liver pains with high meat

[shaya1]

has anybody ever experienced liver or gallbladder pains with high meat? Every time i eat some high meat, i experience some liver pains for the next 24 hours or so. Its my first go-around with this, so i have not other experience.

Im also considering it might be the  source of meat that i got it from. Its never been frozen, and is free range, but the owner had some brain trauma a while back and isnt quite there sometimes. Which now, im wondering if he didnt take care of the cattle like he should have, or is this something that happens to some individuals when they start eating high meat. 

thank you

[shaya1]

a little update. I decided to continue eating high meat, and the pain seems to be easing up........must of been a detox or something

[TylerDurden]

Yes, it might be detox. On the other hand, if this continues for more than a month, say, it cannot be detox, imo. I have never heard of this happening with high-meat consumption. Detoxes usually last just a  few days but some people can have them for a few weeks(especially at the start of the diet).... There is also the possibility that the animals were given some chemicals/antibiotics that harmed you. I remember once making a big mistake after some years of being rawpalaeo - I went to Tesco's supermarket and bought some so-called "organic" pears. I then had diarrhea and stomach-pain for that day and the day after. This was definitely no detox but a reaction to some chemical/fertiliser etc. that they must have put on the fruit.

[cherimoya_kid]

Pears tend to give me stomach cramps.

[TylerDurden]

Pears tend to give me stomach cramps.

Really? That's strange. Then again, I do not seem to digest raw tropical fruits well, myself. In my case, I have never had a problem with pears except that one time. Tesco's is notorious for cheating both suppliers and customers so I don't think it was some personal allergy etc.

[JeuneKoq]

Pears tend to give me stomach cramps.

I'm also careful with pears. Sometimes they give me gas.

[shaya1]

update number two. So the liver pains have seemed to come back. Im not ready to throw in the towel yet, but i have to be careful cause in the past, ive pushed through things thinking that its just a detox, and seriously messed myself up. However, i cant really see where anybody has seriously messed their selves up eating high meat. At least i havent come across anybody on this forum. I know this forum is to help promote this sort of thing, so i would imagine that these type of stories arent talked about much, but it would be nice to read these accounts just to consider.

For some of you veterans, have any of you come across anybody that gave it a good shot, and for whatever reason, they regretted it? Or have any of you heard of someone going through a detox like this but pushed through it, and was happy they pushed through it?

Just to confirm that im not a troll, Ive been eating raw meat for quite a while, and am really happy with it. Its been a life saver for my insomnia

[eveheart]

update number two. So the liver pains have seemed to come back.

If you're thinking that there is something wrong with the meat or with your high-meat-making procedure, why not fill us in on some of the details - how are you making the meat high, how much you are consuming, etc. Has it been the same batch that bothered you? In general, what else are you eating?

[TylerDurden]

I've been on RPD forums for many years and never(until now) come across any negative stories about "high-meat" consumption. Well, OK, a very few members reported not being able to sleep afterwards if they ate "high-meat" in the evening or at night, but that  was because they felt so wired/energetic after eating the "high-meat". Not all that negative, per se. And I somehow doubt that there is a conspiracy to silence RPDers who complain about high-meats! 


This does NOT negate your experience. My own take on this is:- everyone is different, we all have different bodies, different genetics, different health-conditions, so it is wiser to depend on one's own intuition/common-sense in the end. The latter does not always work(for example, when I first started RVAF diets I went in big time for raw dairy, and I duly found out that I was allergic to the stuff- being allergic to a food often causes unnatural cravings for that very food. However, all in all, it is best to rely on one's own gut-feelings/symptoms. Unless you are desperate, I would strongly suggest you abstain from the high-meat for now and try other things. Who knows? Maybe you are an unusual RVAFer who cannot handle high-meat at all but positively thrives on raw, fresh, wildcaught seafood? Other possibilities exist:- maybe you can only handle "high-meat" in the form of raw, aged fish but cannot stand high-meat from land-mammals? Anything is possible and we are all varied individuals. For example, I only like the taste of "high-meat" in the form of raw aged heart  or tongue and cannot  stand the taste of other high-meats. I also find that my body cannot properly absorb raw liver  or raw suet(I soon afterwards get quasi-diarrhea from them). I also get nasty stomach-aches after eating raw coconut-oil, yet I have never found another RVAFer who claimed to have the same symptoms from the stuff.

[shaya1]

If you're thinking that there is something wrong with the meat or with your high-meat-making procedure, why not fill us in on some of the details - how are you making the meat high, how much you are consuming, etc. Has it been the same batch that bothered you? In general, what else are you eating?

