Author Topic: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men  (Read 7668 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 02:08:53 am »
I recently joined a crossfit gym, and seems the girls over there have always been lifting heavy.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 06:50:57 am »
I would not want my breeding age women / daughters to lift heavier weights like men as that may sabotage any pregnancy they have yet to notice.  Those first 1 or 2 months of life latching onto the uterus... that kind... that may disengage when lifting heavy weights.
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Offline Projectile Vomit

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 07:45:43 am »
I also train in CrossFit, and am surrounded by women who are perfectly capable of lifting heavy weight and have phenomenal physiques. I was sad to read in the article about how Brando attempts to comfort women by saying that lifting heavy won't bulk them up. What's wrong with a women having a powerful physique? I'm so sick of all the gender-based double standards people have.

Offline eveheart

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 08:17:15 am »
I've always used heavy resistance at the gym going back to about the 1970s. It didn't affect my fertility or my ability to carry a pregnancy. It probably (N=1) improved my labors. Whatever "bulk" I carry makes me move gracefully, which looks as good on women as it does on men. When I was ill, my strength worked to my advantage during recovery.

The interesting thing about this article, to me, is the implication that women worry about strength training. This "guru" Brando apparently specializes in meeting and training women with body issues, but that does not give him the right to generalize about women who are normal. He is marketing his services by appealing to the fears of the ultra-girly fringe. How does this make him newsworthy?
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 11:19:36 am »
I've always used heavy resistance at the gym going back to about the 1970s. It didn't affect my fertility or my ability to carry a pregnancy. It probably (N=1) improved my labors. Whatever "bulk" I carry makes me move gracefully, which looks as good on women as it does on men. When I was ill, my strength worked to my advantage during recovery.

Hmmm... nice.  Can you share your heavy resistance regimen during your young fertile times?  May be useful for my daughters who are fast growing up.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 12:29:36 pm »
Hmmm... nice.  Can you share your heavy resistance regimen during your young fertile times?  May be useful for my daughters who are fast growing up.


Sometimes I can't believe the differences in our cultures, GS. From my perspective, your daughters should figure out what they like doing for themselves. If they like exercising in gyms, they'll learn that. There is no special "regimen" - one just uses the equipment at hand, usually some free weights, some machines, and one tries to exercise every muscle in a nice, balanced way. I'm sure gyms in the Philippines are like the ones in the U.S. I rode a bicycle and did yoga, which your daughters can also do if they want. I'd want them to know that they don't have to do anything "for" their fertility. It's there because they are made that way. And, those few years of fertility are nothing when compared to the years and years of childrearing. And, then comes the endless decades of grandparenthood, when everything makes you laugh. Tell your daughters to learn how to laugh often and deeply.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2016, 12:56:04 pm »
I merely mentioned this article because it is a common fear among some women that heavy lifting causes excess muscle-gain.  Come to think of it, the personal trainers I have occasionally used, also recommended that I use higher reps and lower weights(I suspect that they just wanted me to take more lessons in order to achieve results re bigger muscles etc.!).

It is interesting from a palaeo perspective,too. There is some evidence that  excessively overdoing heavy exercise can reduce fertility if precautions are not taken:-

https://www.ntnu.edu/news/hard-workouts-reduced-fertility

The point being that, in Palaeolithic times, women were likely far more subject to increased exercise due to daily activity than nowadays, and reduced fertility, in those days, would have been  more of a blessing of sorts as a matter of survival(note the mass infanticide prevalent in Palaeolithic times, for example). The only other effective contraception, in those days,  was breastfeeding.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with women gaining muscle-mass. I recall a study, I forget where, wherein men in their 70s and 80s were forced to lift weights and train like they did when they were 40. They experienced similiar muscle-mass gain in the end to what they had in their 40s and improved overall. The point being that increased aging has been linked to reduced muscle-mass in the elderly. Plus, reduced muscle-mass can lead to an increased chance of falling in the elderly etc.
eg:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3544703/Best-way-avoid-broken-hip-later-life-Enduring-lifetime-strenuous-outdoor-exercise.html
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 09:22:04 pm »
There is, of course, nothing wrong with women gaining muscle-mass. I recall a study, I forget where, wherein men in their 70s and 80s were forced to lift weights and train like they did when they were 40. They experienced similiar muscle-mass gain in the end to what they had in their 40s and improved overall. The point being that increased aging has been linked to reduced muscle-mass in the elderly. Plus, reduced muscle-mass can lead to an increased chance of falling in the elderly etc.

