Paleo/primal village

[RogueFarmer]

I'm not a doctor so I am probably pretty miserable at diagnosing myself, but I can say that I have suffered from depression for around half of time here on earth. I grew up an only child but my early childhood was exceedingly rich as I grew up in the countryside along a large and extremely healthy river. There were few rules in those days, I was to avoid the highway on the hill above our holler, the old abandoned fire house, the well houses (the only rule I broke) and the deep part of the river. I chewed on grass, clover flowers and leaves and wild strawberries. In the winter and throughout most of the year we lived off of venison, wild turkey or fish from the river and lakes. Of course all good things come to an end and since my young parents wanted to make more money and they were staying at my grandma's house they decided to move to the city. Although a very intelligent student who always tested strongly in all categories, I failed many classes and was usually dismissed as a poor student. I easily passed my GED and attended a year of college but after returning to my original home once more after my first year, I worked at an organic vegetable farm which I had originally visited as a young student on a field trip.

This was a life changing event which quickly restored to me a great deal of the vitality I had lost from years of city life. Living close to healthy soil, cuts and scrapes healed quickly with no treatment but dirt and saliva. Fermented vegetables and a renewed steady diet of wild berries helped restore my biological flora and for the first time in 13 years illness and ill thrift were no longer threats on the horizon like they had been before. I tasted my vigor renewed and in the passing years new exploration and my own self education escalated my health to greater and greater heights. However I returned to the city to find my health in crisis and new measures must be learned and taken to create a viable bubble from the toxic funeral that await those who do not take the helm of their destiny. Which of course eventually led me to this forum and many questionable life decisions.

In my own pursuit of health and in execution of my plan, do to a string of close but no cigar experiences in the farming life, I raised healthy happy animals, many generations, 7 in goats, and 3 in cows. Unfortunately in my prolonged endeavor where I maintained my operation almost entirely under my own effort in all but the worst of all years I experienced which lead to the termination of my livelihood 1 year later as taking care of myself in my reduced, PTSD state became my top priority and to my great sadness I said goodbye to the ones who helped me more than any human ever did and were the only thing that ended my 17 years of depression. I couldn't afford to take care of them anymore because I couldn't afford to take care of myself because I didn't have any help, only people who took advantage of me.

It's been over a year since I left where I am from again as I have so many times. I am starting to feel strong again but is still difficult to deal with the pain. I cannot deal with my depression and my job and buying the foods I need to make me healthy. I need a real life. I am getting ready again to start building my life bubble again. I was remotely prepared for the end of western civilization in 2012 with little resources. I am a natural farmer. I have attempted to shape my method of animal husbandry after the greatest practitioners of organic agriculture recorded in books available on earth. I can succeed with a few natural resources, time, dedication and discipline, but to truly succeed in the presence of modernity, I need the help and support my my community, it is crucial, it is fundamental, it is the beginning and the end.

It says in the bible, "cast not pearls before swine, lest they turn and tear you to pieces."

[TylerDurden]

I relate to you.After all, I had awful health-problems for decades and my own family just pretended, at the time,  that I was fine, and claimed that I was just lazy, idle etc. rather than admitting that I had CFS, acute anxiety etc. etc. All I really had to do was avoid dairy and grains  from early infancy onwards and I would have been fine, well, at least  until middle-age..... I wish I had been born during the Palaeolithic era.....

I have no obvious, clear solutions. All I can suggest is that diet cannot solve everything. I, months ago,  found this NP3 Ultimate program, which might well help against depression(just search for the appropriate session). It is free for 2 weeks(of course if you regularly remove all cookies etc., it is permanently free, but please pay the paltry amount if it works for you as that helps them further their research and improve their product) :-

https://www.transparentcorp.com/products/np/

For  the next 10 years or so, I am currently saving up  to start up a market garden of my own in the countryside(ie a farm with 10 acres or so). This will  vastly increase my income and will finally make me  a non-hypocrite as regards a genuine  RPD lifestyle.The main reason for my coming up with this idea was yours' and Iguana's experiences in life. I hope you succeed in your endeavours. It is learned, inspired, self-educated, self-motivated  people like you who inspire the rest of us laymen  to better  ourselves in life. I recall a previous thread on this forum, ages ago,  where I spuriously claimed that fish-farming was always disastrous for human health, and you proved me wrong with a lot of solid evidence. I liked that.

