Insulin, Growth Hormone, bulking

[Paleo Donk]

If you are doing 245 with bad/improper form you really need to back off and get the form down right. This is extremely important for further progress.

The type of squat you are doing is going to dictate the amount of depth, back angle, knee extension, knee angle, etc...

There are two main types of back squats, high bar and low bar. High bar squats, or olympic squats are performed by placing the bar high on the back on the trapezius. To get a good view of where to place the bar, which is important, retract the shoulder blades back very far without a shirt to see the shelf that the traps create.

What I do to retract the shoulders is place my hands on the bar first and press myself through and infront of the bar and then slowly back up until the bar is right above my traps. I keep my elbows back and up, not down perpendicular to the ground which I see so many people doing. This "locks" the bar in place a bit and allows the wrists to remain straight and not under stress.

The more flexible you are the more narrow you can stand. Generally, you want to stand with feet right at shouder width apart 12-15". The farther out you spread your legs the farther out you will foot angle will change. A good way to find correct foot angle is to sit in a chair with feet together pointing straight out. Start moving your thighs apart and notice the angle that your feet naturally take. When they are shoulder width apart, this will be the angle that will probably be right.

 When you descend you want to keep your head straight or just down a bit. Break first at the hips and sit straight down. Do not let your knees travel far, a good rule is to keep the knees right above the toes but not much further. Your knees should also be angled out so that they trace directly over the feet and do not cave in or push out too wide. Caving in seems to be a common problem, especially for noobs who have trouble with flexibility. You want to keep your back as straight as possible. Depending on your individual anthropomorphology, the angle of your back will be different but you should be fairly close to being upright.

Another important point is to keep the weight on your heels at all times. Descend in a controlled fashion, while holding your breath. This is important as the air in your abdomen will keep you stable throughout the movement. Do not breath in or out during the rep, only after its completed. This is called the valsalva movement.

Squat down past parallel until your thighs and calves connect. If you are not flexible enough to do this I would suggest a lot of time sitting deep in the squat position. The bottom of the squat is important to use the stretch reflex mechanism that occurs as your muscles are stretching out at the bottom and bounce out of the hole. It is not violent like a slinky but controlled and natural.

Push through the heels hard at the bottom and come through hard agan with your hips at the top.

Here's a really good video of an olympic squatter. His knees cave in because of the weight but otherwise his form is excellent and you can clearly see his massive shelf of traps that holds the bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y8yKSJbpFI&feature=related

Low bar squats can be seen described in the stsarting strength wiki I linked early. You can lift more weight with low bar and there is a lot of debate which one is better but high bar seems more natural with less tress on the sholders and what olympic lifters do so thats what I do. I would do lots of squats with just the bar every day for a while to get the form down just right.

[Raw Kyle]

Glad to read you're doing so well. I agree with others in that you should focus on form at a lower weight, rather then doing the weight you can do with improper form and trying to work on form from there.

[raw meat man]

The body runs on fat for fuel. The liver converts fat into glucose. So the more fat you eat, the more energy you will have to burn. Aim for eating a lot of fat as this helps slap on heaps of healthy body fat.

Ive put on 36lbs in the last few months and havent picked up a single weight or done a single push up! Now thats some serious results I have to say! 

Bottom line, if you want to bulk, hit the RAF really hard and forget lifting weights and carbs as it just puts the body in an catabolic state.

Guys there is better things to do than live in the gym and look in the mirrors! 

[MaximilianKohler]

Hey guittarman could you post an update on how everything went since the end of January? From this thread it seems like you needed a month to get used to it then it was better for you, yet in more recent threads I've seen you be against RZC...

I'm quite interested in the RZC vs Raw meat/fat with additional fruit or cooked sweet potato/yam. Personally I lifted weights for 4 years taking protein supplements and such and gained strength but never mass. I've always been around 50lbs underweight(currently 6'8" 170lbs). I'd like to gain lean mass and be as athletic as possible.