Exactly! Plus, a strong senior can "do" things like stand up from the seated position, get up from the floor (after playing with grandchildren), carry their own groceries, and do their own home repairs. The exercise necessary to maintain lifelong fitness is not extreme. I don't think I do anything more vigorous than I did working on a farm, but that was a lot of endurance plus heavy lifting.

Fitness "gurus" have make the same "point" that Brando is making forever! It's just marketing! My great-grandmother was a yoga practitioner. My grandmother walked miles every day, including up and down 6 flights of stairs to her apartment. My mother swam a few miles at a time a few times per week. Of all the women I know, nobody considers themselves fearful of having strong muscles. Some women are fearful of breaking their fingernails (even when they can glue them back on) and sweating (because their face paint will run), but these women, while vociferous, are not representative of normal women. Which women are you hanging out with, TD?
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 05:01:24 am »
Unfortunately   ;) , at the current moment, some of the  women "I am hanging out with " "right now ", are over 80, and they are all weirdly obsessed with the late-WW2 notions of " let's cut back, give up, restrict ourselves etc.",  which they developed, as formerly successful routines,  as teens or pre-puberty girls  in WW2. One is now on the  very verge of becoming permanently cripped and incontinent due to inadequate regular  exercise, the other will eventually  give up due to ongoing, increasing osteoporosis. What I cannot understand is my complete inability to convert people to RVAF diets, regardless of their age. It is a bit sad really. I mean, I know some people who have been to Japan, so they know about sashimi etc., but I have no clue about how to convert them. We really need another RVAF diet guru!
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 11:02:31 am »
Unfortunately   ;) , at the current moment, some of the  women "I am hanging out with " "right now ", are over 80, and they are all weirdly obsessed with the late-WW2 notions of " let's cut back, give up, restrict ourselves etc.",  which they developed, as formerly successful routines,  as teens or pre-puberty girls  in WW2. One is now on the  very verge of becoming permanently cripped and incontinent due to inadequate regular  exercise, the other will eventually  give up due to ongoing, increasing osteoporosis. What I cannot understand is my complete inability to convert people to RVAF diets, regardless of their age. It is a bit sad really.

Imagine that! an 80-year old woman who is set in her ways!

There's a favorite saying of mine: "You can either be a shining example or a dire warning." Both kinds of people exist. You complete inability to convert people to RVAF might have everything to do with your audience. Why would you try to convert someone with a 70-year track record of personal neglect. You gotta pretty much walk on water to perform such a miracle because it's equivalent to raising the dead.

If you insist on currying the favor of octogenarians, find some at a gym if you want someone interested in RVAF.

(Haha! I know those old ladies are your great-aunts or something plausible. That generation was different.)
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Offline dariorpl

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 04:22:51 pm »
I merely mentioned this article because it is a common fear among some women that heavy lifting causes excess muscle-gain.  Come to think of it, the personal trainers I have occasionally used, also recommended that I use higher reps and lower weights(I suspect that they just wanted me to take more lessons in order to achieve results re bigger muscles etc.!).

They are trying to prevent you from getting injured. Most injuries during weightlifting happen because of using too much weight. There's very little that a 1 to 3 reps per set routine will accomplish that a 10 to 20 reps one won't, in terms of muscle gains, but there is a lot the first can accomplish that the second is much less likely to, in terms of injuries.

The point being that, in Palaeolithic times, women were likely far more subject to increased exercise due to daily activity than nowadays,

Doubtful. It was the men that hunted and engaged in battles with other tribes, and who fought off non-human predators. And some research suggests that even those men were much less physically active than most fitness enthusiasts today.

and reduced fertility, in those days, would have been  more of a blessing of sorts as a matter of survival(note the mass infanticide prevalent in Palaeolithic times, for example). The only other effective contraception, in those days,  was breastfeeding.