[jessica]

Emil...

[sabertooth]

Many roads are open to those willing to travel.... Im not sure about your individual circumstances, but there are a number of opportunities open to people like yourself who are willing to work.

If you dont have attachments to any particular geographic area there are so many people in this country who would be able to help you. There is a remarkable woman who runs the farm where I get my sheep. She is a biologist, and is very much into the science of animal husbandry and sustainable agriculture. Her and her boyfriend run a local CSA and have a huge garden which is in need of constant work. The last few people who they had helping where flakes whose heart was never into farming. They would love to have someone to stay for the summer season and barter for labor, but there is virtually nobody who is both able and interested in the job in the area.

There seems to be an epidemic of young people who simple have no interest in farm living, so there are a large number of operations who would gladly take on someone who is willing to work in exchange for food, shelter and basic expenses.

[eveheart]

Another idea might be to improve your coping skills to carry you through the less-than ideal parts of your career. One effective way to get through the times of "hating-my-job" is to have an outrageously fun hobby or activity. Basically, you get through the day in eager anticipation of what you get to do after work. Of course, your next outrageously fun activity will probably be finding the next place to live and work, but it might not pan out all in one, perfect display. You might get a ho-hum job in a more rural area, then land your dream job. Just keep trudging forward. Life is all ups and downs.

[RogueFarmer]

Livestock was my passion and hobby, I have worked at more farms then I can remember, I have taken care of or at least been partially involved with virtually all manner of livestock as well as horticultural endeavors and I have spent the better part of my life just trying to connect with what is left of nature. Whenever you step onto property that is owned by someone else, in my experience in America, you are entering into a post slavery serfdom existence. America is a debt society and when you have low income because you are per say a seasonal farm worker, every day you are at risk of forfeiting your assets.

Now there is land in America that can be bought or rented reasonably, but it is a delicate balance of the cost of land which is insane in some places, which are also usually where your best markets are, as well as coping with the rigors of climate, cost of commodities and poorer markets and larger cost of doing business.

To be successful as a modern day farmer, you have to compete with robotic industrial agriculture, by producing high quality and high value products for a reasonable price, with a great deal of manual labor that cannot be replicated by machine, to produce a niche product that is in demand and in limited supply. You have to be an economist and balance your expenditures on land and feed and utilities and fuel and determine your most profitable ventures and you have to be a retailer to obtain premium prices for your wares.

I'm sorry I don't really quite no if I believe in your dream job. I had plenty of amazing jobs for amazing people (that I didn't make enough money to survive very well at least by most people's standards) and I don't think because it didn't work out that per say there was something wrong with where I worked or something wrong with me. Instead I see that I am an independent individual who requires for his own mental health to assert his destiny and feels limited and unable to control his own life when he is giving away everything he has to someone else and doesn't seem himself growing stronger and increasing his wealth but rather the opposite, the weakening and diminishing of health and wealth from working for low wages. Sure I save money but I am caught in a mental struggle where I could spend all my money and eat all that delicious nutritious delicacies or I could again try to accumulate my wealth so that I can enlist an investment in a tool or asset to grow my food.

Hobby? Distraction! So I can waste the last of my energy on entertainment when I spent the rest of it toiling all day in someone else's affair.

Unappreciated, disrespected by society, I am not compensated fairly for the calories I expend and consume, my educators, practitioners, benefactors and employers should be in debt for these lungs they ammoniated, these intestines they perforated, these bones they broke, these teeth they rotted. Or am I to blame?

