Author Topic: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?  (Read 7727 times)

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Offline goodsamaritan

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What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« on: April 20, 2009, 10:30:19 am »
Lex and I got into an extended conversation in Tundra's thread at http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/omnivorous-raw-paleo/share-your-typical-menu-for-the-day/

Maybe we need to input our concept of what raw paleo diet is.  Definition of terms so to speak.

My definition as I understood it is raw paleolithic diet is raw organic / wild fruits, vegetables, animal food.

This video summarizes Paleo diet, but they show cooked food.  So just make it raw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnGNZ6RDjlg
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Offline glennm01

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 10:54:27 am »
Funny quote from that video:

"...remember to always eat vegetables with your meat, because eating only meat is likely to get you killed in the long run."

Uh huh.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 11:20:25 am »
Here is Loren Howe explaining the effectivity of Paleo Diet in curing diseases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVn-jmCi4zI

Maybe we guys can make a better video in the future explaining what raw paleo diet is?

----

Cordain Defines Paleo Diet:

"With readily available modern foods, The Paleo Diet mimics the types of foods every single person on the planet ate prior to the Agricultural Revolution (a mere 500 generations ago). These foods (fresh fruits, vegetables, lean meats, and seafood) are high in the beneficial nutrients (soluble fiber, antioxidant vitamins, phytochemicals, omega-3 and monounsaturated fats, and low-glycemic carbohydrates) that promote good health and are low in the foods and nutrients (refined sugars and grains, saturated and trans fats, salt, high-glycemic carbohydrates, and processed foods) that frequently may cause weight gain, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and numerous other health problems. The Paleo Diet encourages dieters to replace dairy and grain products with fresh fruits and vegetables -- foods that are more nutritious than whole grains or dairy products."

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/#Basics
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 11:35:24 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline invisible

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 04:37:23 pm »
Cordain is using "paleo" as a marketing tool to promote a standard low fat plant based diet by the looks of things.

A paleo diet is a high fat raw animal food based diet. Small ammounts of plants are optional. The fact that plants existed in paleo times does not mean that unlimited quantity of plants in the diet is still paleo. Lions are surrounded entirely by plants - they do not eat them though. Very little plants were eaten by paleo man I think. "Lean" meat is cringe worthy to read. If they are going to promote paleo have some guts. Don't just put "Lean" in there to sell books. Paleo man ate fat.

The truth that humans are evolutionary carnivores is likely never going to be promoted in books or the media. It's not profitable.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 05:20:19 pm »
Even Cordain isn't promoting a plant-based diet(his version of what is palaeo means a diet of 65% animal food and 35% plants, so it's more meat-based). As regards the fat issue, Cordain has a point. In the wild animals are usually much leaner due to exercise plus they don't feed on grains but on grass etc. so they don't fatten up as quickly as domesticated animals.Then there's the fact that winter always results in wild animals losing their stores of fat and needing the spring to get them back up.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 06:20:56 pm »
It's very difficult to say what a palaeo diet is. I would guess that the proportion of fruit/veg in the diet  would have been higher in the tropics during Palaeo times, with more northerly tribes ating almost exclusively meats/organs.

The one thing we can all agree on is what a Palaeo diet isn't:-ie no dairy, no grains, no preservatives, no chemicals, no junk food/hydrogenated fats.
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William

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 03:01:48 am »
I agree with Invisible.

Offline invisible

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 08:50:52 am »
regarding fat in the diet. During paleo times the whole animal was eaten - the muscles, marbling, suet, fat, marrow, organs. It is totally inaccurate to compare the separable lean muscle tissue of grass fed animals to feedlot beef and deduct that paleo had less fat. They had access to MUCH more fat.

Look at the diet of carnivores today. Wild animals like buffalo, zebra, elephants even deer have plenty of fat when the whole animal is eaten and eaten raw.

William

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 12:22:05 pm »
regarding fat in the diet. During paleo times the whole animal was eaten - the muscles, marbling, suet, fat, marrow, organs.

Recent experience of those who were travelling in conditions believed to similar to paleo is that they killed a large grazing animal and ate only the fatty parts, leaving the lean for scavenging animals. (Lewis & Clark)
In summer camps they also ate innards selectively.

There was no fruit or vegetables as we know it, so from the bone analysis of paleolithic man, the diet had to be fat meat.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 01:27:03 pm »
Hi William,

Are these the correct URLs?
http://www.lewis-clark.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_and_Clark_Expedition

Can you point me to their diet section?

