Getting acclimated to raw fat.....

[HoneyBadger]

So...I'm super sensitive as in I'm very aware of my body and all it's actions. G That being said, textures have always played a major role in my diet. I've never liked  the texture of fat in cooked meats so I'm wondering if anyone has a trick for eating raw fat? I have a feeling I won't be able to stand the texture but I need more fat in my diet. Fatty fish such as salmon seems fine but I can't imagine biting into a chunk of fat and thinking it tastes good. Any suggestions?

[goodsamaritan]

When I minimize my carbs consumption, I like fat more.

And the fat I like tends to be those from higher quality animals.

Say blue marlin belly sashimi... mouth watering...
Say yellowish muscle fat from high quality beef... mouth watering... same with bone marrow jelly like fresh... ooohhh.
And when none of those are available, organic raw duck egg yolk is a temporary substitute.

Avocado just ripe is good.
Coconut young tender meat is good, some people like the coconut milk from the hardened meat.

Taste and taste and taste and discover new animals, new sources.

Some animal sources taste better even if it is the same animal species.

[eveheart]

As far as beef fat goes, most of what I eat is on the meat I buy. I just have to make sure that the butcher doesn't trim the fat. I also ask for extra trim from the back fat, my favorite fat. My other favorite fats in beef is pericardial fat, bone marrow, and oxtail fat. I never eat the caul fat.

[sabertooth]

 Bone marrow would be the most mild place to begin.

My recommendation would be..... Do not eat any plant foods prior to taking some of the fattiest cuts of paleo quality meat you can buy and eating it with a side of bone marrow. 

 Suet and the cual fat typically have a rough dry texture which may take some time to get accustom to, but it is usually cheap and can be used to add fat to the diet, especially if fatty cuts and marrow cannot be easily found. My little secret to make dry and waxy suet more palatable is to cut it into small chunks and dip it into melted coconut butter, Its so good this way that even my picky children will eat it. 

I personally eat copious amounts of animal fat daily, and in order to obtain the right nutritional balance will eat every type of fat on the animal. I will also eat around 4 tablespoons of coconut butter per day, a couple of raw eggs and the occasional avocado.

I would recommend trying all the forms of fat for yourself, and experiment to figure out what works best for you. Some people naturally take to higher fat diets than others, and there may be an adjustment period when increasing the amount. Since fats and carbs do not typically digest well together I suggest intermittent fasting of around 12 hours before eating large amounts of raw animal protein and fat.

[HoneyBadger]

GS- Raw Marlin sounds fantastic!!! Just thinking about it makes my mouth water, too bad it's hard to come by down here .   Coconut meat is another great idea for acquiring enough fat and I love coconuts so thanks for that suggestion! I will continue to try different cuts and types of fat to see which works the best for me.

Sabertooth-How would one go about getting some bone marrow? Would it be as simple as asking for some bones from the butcher and then cracking them open? I've never tried marrow before. Also, why do you suggest not eating any plant foods prior to eating fat?  Does it interfere with the digestion of the meat and fats? You mention an "adjustment period" when increasing fats and lowering carbs...what exactly might this look like as far as pleasant/unpleasant symptoms go? I'm thinking of doing a 30%protein/50%fat/20%carbs split-up or something along those lines. I am also practicing IF at the moment so typically I'll eat a carb meal (veggies, minimal fruit) around 2-3pm and then I'll eat my last meal of animal meat and fats around 8pm.  I liked the suggestion to dip the fat in coconut oil, I think this would help disguise the taste and texture more and look forward to trying this little trick!

[Projectile Vomit]

In my experience the texture and taste of fat from cattle changes over the year. I've found that suet (for instance) tastes delectable and is of a soft, almost buttery texture when the animals are harvested in June and July, which is when they've been eating fairly lush fresh forage here in Vermont for at least a month. Prior to June the suet is not as pleasing in terms of taste and texture, as the animals haven't been on fresh forage long enough for their body fat to transition away from its winter texture, which is dry and crumbly as Derek (sabertooth) mentioned. The suet starts transitioning towards that dry and crumbly texture late in July as even fresh forage is getting dry and cattle are eating natural grain from grasses that are starting to bolt, which influences the fatty acid content in their meat and fat.

[HoneyBadger]

Eric-Very interesting and worthwhile information about the suet and it's texture change through the seasons! Thank you for that

[sabertooth]

It seems you have a good idea of where to start. I personally went directly into high fat low carb(under 10%) and didn't experience any problems with adjustment....but whenever I do eat larger portions of plant matter(especially fruit) I have found that it interferes with my ability to digest fat....feeling bloated, and loose oil bowl movements have taught me to limit the amount of plant foods.......so if you are still consuming fruits and other starchy vegetables, you may want fast afterward and eat your fatty meals without plant foods....much of this will depend upon your own constitution and you will have to experiment a little to find your own optimal balance.       

Obtaining a decent and affordable source of raw animal fats like bone marrow and suet is a thread onto itself. Much your success in obtaining optimal sources depends on where you live and to what length you are willing to go to get what you are looking for. I would try to go directly to the source....check out local farmers markets for pasture raised meats, and ask them if they know where to get marrow and other fat trim. Search the internet for farms in your area that process their own animals and call around, even if the people you talk to cant help you they may be able to send you to someone who can.

[HoneyBadger]

Sabertooth-Isn't it true that ketosis can't take place if one is consuming over 100g of carbs? I find on some days I meet my carb requirements and then other days my carbs are under 100g. Don't know if this is harmful or too confusing for the body though as far as going in and out of ketosis.  I generally eat my meat alone or with an avocado or some sauerkraut which seems to be fine on my digestion. I find it difficult to combine my meats with any other veggies/fruits so usually don't.