As you say there are many roads, many options. I think the problem is everyone I work with has had entirely different desires, entirely different dreams. They could not see past their dream, they could not see or hear what I offered them, they only saw what they could take from me.

[eveheart]

... I think the problem is everyone I work with has had entirely different desires, entirely different dreams. They could not see past their dream, they could not see or hear what I offered them, they only saw what they could take from me.

If you think that any of your problems comes from other people, that what might be wrong here. Our only real job here is to take life on life's terms. Like Epictitus said, "Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." If you are troubled by your surroundings, then learn to be untroubled. When you learn how to "be" the man who toils profitably with nature, and it will come about.

In the meantime, you can find something tolerable that helps others - you can never go wrong doing something like that, and helping others takes your mind off your own troubles, which is a good thing.

[sabertooth]

It takes a village to support a farmer....only now there is a global village of people who do not know where their food comes from or who grows it...so farmers on top of having to struggle to make a living also receive less appreciation in the broader world than in generations past.

The only financially successful small scale modern farms I have dealt with have been those run in partnerships. Nobody can do it alone, and finding others who share common goals, work ethics and values can make all the difference in the world.

Also these partnerships typically have other income sources...For example the Lady I get my sheep from is a Part time Biology teacher, who also makes and sells crafts out of alpaca and sheep wool, on top of running a CSA...Her boy friend is an old Farm Hand, who wheels and deals in everything, repairs farm equipment, raises animals and does odd jobs....Between the two of them working constantly at a number of Jobs, they just barely manage to pay the bills and afford a comfortable living. Either of them alone could never keep up with a farm.

I Run my own Hobby farm and remodeled my girlfriends art studio and converted into an Air B & B. I work part time as a free lance handy man, and help run our three rentals, and she is a Massage therapist, and artist. With the two of us working together we do much better than if going at it alone.
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/4334526?checkin=11%2F16%2F2016&checkout=11%2F17%2F2016&s=i050GSnn

If you are truly set on being a farmer then it may be time to think about finding a companion or partner to help with the enterprise.

[Projectile Vomit]

I don't think it's even possible to make a reasonable living at farming anymore, unless you inherit a huge acreage and are willing to grow a subsidized commodity crop. I work in the agricultural sector as a consultant, and 90%+ of the farmers I know who make a living do so largely by having second or even third jobs off-farm to augment their meager farm incomes. Having seen so many negative balance sheets, I marvel at why anyone would want to go into farming.

[cherimoya_kid]

I don't think it's even possible to make a reasonable living at farming anymore, unless you inherit a huge acreage and are willing to grow a subsidized commodity crop. I work in the agricultural sector as a consultant, and 90%+ of the farmers I know who make a living do so largely by having second or even third jobs off-farm to augment their meager farm incomes. Having seen so many negative balance sheets, I marvel at why anyone would want to go into farming.

We have a little hippie town near here full of burnouts from the D.C. rat race. They move to Floyd thinking they can start a little organic farm and live off the land, maybe make a little money....and as you already know, they fail hard, every one of them. Oh well. Their failures help keep the local organic farming supply guy in business. LOL

[goodsamaritan]

Seems subsidy is the way to go.

But just like any business, do it on your computerized spread sheet first for various scenarios.

If you can't make a business work on your computer spreadsheet, then do not go into it.

[eveheart]

I live in this massive factory-farm territory called California. The scale of the farm operations here is staggering, with equipment as big as it can get. For example, field agricultural workers (AKA "the Mexicans" even if they do not come from Mexico) are ferried to the fields in 40' buses with a toilet towed behind the bus. A tractor pulls a "work-station" harvesting conveyor that spans many rows of crop, with the tractor driving forward at an exact pace designed to hurry the workers as fast as they can humanly cut and crate the crop. Adjacent to the harvesting tractor is a tractor trailer, which is filled and driven to a rail station, where the trailers are piggybacked to everywhere. Even the organic farms are huge enterprises. Tucked in among the factory farms are independent specialty farms (like Asian vegetables) on land that has been farmed by the same families for a century.