You're still misunderstanding this. Infanticide was for the benefit of the tribe's genes, not for the benefit of the woman's genes. It was in her benefit to have as many babies as possible in order to have as many of them survive and reproduce as possible. Especially when the raising and resource pooling would take place at a tribal level, and so her own contribution to her child's upbringing would be comparatively minimal.

There is, of course, nothing wrong with women gaining muscle-mass. I recall a study, I forget where, wherein men in their 70s and 80s were forced to lift weights and train like they did when they were 40. They experienced similiar muscle-mass gain in the end to what they had in their 40s and improved overall. The point being that increased aging has been linked to reduced muscle-mass in the elderly. Plus, reduced muscle-mass can lead to an increased chance of falling in the elderly etc.

There's a reason why it took incredible levels of media propaganda in order to make men believe that women with six-pack abs and weightlifting arms were attractive. For the vast majority of human history, they were not considered attractive.

Also, selection bias. People who are healthier will have stronger muscles and more of an ability and drive to engage in activities that include exercise. That does not necessarily mean that you can take someone who is unhealthy, force them to exercise against their will, and that this will improve their health. Chances are, it will do the opposite.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 04:35:54 pm by dariorpl »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 08:06:15 pm »
The above is absurd. It has already been well-documented that Palaeolithic-era humans were much stronger than us. Cordain for example pointed to scientific evidence that showed that palaeolithic human bones were much stronger than bones of modern Olympic athletes. The women did not merely forage in bushes but also had to indulge in much higher levels of physical activity, such as carrying burdens etc.

Interestingly, a contest was done where people had to row a recreated trireme for a certain distance. They found that they could not even remotely copy the stamina and speed of the Ancient Greek rowers.
http://www.purplemotes.net/2007/02/11/science-in-action-the-trireme-olympias/


And, no, infanticide had nothing to do with the tribe. Women in those days could not care for more than one baby at a time. That is why in a great many ancient cultures, having twins is considered to be bad luck.
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Offline dariorpl

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 12:32:42 am »
The above is absurd. It has already been well-documented that Palaeolithic-era humans were much stronger than us. Cordain for example pointed to scientific evidence that showed that palaeolithic human bones were much stronger than bones of modern Olympic athletes. The women did not merely forage in bushes but also had to indulge in much higher levels of physical activity, such as carrying burdens etc.

No it's not absurd. Gorillas sit around all day eating leaves, and they are incredibly strong. The same applies to lions, who spend most of their time lazing around and yawning. A healthy animal can develop muscles much more easily and with less intense exercise than a sick one.

And, no, infanticide had nothing to do with the tribe. Women in those days could not care for more than one baby at a time. That is why in a great many ancient cultures, having twins is considered to be bad luck.

Again, you're confusing things. You can't compare cultures with family unions to the ones with tribal unions. The mother was not the only one raising the baby, the whole tribe was.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 03:16:40 am »
Like I said, the scientific evidence re palaeolithic human bones is solid. The only way palaeo humans could have developed such solid bones is via heavy exercise:-

http://www.hngn.com/articles/93132/20150518/human-bones-gotten-weaker-paleolithic-times.htm

Your comment re gorillas is ridiculous. I note that raw vegans use the gorilla example to fraudulently claim that eating raw plants makes one stronger.

The point re  raising children  was apt. The family unit is always quite distinct from tribes as a whole, whether in modern or ancient hunter-gatherer tribes.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 04:43:10 am by TylerDurden »
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Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Trainer says women should lift heavier weights like men
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2016, 04:30:17 am »
Well, chimpanzees spend a lot of time climbing trees, to forage for food and sometimes to rest there, so they do need the muscle mass. They wouldn't be so muscular otherwise, since more muscle mass requires more fuel, and makes you heavier.

Christopher MacDougall explains in his book "Born to Run" it is likely that when humans went in for the persistent running hunting method, the whole family joined in, including the women, because it might be tens of miles before the prey dropped to the ground, and it would be too exhausting and dangerous to carry the carcass back to where they last stayed.

 

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