thanks for the reply eveheart, and a willingness to help. When i went into this, i wanted to make sure i did it right, and i had come across some of tylers suggestions to go with unfrozen. So i found a free range farmer, and i happen to have a friend that works at a slaughter house and was able to get unfrozen meat. I put it in the fridge and aired it out once every three days like suggested

a little background on myself

Ive had a history of heal issues, even when i was really young. I found out later in life that my mother and father were huge marijuana  smokers when i was conceived, and my mom never stopped smoking while carrying me. She said she smoked daily. Once i was born, my mom would shotgun smoke into my lungs to get me to stop crying. My brother doesnt have health issues like i do, and my mom never smoked with him, so im guessing that the daily marijuana consumption probably did some damage. Im not sure if its reversible, but im giving it my best shot. Dont get me wrong, im pro marijuana legalization, but considering that we have our own endocannabinoid system in our bodies, and when you artificially supply huge amounts of cannabinoids  while a baby is gestating, i would imagine that it would be like a body builder taking testosterone and their own bodies start shutting down its own source of testosterone and the testicles start to shrink. Its all speculation tho, and doesnt really explain my situation.

im eating two pieces about the size of a large marble in the morning, and just swallowing it whole. Im thinking that theres probably nothing wrong with the way i made it. It could be something in the meat itself, but im leaning more towards that the beneficial bacteria in the meat is doing something in my system.......im hoping that its a true detox


if this is a true detox, i thought that maybe if someone else was going through the same thing, that my post will be encouraging to them. Im hoping the end result will be that i poop out some massive nasty things, and my life will improve. But im also considering, that it may be something harmful in the meat.

[shaya1]

I've been on RPD forums for many years and never(until now) come across any negative stories about "high-meat" consumption. Well, OK, a very few members reported not being able to sleep afterwards if they ate "high-meat" in the evening or at night, but that  was because they felt so wired/energetic after eating the "high-meat". Not all that negative, per se. And I somehow doubt that there is a conspiracy to silence RPDers who complain about high-meats! 


This does NOT negate your experience. My own take on this is:- everyone is different, we all have different bodies, different genetics, different health-conditions, so it is wiser to depend on one's own intuition/common-sense in the end. The latter does not always work(for example, when I first started RVAF diets I went in big time for raw dairy, and I duly found out that I was allergic to the stuff- being allergic to a food often causes unnatural cravings for that very food. However, all in all, it is best to rely on one's own gut-feelings/symptoms. Unless you are desperate, I would strongly suggest you abstain from the high-meat for now and try other things. Who knows? Maybe you are an unusual RVAFer who cannot handle high-meat at all but positively thrives on raw, fresh, wildcaught seafood? Other possibilities exist:- maybe you can only handle "high-meat" in the form of raw, aged fish but cannot stand high-meat from land-mammals? Anything is possible and we are all varied individuals. For example, I only like the taste of "high-meat" in the form of raw aged heart  or tongue and cannot  stand the taste of other high-meats. I also find that my body cannot properly absorb raw liver  or raw suet(I soon afterwards get quasi-diarrhea from them). I also get nasty stomach-aches after eating raw coconut-oil, yet I have never found another RVAFer who claimed to have the same symptoms from the stuff.

thanks tyler. I'll defiantly try making high meat out of heart next time.

one other thing that i failed to mention is some joint issues that have aggravated me on and off for years have started to flair again. (right hip and shoulder aches) My initial thought is that my meridian flow that runs through the liver is being bogged down for either a good reason or bad, im not sure, but the lack of flow of energy, is doing something to these joints. Dunno for sure tho

 I dont want to give up yet. At this point in my life, its either do or die. And from what you say, you havent come across any stories  where high meat was bad. Im so miserable of being miserable, and  im to the point where im gonna get better, or run this ship into the shore.

[TylerDurden]

One minor addition to my last post:-  Aajonus' recommendations re marble-sized portions of "high-meat"  did not work for me. I needed much higher amounts of "high-meat"  at the time in order to get the "wow" effect that Aajonus talked about. Indeed, I did even better with plateful-sized amounts of "high-meat". What I am trying to say is, perhaps, try higher amounts of "high-meat". Now, if the higher amounts cause even worse symptoms, then you can reasonably be certain that "high-meat",  for now, is a problem for you.

[TylerDurden]

 And from what you say, you havent come across any stories  where high meat was bad. Im so miserable of being miserable, and  im to the point where im gonna get better, or run this ship into the shore.

Even so, despite my own experience and my knowledge of others' , it is always possible that a rare  individual like you may have some form of intolerance towards "high-meat". Maybe not permanently,  maybe you will thrive on high-meat in 2 years time.....

[shaya1]

Even so, despite my own experience and my knowledge of others' , it is always possible that a rare  individual like you may have some form of intolerance towards "high-meat". Maybe not permanently,  maybe you will thrive on high-meat in 2 years time.....

Thanks Tyler. Im gonna try some higher amounts and see how it turns out. I know i have liver issues, cause i see a strong line running in my iris where the liver is, so im hoping that this bacteria is doing something good. The pain i have reminds me of the pain i got when i took some fresh black walnut hulls for parasites. About 8 years ago, i started playing around with dewormers. None of them worked for me. I spent a lot of money on them. So in the fall one year when black walnuts were dropping, i thought i would make my own. I took one dose and about 6 hours later, it felt like i had a stiff neck in my liver. I had it for a day or two, and then i decided to do a liver flush and it was gone the next day. This is sort of  what it feels like but not quite as severe. However, it does seem like the pain is subsiding again. At least today it was almost unnoticeable


Another question. Do you happen to know of what kind of bacteria is found in the later stages of high meat? I was thinking that it goes through quite a few different varieties of bacteria before it settles into the final flora. Id be interested in researching this bacteria

[goodsamaritan]

Consider eating apples and doing some liver flushes.

