Insulin, Growth Hormone, bulking

[miles]

Those people talking about weights being unnatural movement; I have found them extremely useful for quickly rehabilitating injuries, whereas others would take months off and it still wouldn't heal properly until they returned to training and it started to strengthen.

[Guittarman03]

So, you think civilization is good?

Not quite sure how to answer.  If you were to say 'so, you think eating raw meat is good?' I could answer easily with a yes, but that's a fairly straight foward and limited question.  The other is fairly open and can lead to other philisophical questions merely to answer it.

But I'd say overall that advanced civilization is the only chance humanity has for survival on a large time line.  We are only beginning to understand just what it means to be advanced.  Unfortunately there is the inherent risk that we may destroy ourselves and our planet before we become truly advanced. 

Civilization is an evolutionary adapatation.  It is hard to label any one particular adaptation as good or bad, it just is.  The consequences may or may not manifest themselves as survival enablers/disablers, and generally it can only be labelled as one or the other after the fact.

[William]

Apology: it was a trick question, on reflection.
The only civilization we know is a grain-based one, which is destructive. There may have been others.

Better to say that technology is good, and ours is not the first high tech culture, though it looks like it might be the last.

[Guittarman03]

Okay so I said I'd post on what I've been up to the last few months. 

So back when I started doing the cyclical ketogenic diet, I would notice an inflated effect to my muscles and liked it.  And I had to travel quite a bit between June and October (sometimes had to eat at a chow hall).  So I pretty much caved and started eating more and more carbs, grains included.  I still made sure to eat raw meat and raw fat, but I liked the effects of insulin on growth, and of course the inflated look.  I didn't consider the grains to be too bad.  My reasoning was that excess carbs (grains) aren't necessarily unhealthy (aka grain=bad), but it is the insulin resistance that develops as a result that is unhealthy, and I was doing plenty of weight lifting which increases insulin sensitivity.  I guess there's still things like gluten intolerance, and yes, I noticed some negative side effects when I really started to add more grains.  But eventually my body adapted, and I was still getting plenty of raw meat. 

My growth though had somewhat stagnated despite changing up my workout plan and trying a few different things.  Kind of frustrating, b/c now the extra carbs didn't seem to be helping me bulk or get any stronger.  So I went back to the internet, the trusty source for all kinds of knowledge (after you filter through tons of crap), and found this guy Jason Ferruggia.  Basically he says that if you want to get bigger and stronger, you have to lift very heavy, with basic movements, and spend no more than 45 mins per session (b/c of how your horomones respond during lifting).

So at the beginning of December I started doing his program - 3 days a week lifting, 5-8 reps to failure, only only 2 sets per exercise, doing large basic movements (squats, deads, weighted pullups and pushups, plus a few others).  Once you can do 8 reps, it's time to increase the weight.  This was working great, and I mean great.  My back and shoulders quickly filled out, which I had negleted somewhat in the past months.  Perhaps more importantly, I was stronger every time I set foot in the gym, whether in weight or reps.  I did this for about 2-3 weeks, and then took a break between Christmas and the new year.  It was the quickest change I had seen in strength or body composition, although it was only for a couple weeks. 

So then I got to thinking that perhaps my earlier experiment with VLC and weights was hampered not b/c of the diet, but b/c I wasn't doing the right kind of program in the gym.  I was making slow gains with VLC, but definitely not losing anything.  Not only that, the carb metabolism made me put on fat with the mucle, in addition to the added digestive problems b/c of mixing all the carbs and meat.  So I wanted to find out if I can repeat these results on VLC. 

So 1 Jan I started getting back to ketosis, which sucked, but was over in a few days.  Then I went back to the gym on the 5th.  I was definitely weaker in the gym for the first 7 days, but after the 1st week I had recovered an equal amount of strength from when I left off in carb metabolism.  I just finished out my second week, and I have improved a little from when I left off carb metabolism, although the improvements still haven't matched the rapid pace from earlier.  I think part of that is b/c heavy squats and deadlifts were new to me, so you have the neurological effects where your body is first learning to recruit more fibers before growing the existing ones, and I may have been reaching the end of that "newbie" phase just as I was starting ketosis.