I do have a good source for grass-fed beef so I'm sure they could provide me with some bones if I ask!

[sabertooth]

These numbers and ratios are only basic approximations, and much of what exactly is involved in maintaining optimal ketosis, is dependent on numerous variables that do not conform to exact measurements.

After long periods of time on low carb diets the body goes into states of adaptation which go beyond ketosis...the liver becomes much better at Gluconeogenesis, providing an even supply of glucose derived from proteins. The metabolism becomes much more efficient at using Ketones, so the acetone breath effect goes away and the body becomes better able to instinctively regulate its ratio of food intake so that using measurements no longer is necessary.

Optimally in the well adapted low carb dieter, Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenisis will find a balance so that the body does not undergo ketone or protein overload which can be an issue when begining the adaptation process.

Much of the debate regarding the threshold of carbs one is allowed to eat without throwing off Gluconeogenesis/ketogenisis balance is ongoing. It is my opinion that there are no exact answers because the levels will vary from person to person.....and there are also differences in degrees of adaptation.

I personally live on the extreme side of low carb high fat and notice when my carb intake goes over around 50 grams per day for an extended period of time I will begin to have problems maintaining my balance.. its hard for me to know if its the carbs in themselves or if its a combination of carbs with the excess plant fiber interfering with fat and protein digestion.

These days I dont even think about my level of carb intake . I typically eat what I crave and run primarily on instinct, if one day I eat to many carbs I will feel it the next day and avoid eating any until I get a craving for it again....

My primary concern regarding ratios are the fat/protein portions. If I get too much protein and not enough fat I will feel the symptoms of protein overload, to the point where I will not eat any lean meat if I dont have enough fat to go with it.   

[HoneyBadger]

Ahhhhh, ketosis appears to be a much more complicated matter than I had originally thought!  As a newbie, I've calculated that I generally get function quite well on anywhere between 50-100g of carbs depending on how intense my workouts are. You mention finding a good fat/protein ratio. Would you mind expounding on what ratios you feel best at for fat and protein? I know that ratios would vary from person to person and find that my own ratios are about 90 g of protein to about 100g of fat. You talk about feeling the "symptoms of protein overload", I'm curious as to how these manifest and what a newbie like me should look out for when it comes to finding the right balance between protein and fat?
Thanks!

[sabertooth]

Ive long ago given up on keeping numerical track of ratios, and now balance meal portions through sense and intuition. When fat supply is limited compared to lean meat I will often have to be more careful about how much protein I eat to avoid protein overload. When fat is plentiful I can practically eat my fill of both fat and protein and my body will tell me when Ive had enough of each. If given the chance I will typically over eat fat, which isn't a problem other than the excess fat which cant be absorbed is not used by the body and is wasted.

Over time I've become more able to tolerate higher levels of protein for short periods, until more fat can be scored, but typically after a few days of increased protein to fat ratios I begin to feel the imbalance caused by excess protein. Some of the symptoms are excess thirst, loss of apatite, low energy, malaise, dark urine, bad taste in the back of the mouth, lack of mental concentration, intense craving for fat....

90 grams of protein for 100 grams of fat, is roughly 35/65  protein to fat ratio which is very close to the range I maintain. When I have more fat available I will often go to a slightly higher fat% 30/70.

My optimal average calorie composition would be roughly 5-10% carbs  25-30% protein and 60-65% fat.

[eveheart]

Ive long ago given up on keeping numerical track of ratios, and now balance meal portions through sense and intuition.

Same here. I'm at (approx) 5% carb, 20% protein, 75% fat, but there are many days where I eat no carbs (or more carbs) and don't pay attention to the variation. Like yesterday, I was swarmed by my grandchildren, each with a bowl of blueberries, and they wanted to feed me the small ones with their little fingers. What fun for little kids! Should I have said, "Wait!, I need to weigh those and look up the carbs first?" If you don't relax about the calculations, you end up weighing and recording every bite to get your carb goal, and you're like, "That was 3 grams for the avocado and 1 gram for the lemon juice." There is no pay-off for that degree of accuracy. Ketosis is easy; don't make it complicated. The balance that Sabertooth is explaining takes care of "being in ketosis" once your appetite gets used to it.

[HoneyBadger]

Sabertooth & Eveheart-I appreciate the responses and found them helpful.  I know I need to ease up on trying to calculate and weigh everything out.  I'm a very regimented person though and came from a bodybuilding diet where I was supposed to weigh out and calculate macros as closely as possible and I'm finding it difficult to break out of that, being as that it became second nature to me.  I've gotten pretty good though and decreased my incessant need to calculate everything by just trying to consume a set amount of calories (as I still have goals in the gym and need to be following a restricted calorie diet to some degree) but have been letting intuition guide me daily as to what my percentages of fat, protein, and carbs are. Some days I intuitively eat more fat than carbs and some days I feel better consuming more carbs than fat. I don't think I will worry about going in or out of ketosis quite yet but am rather trying to become accustom to better listening to my body and giving it what it wants on a daily basis.

[ciervo-chaman]

Personally i have to suck and lick fats (not chew) to enjoy the full flavor of fat.

If i bite on fat, it's like too much and is kinda disgusting. But sucking slowly is the most enjoyable experience i have when eating. So many different flavors on little pieces of fat. Be it butter, flax oil, or any animal flesh fat.

I think it has something to do with salivary enzymes breaking down fat and releasing the flavor from it. If you chew big piece, you beed too much enzymes and you will not feel the good flavour.

My 2 cents