Author Topic: Increased height linked to aging faster  (Read 5506 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 01:04:55 am »
This has been known for a while. It's part of why small dogs outlive larger ones. Of course, joint problems for bigger animals also play a role as well--their joints are just not designed to handle all the extra weight. I think that's part of why the human knee, especially in men, tends to cause problems in later life. Our knees have not totally evolved to be robust enough to handle our entire body weight, especially for bigger people, especially walking on hard surfaces all the time. Damage from sports probably is a factor as well.

Shorter people have higher rates of heart disease, though. It's not clear why, but the link is undeniable. I don't know how true that is for smaller members of other species.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 01:26:24 am »
The thing is, I suspect that joint problems for larger dogs may be more due to the appalling, highly-processed diets the dogs are fed on. Another big factor behind canine diseases is the appallingly high level of inbreeding caused by foolish human breeding methods.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 03:41:25 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 02:33:32 am »
The thing is, I suspect that joint problems for larger dogs may be more due to the appalling, highly-processed diets the dogs are fed on. Another big factor behind canine diseases is the appallingly high level if inbreeding caused by foolish human breeding methods.

But the largest dogs rarely live past age 10. Smaller dogs on the same diet commonly live more than twice that. That's not nutrition. And you NEVER hear about the smallest dogs having joint problems. With big dogs it's pretty much always there past age 10-12 or so. That's obviously not nutrition. Sure it plays a role, and inbreeding a smaller role, but just think about it.

Small dog weighs 10 pounds, as an example. That's 2.5 pounds per leg. Big dog weighs 200 (not uncommon in St. Bernards or big mastiffs). That's 50 pounds per leg. Even if the bigger dog's knee/hip is 4 times the cross-section, it's still bearing 20 times the weight, with every step. That's multiple times higher when they jump or run.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 03:49:06 am »
I can only go by my own experiences and info. Great Danes, for example, are very large dogs and are also particularly susceptible to very excessive inbreeding -these usually have hip dysplasia in old age etc. - they have a lifespan of 6-8 years. By contrast, wolves in captivity can live till 20 years of age, and are rather big by general dog standards.

Here someone makes another pertinent point online:-
Quote
"The average life span of a Great Dane is 6-8 years. To me, that never made any  sense. Why would a small breed dog live longer than a large?For the past 13 years I have done extensive research in an attempt to find an answer to this.  My conclusion is not a surprise, it makes total sense. Dogs need the food they are designed for. Altering this compromises their health severely. The larger the dog is - the more it is affected by unhealthy food."
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 04:14:07 am »
What's the proof behind that quote? I'm not following the line of reasoning.

And I was just leaving hip dysplasia out of the discussion by choice. It's such a huge problem compared to other joint issues in dogs, and it's clearly mostly just an issue of inbreeding. I don't think inbreeding in a general sense is what's responsible for the difference between dog and wolf life spans, though. There have got to be some differences in diet and environment in those studies. How would faster aging even be naturally selected for in domesticated dogs? That doesn't make sense.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 04:33:29 am »
The point is that wolves, not remotely so subject to the vast, unpleasant inbreeding done by humans on dogs, still can live till 20 in ideal circumstances with a natural diet of raw meat etc. To put it another way, please give an example of a domesticated breed of dog which routinely lives past 20.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 04:35:21 am »
The point is that wolves, not remotely so subject to the vast, unpleasant inbreeding done by humans on dogs, still can live till 20 in ideal circumstances with a natural diet of raw meat etc. To put it another way, please give an example of a domesticated breed of dog which routinely lives past 20.

Chihuahuas, or any dog under about 15 pounds. And that's on cooked, grainfed dog food and meat.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 04:49:42 am by cherimoya_kid »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 05:41:00 am »
Chihuahuas, or any dog under about 15 pounds. And that's on cooked, grainfed dog food and meat.
Chihuahuas=  10 – 18 years = average lifespan.......
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 05:41:29 am »
Admittedly, lifespan is likely not directly linked to diet per se.....
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 07:50:01 am »
Chihuahuas=  10 – 18 years = average lifespan.......

I've known several personally that made it to 20 on junky diets. It's a bell curve.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 12:08:29 pm »
Domesticated animals which have been rapidly selectively bred to decrease and or increase size are a mixed bag of traits and do not really represent this trend very well.
Large dogs are breed to be large as well as have certain other traits without regard to longevity, so the kind of robustly persistent telomeres traits are not part of the selection process.

Though different  breeds of dog are of the same species they are so far removed from the wolf that their genetic rate of entropy has been altered. Now when talking about two wolfs from the same genetic line, it may be true that the larger members of the pack will exhaust their telomeres much sooner and die earlier as a result(on average)

Just as larger bodied Humans from the same ethnic and environmental conditions will age faster than their smaller counterparts on average, though there are many variables.

Then when talking about cross species age differences the whole telomere frey hypothesis must be thrown out the window. for example.... All Mammals evolved from small shrew like creatures that only lived for around three years or so..... Blue whales the largest animal on the planet are descendants of these pinky sized animals yet somehow they are able to live 70-90 years( the oldest reported to be over 110) If genetic wear and tear was some kind of universal constant then there would be no way for an animal of such size to maintain itself for over a century.

There is indeed other forces at work which hold the ends of chromosomes together much more effectively in some of the higher mammals, especially those whom are a part of multi generational family groups and have a strong need for the guidance of the elders. Perhaps there is even a Will to survive phenomenon that the more consciously intelligent warm blooded beings evolved(humans, whales, apes, African Grey parrots,) that has allowed them to out live many of the lower metabolism creatures of smaller size.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 03:54:24 pm »
I've known several personally that made it to 20 on junky diets. It's a bell curve.
You are quite right. I have just seen a reference to a dog living till 29, for example, and I will admit to not being a pet-owner so am not all that knowledgeable on the subject. I am not convinced that longevity is linked to diet at all therefore, but there is a lot of scientific evidence linking a rise in age-related diseases to an increase in consumption of cooked/processed foods(re evidence of AGE-levels in the body etc.). So maybe we RPDers won't live till 150, but our last few decades will likely be far more pleasant than for most others.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Increased height linked to aging faster
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 09:54:52 pm »
You are quite right. I have just seen a reference to a dog living till 29, for example, and I will admit to not being a pet-owner so am not all that knowledgeable on the subject. I am not convinced that longevity is linked to diet at all therefore, but there is a lot of scientific evidence linking a rise in age-related diseases to an increase in consumption of cooked/processed foods(re evidence of AGE-levels in the body etc.). So maybe we RPDers won't live till 150, but our last few decades will likely be far more pleasant than for most others.

I think a great deal depends on individual circumstances, but I think we probably would average an extra 10-12 years. Very healthy years, relatively, but not much more than that.

Note that I don't think the experiment will have a chance to play out, though. Medical technology is starting, with gene therapy and nano-scale medicine, to really change.

 

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