I also think a good portion is that I've been out of ketosis for a solid 7 months.  I have read that gene expression is altered when in ketosis, and I've read it can take 22 weeks for a full adaptation (enzyme and bacterial changes in the gut, enzyme expression in the mitochondria, etc).  Even though it may take that long, I've read some studies  ( http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/1950-all-about-fats-print.html ) that claim results in the gym should be showing in a few weeks.  [I know Lex has said up to a couple years, but I think age and recovery from prior conditions may increase that significantly].

So what this means for me is that I'm going to keep this up for at least a month to give my body some adapation time.  As long as I'm making steady gains through February, even if they aren't as dramatic as when I first started, then I'll keep this up for the next 4-6 months or so.  I feel optimistic that I'll be able to replicate the results, perhaps do even better on VLC.  I can tell I'm not fully adapted yet as the sight/smell of pasta, rice, pizza, etc just gets my mouth watering.  I remember not really having these problems when doing VLC for a few months (after having transitioned there from low carb 30-60 grams a day for a good 4-6 months). 

In a lot of ways it's important to me that this works out like I hope it will.  First, my digestion is so much better this way.  And I never really get those strong hunger pangs like I do when eating carbs.  After 3-5 days, I could feel that my eyesight and mind were getting much sharper.  It was kind of crazy how different it was.  And the cold adaptation was amazing.  I set my thermostat a good 5 degrees lower (farenheit), and instead of wearing a sweatshirt, I'll often just go shirtless now and feel just fine.  I mean, every other metric that I can think of shows just how much better ketosis is than carb metabolism, and I really consider it optimum for the body.  I also consider heavy lifting one of the best things you can do as exercise for the body.  If done properly, it improves joint strength, increases insulin sensitivity, and makes every day lifting and movement easier and safer - that is so long as you maintain flexibility and don't roid it up like those guys on the magazines. 

So really, if ketosis and lifting don't go together, I'll guess I'll be forced to re-evaluated my viewpoint on at least one of these items.  I wish there was more study done on this subject.  Almost all of the studies done with ketosis are terminated after a week or two, and invariably are done on cooked diets.  Seems like I've read quite a bit of conflicting accounts about ketosis and lifting.  Guess I'll just have to keep at it and see.

[van]

thanks for the report,  I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear how it goes.  I can remember a couple of months ago, after already focusing on squats, I included dead lifts, and wow, for a couple of weeks it felt as though I was always pumped.  Then that phase left.  Not sure what that means except that it seems to maintain a strong growth hormone surge we have to mix it up and keep pushing heavier weights?

[Paleo Donk]

Nice stroy gm. If you get the chance check out my journal, my lifting regimine is very similar to yours. I started lifting seriously again early November and went raw carnivore about 4 weeks ago and luckily did not get affected strength wise at the gym and in fact improved slightly though I dropped carbs and was eating less. I had gained lots of strength a year ago and had gone zero carb before so this probably had a lot to do with it.

All together I put in about 5 months of very-low/zero carb cooked diet and had massive strength improvements and then another 4 months of low carb and high alcohol diet with some more strength gains but not nearly as much. I only started to gain weight when I added in the alcohol and occasional carbs. I stayed pretty lean at the same weight the 5 months I stayed strict.

I agree with you that it should take much less time than it did lex to fully adapt as surely his age and diet history had something to do about it. I don't actually think the body remains in ketosis. When I went zc last year, my urinary ketones eventually dropped to zero. I just measured my ketones today and they are in the low to moderate range.

And yea there hasn't been a single study done on weightlifting on very low carb. I searched pubmed endlessly a year ago and could only find the famous zero carb Phinney study which only lasted 6-7 weeks which is almost worthless. They did comment on how their bikers sprinting capabilities remained low till the end. They never actually measure it just mentioned it without much discussion. This scared me but I stuck with my diet and routine and kept on putting on strength. I'm really interested in seeing if my new raw carnivore will make a difference and its far too early to tell right now.