I had one acquaintance who farmed in California. He started his operation fresh out of college, and his specialty has been raising miniature vegetables on one acre of land. He cultivated a demand for his produce among the expensive restaurants in the San Francisco Bay area. A friend in my community makes $$$$ by selling garden flowers to local florists. Her garden is just her regular-sized urban lot, plus her elderly neighbor's back yard - maybe 1/4-acre at the most. Maybe you can conjure up a vision of your specialty, and envision who would want it (think: rich people, who would also pay $$$$ for your really good chicken and duck eggs). In addition to goodsamaritan's good business-plan spreadsheet idea, remember that success strikes at the right place in the right time, so be there when it strikes. I have started two successful businesses by finding a trend that sounded like it would make a fun business, then working my day job while I got the business up and running.

[RogueFarmer]

I don't think it's even possible to make a reasonable living at farming anymore, unless you inherit a huge acreage and are willing to grow a subsidized commodity crop. I work in the agricultural sector as a consultant, and 90%+ of the farmers I know who make a living do so largely by having second or even third jobs off-farm to augment their meager farm incomes. Having seen so many negative balance sheets, I marvel at why anyone would want to go into farming.

Because not everyone is a gullible shmuch like the majority of farmers who utilize unsound practices.

For gods sakes to even qualify for subsidies you are required to manifest your land into a negative zone of death and destruction, of pestilence and decay. It is not an option for the subsidized farmer, it is the very rule of law. 

Of fucking course they have to work off the farm, they are growing crops that cost more money to grow than they yield. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are competing in sheer numbers of acres, ever 1 acre gets you another check from the government. Every acre of corn, rice, wheat and soy gives you another check. You rent your neighbors field, obliterate the ecology with our most sophisticated technology like we did in Vietnam and you get more checks. So you can fix your tractor. Or buy another field.

I met a guy last summer. He was a corn husker, was his whole life, until 2 years ago, they bought a robot tractor. They farm 4000+ acres.

Everyone is going to look back and they are going to wish they did more. Some day there really will be regrets.

[RogueFarmer]

We have a little hippie town near here full of burnouts from the D.C. rat race. They move to Floyd thinking they can start a little organic farm and live off the land, maybe make a little money....and as you already know, they fail hard, every one of them. Oh well. Their failures help keep the local organic farming supply guy in business. LOL

Where is that? Virginia? Last time I checked a lot of that good country is the highest priced of any state, including Hawaii.

You guys don't know. Organic farming is highly profitable, so much so that you probably wouldn't even need the money you make to pay for anything other than bills and taxes. Food is life. The majority of you guys in my observation fail to grasp the allure of the unknown potential there is for this planet.

Like you guys are talking about good food like per say food x 2 or food x 5. But I don't hear anyone talking Purple Cows.

I have been trying to tell you guys I am pretty sure soon after I joined this forum. Purple cows are the only hope for the planet.

[Projectile Vomit]

You guys don't know. Organic farming is highly profitable, so much so that you probably wouldn't even need the money you make to pay for anything other than bills and taxes.

Just to be clear, the farmers I work with are not commodity growers. I work mostly with grass farmers, and to a lesser extent organic fruit and veg growers. These are the people who are (supposedly) doing everything right. Management intensive grazing, stocking to extend the grazing season, using breeds with excellent feed-conversion ratios, using perennial polycultures and companion planting, compost and compost tea rather than synthetic fertilizers, etc. They still can't make money.

The few exceptions are the ones who manage to carve out a niche market for themselves, like using hoop houses so they can be the first to bring a particular product to market each season or focusing on novelty varieties of foods. Even then their incomes are marginal. They might net $15,000-$20,000 per year per proprietor after investing 80+ hours per week over their growing season. If they have health insurance at all it's a very high deductible plan, which means a serious illness or injury will be financially ruinous. They also have no retirement savings, and some of them can't even afford to eat the food they grow because they so desperately need the cash to pay bills. I've met more than a few farmers who grow high-end organic vegetables or raise high-end meats who are on food stamps.