[Guittarman03]

Hey guys, it's been awhile since I've trolled around or given a status update.  I'm doing 70% RPD, with the occasional burger and some light drinking on the weekends.  I guess I just find it too socially impractical to never eat regular food, and consider that 70% RPD is still going to afford me lots of benefits.   

Anyhow, after the end of Feb I gave up on the VLC ketogenic plan in favor of a high carb, high protein, low fat approach.  I tried the standard BB  meal plan -  eat 6 meals a day every 2-3 hours, but that didn't seem to work for me.  In fact, I ended up putting on some extra fat and almost nothing in the form of strength.

I eventually quit the low rep powerlifting type workouts in favor of a varied workout where one set I may do 15-20, and the next I may do only 5 reps.  The most important factor is to focus on contracting the muscle you're trying to work, not just moving the weight.  When I started doing that (a tip given by a personal trainer), I started to put on size and strength again (on the high carb high protein diet).

I have a new hypothesis that was generated by an accidental discovery.  I was tired of having a 33” waist (the result of trying to bulk up) so I set out to shed some fat.  I cut out most of the carbs in favor of high protein, moderate fat, and low carb (but not VLC).  Also, I quit eating so often, eating now 3-4 times a day, and not too much at any 1 serving.  I now eat maybe 60g carbs per day, most of it coming from fruit, coconut water, and a little from marinade I use for flavor.  I’ll consume a good bit of carbs just before a workout, but try to keep it to only protein directly after.  I’ve read that insulin tends to reduce testosterone and growth hormone, even though it does blunt the rise of catabolic hormones.  Also, I’ve cut my calories by about 1/3 overall. 

I assumed that surely I would lose some muscle, but lo and behold over the past few weeks I’ve gotten stronger and bigger (not a lot, but still measurable) while I’ve dropped ½” of the waist.  Kind of odd, but I’m wondering if all those calories and eating was actually hurting me.  Maybe I was spending so much time on digestion, that I never gave my body a chance to grow and repair.  Oh yeah the savings on the pocketbook have been nice too.

Not only that, when I decide to splurge once or twice a week, it seems to have almost no effect on my waistline, instead my body takes the opportunity to grow instead of pack on any extra fat.  On the high calorie, eat every 2-3 hr plan I could never splurge without it hitting my waist the next day.
Just a hypothesis tho, maybe my results as of late have just been from a re-focus on contracting the muscles properly instead of just trying to move more weight. 

[wodgina]

If you are doing 245 with bad/improper form you really need to back off and get the form down right. This is extremely important for further progress.

The type of squat you are doing is going to dictate the amount of depth, back angle, knee extension, knee angle, etc...

There are two main types of back squats, high bar and low bar. High bar squats, or olympic squats are performed by placing the bar high on the back on the trapezius. To get a good view of where to place the bar, which is important, retract the shoulder blades back very far without a shirt to see the shelf that the traps create.

What I do to retract the shoulders is place my hands on the bar first and press myself through and infront of the bar and then slowly back up until the bar is right above my traps. I keep my elbows back and up, not down perpendicular to the ground which I see so many people doing. This "locks" the bar in place a bit and allows the wrists to remain straight and not under stress.

The more flexible you are the more narrow you can stand. Generally, you want to stand with feet right at shouder width apart 12-15". The farther out you spread your legs the farther out you will foot angle will change. A good way to find correct foot angle is to sit in a chair with feet together pointing straight out. Start moving your thighs apart and notice the angle that your feet naturally take. When they are shoulder width apart, this will be the angle that will probably be right.

 When you descend you want to keep your head straight or just down a bit. Break first at the hips and sit straight down. Do not let your knees travel far, a good rule is to keep the knees right above the toes but not much further. Your knees should also be angled out so that they trace directly over the feet and do not cave in or push out too wide. Caving in seems to be a common problem, especially for noobs who have trouble with flexibility. You want to keep your back as straight as possible. Depending on your individual anthropomorphology, the angle of your back will be different but you should be fairly close to being upright.

