisible parasites. If not you need to get into medicinal solutions for those, like garlic or turpentine, to name a few.

De-worm routines are for all, including veggies. Not the least because so called organic vegetables often grow on dirt saturated with pig, cow or chicken manure. Hard to escape infection. Parasite eggs can survive harsh conditions for a long time.

These were details I gathered along my way. Documentation floats around on the net in bits and pieces. 

[Sol^Sa]

Very interesting. I always wondered if cysts in general are a symptom of parasites. Also would be interesting to know historical data on parasites in people who mainly ate animal foods. I then thought maybe it has something to do with iodine but that wouldn't explain why salmon often has a lot of these worms would it? I mean they live in the sea which is abundant in iodine. Vonderplanitz claimed the body produces them itself to "detox". That's why I was talking about historical data. Especially Eskimos, did they develop parasites, worms on their diet? Or did they know of them? I read that the Masai use herbs to get rid of worms but the difference is that Masai eat also differently and especially plants which apparently contain toxic compounds  Very interesting topic I was actually thinking about this myself the last few days. Vonderplanitz also said they eat only diseased tissue which would somewhat make sense. Would be interesting to know if all these Salmon that are infested with these worms were actually healthy and if these worms were in the flesh when the Salmon was alive.