Commercial farming is not an entrepreneurial venture I'd go into right now. Maybe someday when people are ready to accept food prices that are 2x or 3x what they are today, but not right now.

[cherimoya_kid]

I wonder how much Joel Salatin at Polyface Farms makes.

[Projectile Vomit]

I've often wondered that myself. He's an interesting case, as he has several decent selling books out and gets primo speaker fees. It wouldn't surprise me if more than half his annual income is from off-farm ventures like writing and speaking.

[cherimoya_kid]

I've often wondered that myself. He's an interesting case, as he has several decent selling books out and gets primo speaker fees. It wouldn't surprise me if more than half his annual income is from off-farm ventures like writing and speaking.

I would guess 80-90% is non-farm. But that's not a niche every farmer can get into. Boutique food products are the answer for the short term. Heirloom this and permaculture that and such.

[TylerDurden]

I don't think it's even possible to make a reasonable living at farming anymore, unless you inherit a huge acreage and are willing to grow a subsidized commodity crop. I work in the agricultural sector as a consultant, and 90%+ of the farmers I know who make a living do so largely by having second or even third jobs off-farm to augment their meager farm incomes. Having seen so many negative balance sheets, I marvel at why anyone would want to go into farming.

So, this is presumably a scam?:-

http://permacultureapprentice.com/how-to-make-a-living-from-a-1-5-acre-market-garden/

it is so difficult to tell, these days and I have to constantly read reviews and forums to weed out the frauds. I read online about such gimmicks as making an "underground"(ie self-heating) greenhouse for just 300 dollars etc. My main goal is just to have enough food to feed myself and any animals I have, but I would love to do more, if there was any real chance. There has been some stuff online about "beyond organic" where farms do not bother with the useless organic label but instead use techniques like feeding real, natural raw food to their animals etc. etc.  Is high-end farming of this sort, using rare breeds perhaps worth it?

[TylerDurden]

Sorry, I did not read the whole article before posting my previous comment. I will admit that, in Austria, there are a very few dirt-poor types among indigenous Austrians, and a large part of those happen to be  farmers. That said, some Austrian farmers seem to do very nicely. The great thing about Austrian law is that they apparently do not bother people who just have a small farm and use it to feed themselves or sell just a few eggs and the like etc. at the local farmers' market.It is only when it becomes a large enough business that one has to comply with all the laws and  regulations. I have seen some farms regularly selling products like liqueurs (at 20 euros for a 0.35 litre bottle!) or raw fish roe for hefty sums (I forget which-but in a landlocked country, genuinely raw fish roe is almost unheard of). From what I have learnt so far, it is a big mistake to try to sell cheaply if you are a small business, as you cannot possibly undercut the big companies who want to sell vast quantities of mostly low-quality goods. The best way to go is to sell very high quality items at a large profit-margin per item.

[TylerDurden]

1 minor point:- Even Dr Atkins did not make any real money from his books. Apparently, his biggest profits came from selling supplements. Same with Aajonus, his books did not make much but he made most of his cash via attending primal potlucks and doing iridology exams and making speeches at such events.

[eveheart]

1 major point: Saladin has a healthy sense of optimism. Successful business people in any field of endeavor are optimistic, even amidst great setbacks.

The original poster is drowning in pessimism. He would have to eliminate most of his pessimism - keeping a healthy sense of skepticism - and learn how to see the bright side. Then, he can start a successful farming enterprise. When he learns to create optimism, he will see his paleoprimal village spring to life around him.

[cherimoya_kid]

Optimism comes from having a solid plan.

[eveheart]

Optimism creates a flexible plan that survives the hard work and the setbacks.

[cherimoya_kid]

It takes enough experience/wisdom to know a good plan to begin with.