Another important point is to keep the weight on your heels at all times. Descend in a controlled fashion, while holding your breath. This is important as the air in your abdomen will keep you stable throughout the movement. Do not breath in or out during the rep, only after its completed. This is called the valsalva movement.

Squat down past parallel until your thighs and calves connect. If you are not flexible enough to do this I would suggest a lot of time sitting deep in the squat position. The bottom of the squat is important to use the stretch reflex mechanism that occurs as your muscles are stretching out at the bottom and bounce out of the hole. It is not violent like a slinky but controlled and natural.

Push through the heels hard at the bottom and come through hard agan with your hips at the top.

Here's a really good video of an olympic squatter. His knees cave in because of the weight but otherwise his form is excellent and you can clearly see his massive shelf of traps that holds the bar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y8yKSJbpFI&feature=related

Low bar squats can be seen described in the stsarting strength wiki I linked early. You can lift more weight with low bar and there is a lot of debate which one is better but high bar seems more natural with less tress on the sholders and what olympic lifters do so thats what I do. I would do lots of squats with just the bar every day for a while to get the form down just right.

Going deep like that feels really good. I didn't realise you could have that bar so high.

[Josh]

I cut out most of the carbs in favor of high protein, moderate fat, and low carb (but not VLC). 

Any idea what the amount +or ratio of protein to fat is that you eat?

[B.Money]

MMmm I love me some deeeep high bar squats. Really gotta check your ego on these though. My rock bottom high bar squat is probably a minimum of 100lbs off of my wider stance, low bar, just below parallel squat.

Something that should be mentioned with that video is the heeled shoes that help the knees go forwards more. You CAN squat the same way barefoot but it takes awhile to gain the flexibility to be able to keep your heels down in the hole. It's possible though that heeled shoes will always make the bottom position more comfortable and stable though.

[KD]

Going deep like that feels really good. I didn't realise you could have that bar so high.

what do you mean high? like closer to the neck?

[wodgina]

Yep, I have the bar lower, on the back of my arms/shoulders

[B.Money]

Yep, I have the bar lower, on the back of my arms/shoulders

You can squat like that too, its a stronger position but your squats will not be as deep. The higher up the bar is the less torso lean, the lower you can get your butt between your legs.

[wodgina]

I can't imagine going lower! will try

[MaximilianKohler]

I thought bending your knees lower then a 90 degree angle was bad for them... ?

[PaleoPhil]

I thought bending your knees lower then a 90 degree angle was bad for them... ?

If that were the case for everyone, how would our ancestors have defecated for the millions of years before raised outhouses and throne toilets were invented? If you observe hunter gatherers in the wild, one of their most common ways of sitting is a full squat, probably the most common. It is possible, however, to overdo it if the body is unaccustomed to squatting, as with many Westerners.

[KD]

If that were the case for everyone, how would our ancestors have defecated for the millions of years before raised outhouses and throne toilets were invented? If you observe hunter gatherers in the wild, one of their most common ways of sitting is a full squat, probably the most common. It is possible, however, to overdo it if the body is unaccustomed to squatting, as with many Westerners.

we were talking about really heavy loaded back-squats.

Its likely that any movement one can do naturally, you can theoretically load weight without harm, but there is possibly some concern to be had, particularly with forcing a lower stance with a higher weight even if one can physically do both separately. At my gym they emphasize going into the deepest squat, prior to loading higher weights, but these would go well under 90 for sure.

[PaleoPhil]

we were talking about really heavy loaded back-squats.

Yes, I know. I meant my comment to be taken to be inclusive rather than exclusive. By "overdo it" I meant potentially using more weight than one can handle safely as well as going deeper than the body is accustomed to.