[TylerDurden]

Another question. Do you happen to know of what kind of bacteria is found in the later stages of high meat? I was thinking that it goes through quite a few different varieties of bacteria before it settles into the final flora. Id be interested in researching this bacteria

I am sorry, this is all intuitive, and based on personal experience and that of others on a RVAF diet. Also, the kind of bacteria can be utterly irrelevant. For example, Aajonus once pointed to a study that showed that c. 38% of american households contained the salmonella bacteria yet had no evidence of illnesses as a result. I still think you should quit the "high-meat" experience for now at least....

[shaya1]

Consider eating apples and doing some liver flushes.

thanks for the advice goodsamaritian. I would of given the liver flush advice as well. Ive done well over 200 of them. I know you probably think im exaggerating, but im not. I had a severe eating disorder and they helped tremendously (i did other things as well). They also helped my insomnia. Who would of ever thought that a clogged liver would manifest in that way. I expelled a ton of stones. Many were calcified, so im guessing they were in there for years.

As far as the apples, years ago i binged on apples and now i can really tolerate them very much.

anyway, youre spot on with the congested liver. I just think that for some reason the bile is congealing in the bile duct and the ducts in the liver for some reason, and it continues to do so. Im hoping that the bacteria will help correct this.

[shaya1]

I am sorry, this is all intuitive, and based on personal experience and that of others on a RVAF diet. Also, the kind of bacteria can be utterly irrelevant. For example, Aajonus once pointed to a study that showed that c. 38% of american households contained the salmonella bacteria yet had no evidence of illnesses as a result. I still thin you should quit the "high-meat" experience for now at least....

Ok, thanks again for the help tyler. Im just taking it slow right now. There are benefits that i get from the high meat that i like, like more energy in the morning, so im slightly hesitant to give it up. The joint pain only comes when i take a little more than normal, but im still not convinced that its a bad thing. I still get liver pains slightly, but its not bad like it was. I know you are offering good advice however, and i appreciate that.......thanks

[sabertooth]

The liver congestion may have another cause? and high meat may just be a trigger that signals a food combination issue?

Dairy, processed oils and grains always caused me liver congestion.... you could be consuming other congestive foods, which simply do not combine well with highmeat?

[cherimoya_kid]

Joint pains from high meat may be slight gout from the purines. I know I tend to get gout in my thumbs from beef liver and high meat.

[shaya1]

Consider eating apples and doing some liver flushes.

update number 3.

 I woke up this morning with severe pain in between my shoulder blades. Knowing this is big sign that i need to do a liver flush, im going to take this advice anyway. I was hesitant to do another one cause the last couple of times i did one, i didnt pass any stones. But high meat is absolutely doing something in my liver. Could it be that the bacteria  is eating the dead crap in my liver (considering this type of bacteria favors dead flesh), and is allowing the liver metabolism to kick in and the stones are starting to move towards the gallbladder? (some gallstones are initially formed in the liver)  Im not sure and i probably should consider its a bad thing as well.

On a positive note, ive had angina off and on for probably 8 years, and its progressively been getting worse the last year. I have had a feeling that it was an infection of some sort cause exercise would make it feel better sometimes and when i would take olive leaf it would go away for a while. But then it would come back and then olive leaf didnt work anymore. I tried a bunch of other things, and nothing worked accept for recently i discovered coconut oil (which has antimicrobial properties), and i have been taking it daily for the passed month, cause i was getting the pain daily if i didnt take it. However i havent taken it for the past 5 days, and havent had any angina. It could be coincidence, but its another reason why i want to push through and continue taking the high meat

[shaya1]

thanks for the suggestions cherimoya_kid and sabertooth. I'll defiantly keep those ideas in mind

[shaya1]

update number 3 continued.

I forgot to mention that my joint pain is gone that i was having in my shoulders and hip. I didnt notice any yesterday, and the day before it was a lot better but there subtly

[sabertooth]

If you have been on olive leaf extract or have used other cleansing protocol then you are likely off balance in your gut flora, which can lead to a broad range of food intolerance and inability of the liver to cope with metabolic waste.

Beware of over cleansing, the liver can clean and heal itself if given the proper nourishment and with the support of a dynamic micro biome. Too much cleansing will clear away the beneficial microbes and will leave you open to imbalances, which can be made worse by eating the wrong foods.

The optimal gut balance is such a delicate thing, it must be cultivated carefully and naturally, perhaps if high meat is too much of a shock to your system, you could start slower with some traditional dry aged meats, or small amounts of some other kinds of fermented foods.

[shaya1]

If you have been on olive leaf extract or have used other cleansing protocol then you are likely off balance in your gut flora, which can lead to a broad range of food intolerance and inability of the liver to cope with metabolic waste.
 

Im beginning to believe this. I was very hesitant to do another liver flush cause after doing more than 200, i was no better off in certain ways. Some ways it did help, but in other ways, i felt like i was getting worse. This may or may not have anything to do with liver flushing tho.