I made a short google tryst and found

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/12/1204_031204_lewisclark.html

http://lewisandclarktrail.org/hunting.htm

The URL says they ate vegetables and fruits.

I wonder how much raw meat they ate vs cooked meat?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 01:55:22 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Offline invisible

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 08:00:17 pm »
wow it says they consumed 9 pounds of meat per day.

William

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 09:46:30 pm »
Are these the correct URLs?
http://www.lewis-clark.org/
Can you point me to their diet section?
The URL says they ate vegetables and fruits.
I wonder how much raw meat they ate vs cooked meat?
Yes, these are correct. I have never read the original account, so cannot help with diet section.
Yes, they would have eaten veg. and fruits when available, please keep in mind that people have believed for generations that they would die without them. Apparently not much, though.
I doubt if they ate any raw meat, someone correct me if wrong, prejudice against that has always been very strong, and note the "nine pounds of meat per day" - this is only possible with cooked meat. IMHO


Offline rafonly

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 02:14:50 am »

1 way to find out is to check the paleological/archeological record: there are means to determine whether certain fossils are inorganic or org -- c12 vs c13 etc

luckily, there's something even easier to do & no phd required:
look w/ your own eyes, observe, examine the cro-magnon cave paintings & see what you see

in fact, a bit of it is even here in this very forum (besides the top of all windows as a backdrop for the forum name):
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/spirituality/cave-paintings/10/
esp the last 2 replies (17-18)

if you're interested, there are lots of more "cave painting" images at google image & other online or printed sources, though

"time & gradient precede existence", me

Offline rafonly

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cave art
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 03:11:01 am »
"time & gradient precede existence", me

Satya

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2009, 12:48:39 am »
Good thinking, Rafonly. 

I say animal foods and wild fruits when they are available, in your local region.  That means not partaking of any fruit that has been bred or planted by man.  Not as easy as it seems.  The only reason fruits are so abundant now is because of human intervention.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: What's your concept of raw paleo diet and lifestyle?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2009, 01:32:30 am »
Yes, these are correct. I have never read the original account, so cannot help with diet section.
Yes, they would have eaten veg. and fruits when available, please keep in mind that people have believed for generations that they would die without them. Apparently not much, though.
I doubt if they ate any raw meat, someone correct me if wrong, prejudice against that has always been very strong, and note the "nine pounds of meat per day" - this is only possible with cooked meat. IMHO

I've read and studied the Lewis and Clark Journals quite extensively. There are several important points to keep in mind.  First, the year 1804 hardly qualifies as being squarely in the Paleolithic period.  We had already gone well beyond Paleolithic, through Mesolithic, and into Neolithic.  Also, almost all tribes were already trading with "the whiteman", and were well on their way to adopting European customs.  They also had very sophisticated tools and weapons, as well as fully domesticated animals which is far removed from what little we know about their Paleo ancestors.

The accounts of killing and eating bison while traveling through the Great Plains area states that the Expedition would make a kill, butcher the animal, and then roast it over an open fire.  While the explorers were waiting for the meat to cook, the Native Americans would eat the cast-off organ meats and offal raw.

As for the large consumption of food by the Expedition members, remember that these explorers were doing incredible physical labor.  They were rowing against the river current all day long, and often porting the boats and supplies around rapids and falls that could not be directly negotiated.  There are few people in our modern world that come anywhere near close to this kind of energy expenditure day, after day, after day, for months on end.  Probably the closest we come is something like the Tour de France bicycle race, and even then I'm not sure it's fully comparable.  Yes, there are some intense sports, but they are very short term - usually hours in duration and certainly not weeks or months.

There are accounts of tribes, not in the Great Plains area, migrating long distances in the spring and summer to kill and preserve animal meat to be taken back to their home area.  Also accounts of the Natives eating selective roots and some plants during the winter months to avoid total starvation.

Very fascinating and well worth reading, but the bottom line is that this is an account of explorers of European decent, encountering modern Hunter Gatherers with rather sophisticated technologies compared to what true paleo man would have had.  Even so, it is pretty clear that even at this late date the preferred diet of Native Americans was meat based and plant foods were used mainly for survival when the meat ran out.  Also, it was the explorers that cooked their meat, not the Natives.

Lex

 

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