Its likely that any movement one can do naturally, you can theoretically load weight without harm, but there is possibly some concern to be had, particularly with forcing a lower stance with a higher weight even if one can physically do both separately. At my gym they emphasize going into the deepest squat, prior to loading higher weights, but these would go well under 90 for sure.

I agree and this is basically what I meant. IIRC, Mark Rippetoe even claims that going deep actually helps, rather than makes things worse. If your gym is a Crossfit gym then they may agree, as they seem to be somewhat influenced by Rippetoe, though I'm not sure. Your gym's advice fits well with our evolutionary heritage, so at the least it sounds reasonable, but I'm no expert on weighted squats or body building.

Years ago I was told by some that deep knee bends and weighted deep squats were unhealthy, but later I heard and read some body builders saying it was one of the best bodybuilding exercises and I realized that it is a natural human movement. However, structural problems like weak connective tissues and muscle atrophy can make heavy-weighted deep squats difficult. I can't do heavily weighted squats myself because my left knee has a weak ligament and the kneecap subluxates (pops out of its socket easily), though that has improved somewhat on my RPD.

It is possible to overload the leg bones even if one doesn't go deep. I was in a gym when a guy snapped a leg bone while doing moderate squats that were not deep while lifting heavy weights. There's also a Youtube video of this happening to a guy under a massive weight load. The weight was just too much for these guys' bones and maybe too much for them to maintain proper technique--though I'm no expert on that. If one is concerned about safety I would think that going somewhat easy on the weight and focusing on proper technique would indeed be a safe way to start out, as your gym apparently advised.

[Charlie4444]

I'm curious, is there anyone on here who knows from experience the effects of taking HGH, or some kind of anabolic steroid, and compared it to RPD?  Despite it being synthetic, you'd still probably see better results from steroids than just RPD. 

[HIT_it_RAW]

I'm curious, is there anyone on here who knows from experience the effects of taking HGH, or some kind of anabolic steroid, and compared it to RPD?  Despite it being synthetic, you'd still probably see better results from steroids than just RPD. 

Yeah sure real great results; shrinking testikels, ruined kidness/liver, extreme agression, spontanious growth of tissue where it doesn't belong.

I have no personal experience with any of them and would avoid them like the plague. I think in general the results are over estimated and the side effects severely underestimated. Tons of people are taking steriods, some of them are genetic freaks that would have been huge, if they exercised heavy, anyway. There are however plenty of great physiques from the past when far fewer people exercised with weights and steroid and other such crap had yet to be invented. Bob Hoffman and Bill Pearl being only two of them. And then there are much older examples to be admired carved from stone by ancient sculptors. Thousands of years ago such man existed because otherwise those sculptors would not have known how to carve such statue, it not being possible to predict how a very large men would look like without having ever seen one. Muscular shapes change when they get bigger.

If you are considering taking any such synthetic aids consider the above. Train hard, very hard and you will get as big as your genetics allow for without destroying your body/mind in the process.

[HIT_it_RAW]

If one is concerned about safety I would think that going somewhat easy on the weight and focusing on proper technique would indeed be a safe way to start out, as your gym apparently advised.

And anyone with at least some common sense could have figured out

[Charlie4444]

Yeah sure real great results; shrinking testikels, ruined kidness/liver, extreme agression, spontanious growth of tissue where it doesn't belong.

I have no personal experience with any of them and would avoid them like the plague. I think in general the results are over estimated and the side effects severely underestimated.

^So you don't know from experience!  I used to think eating raw meat would give me parasites and harmful bacteria that would destroy me based on respected literature!  If you research it, there's no info that supports steroids, and everything that goes against it.  People know that it works, therefore, it's kept on the down low.  Very similar to raw paleo. 
^ I have been friends with and seen many people who take steroids and they have impressive looking bodies, get girls, are smart, and it seems from the fact that they promote human growth.  I notice positive growth in girls once they take birth control (steroid), when medically prescribed steroids from doctors I see people grow in intelligence and stature, and looking at bodies of professional, steroid taking athletes compared to amatuer natural ones, I'm just being honest, the professional ones look better to everyone!  Steroids come in so many forms, usually prescribed by doctors, they don't even realize much of their success comes from the human growth stimulated by these synthetics.   

[sabertooth]

I wonder if perhaps eating a ton of testicles would have a more natural steroid effect.

Or even eating lots of brains and other glands.

Along with drinking copious amounts of fresh blood.

I am not sure if it would cause one to gain bulk mass(because I am on a low carb diet I haven't gained much mass. I have maintained around 170) But as far as increasing strength, I have noticed great overall improvements in muscle tone and endurance from eating whole animal raw paleo, along with extra brains and testicles. I have been eating a brain a day for the past three weeks.

Anyone else believe that blood, brains, and balls could have natural and safe androgenic properties?

[Adora]

I ate testicle once. It was powerful but wrong for me. I felt that it would be so good for a man, but you are the first man I found to report eating raw testicle. The few experiences with blood have felt so right and good to my body. I thought blood was supposed to induce vomiting. I expected this, but it is like velvet smooth. Perfect. Easy to digest. Comforting to my digestion. I loved the stuff and I'm determined to get more. I also have enjoyed lots of fish row. It feels like a deeply healing food for my feminine body. It seems like you are on the right tract to me even though I come from the Venus side of your streangth and healing ideas.

[Justin]

I wonder if perhaps eating a ton of testicles would have a more natural steroid effect.

Or even eating lots of brains and other glands.

Along with drinking copious amounts of fresh blood.

I am not sure if it would cause one to gain bulk mass(because I am on a low carb diet I haven't gained much mass. I have maintained around 170) But as far as increasing strength, I have noticed great overall improvements in muscle tone and endurance from eating whole animal raw paleo, along with extra brains and testicles. I have been eating a brain a day for the past three weeks.

Anyone else believe that blood, brains, and balls could have natural and safe androgenic properties?

The notion is that like cures like or stimulates like. The bodybuilders back in the 1970's were taking copious amount of liver pills (not ideal by any means), but the testimonies from Jack Lalanne, Don Howorth, Frank Zane, etc, all felt incredible endurance, faster recovery, and skin complexion improved substantially. Vince Gironda who trained many of the famous bodybuilders from 60's to late 80's was a huge proponent of orchic (bull balls) as was Bob Gajda who were both natural. Jack Lalanne and others during the Muscle Beach years would go to the stockyards and drink raw cows blood, until Jack thought he sipped down what appeared to be a clot and then stopped. He admitted that the cows blood was also an excellent energizer.

The only aforementioned gland I've eaten fairly consistently would be liver and I definitely feel better and has given me substantial endurance and recovery from heavy training in the gym. I have yet to try raw rocky mountain oysters, but I would like to if I can procure a source.

[aLptHW4k4y]

Anyone else believe that blood, brains, and balls could have natural and safe androgenic properties?

Testosterone can't be stored anywhere in the body.
Blood would likely have the most significant androgenic properties, from any free testosterone in it.

But I'm not sure extra testosterone is very good, no matter if it's natural or synthetic.
It depends a lot on your genes whether it will get used for muscles. A lot of it might just be converted to estrogen (which also depends on how fat you are I think which again is mostly due to your genes..).

[aLptHW4k4y]

The only aforementioned gland I've eaten fairly consistently would be liver and I definitely feel better and has given me substantial endurance and recovery from heavy training in the gym. I have yet to try raw rocky mountain oysters, but I would like to if I can procure a source.

I have similar experience with liver. There's some unknown factor in raw liver, which increases endurance; there have been experiments with mice left swimming to death, and those that ate liver beforehand went on swimming for more than two hours vs. those on normal diet or normal diet + vitamin pills that survived only around 10 minutes.