[Guittarman03]

As of today I've decided to go off the 100% ketogenic diet and go for what's called a targeted ketogenic diet (TKD).  Basically you consume about 30g carbs before or after the gym.  It's supposed to help maintain glycogen stores.  I'm consuming after the gym.   

I'm having a little trouble understanding what's been going on with my body the past week.  I use keto strips to test ketones in the urine.  When I first got back to ketosis, my urine ketone levels went up just as I was starting to feel crappy from low blood sugar, but they dropped to almost nill the next morning and for the next 2 weeks, whether morning, noon, night, or after a meal.  Basically telling me that my body went from burning carbs+fat but not ketones (that's why they were excreted in the urine), to burning mostly just fat+ketones (no longer excreted in urine b/c they're burned up).  But lately I've had an upsurge in urine ketones.  I thought maybe I wasn't getting enough fat so last night I ate no carbs, and really upped the fat, but I still had a moderate amount.  Same thing this morning after almost 12 hrs no food and also right before the gym today. 

Does that maybe mean my body is just burning a lot of fat and not using all the ketones?  Why would that be the case?  Seems inefficient.  All I can really think is that my body is converting protein to carbs, which are for glycogen and are also getting used some for energy in the process.  I've also noticed my cold tolerance has dropped slightly, especially when my urine readings are high. 

Not only that, but I've had 3 weeks now to adapt, and my weights are just barely increasing.  I remember going to the gym, lifting those first few plates and thinking, "man this feels light today."  I don't get that feeling since in ketosis.  In fact, I haven't increased my deadlift except by 1 rep on 1 set since I've started VLC.  And on Tuesday, I couldn't complete the 2nd rep of my incline dumbell press on 85 lbs (each arm).  I was doing 2 sets of 8 for 80lbs the last time I lifted that exercise, and I had plenty of time to rest since my last upper body workout (5 days, with 2 in a row being completely off).

Now if my results in the gym had slowed but my urine ketones had remained low, I would just chalk this up to my body taking time to adjust, and give it more time.  But the fact that my body is excreting ketones makes me think that I'm converting a lot of protein to carbs for the purpose of glycogen replenishment, and that my body is inadvertently using some for energy as well.  That would explain the ketone readings, and also my stalling results in the gym. 

So why am I going to use a metabolically inefficient process to convert expensive protein to carbs when the result will be the same if I just eat carbs?  I'm actually hoping the post workout carbs will help me maintain ketosis better, as I can replace glycogen pretty quickly making it unnecessary for my body to convert protein, and thus it will switch back to using ketones soon after the shake.  I'll have to experiment with the right amt, I'm going with 25-35 right now.     

[Hannibal]

So why am I going to use a metabolically inefficient process to convert expensive protein to carbs when the result will be the same if I just eat carbs?  

Consuming more protein, so that it will be converted to glucose is not only inefficient, but also unhealthy.
You can use ketones very good while consuming some amount of carbs - the requirement is about 50-100 g. When your excercises are long-lasting than more carbs are needed.
That's all in biochemistry.

[Paleo Donk]

I have a theory that the body will adapt to virtually any level of carbs/fat if you stay at the level long enough and we should never really stay in ketosis. I don't see why we would be wasting much energy one way or the other. There are obvoiusly a lot of other factors.

I suppose it is plausible that excess  protein is being  converted to glucose to fuel your body which is leading to ketone excretion. It still doesn't explain how you went from a nil reading on the ketostix to moderate after a couple weeks.

Maybe there was some other mechanism going on that held your urinary ketones down to nil. Perhaps you were giving your body just enough carbs at first to stay out of ketosis. You only had one day of high ketones before it dropped to zero for two weeks? The body might not enter ketosis for a couple weeks if you are consuming 30g of carbs a day. Maybe that one reading was a fluke? And just now your body is entering true ketosis as you see more consistent positive ketone readings.

Maybe Im not understanding, what was your carb intake before starting TKD and were you measuring urinary ketones then?

Perhaps this is why I adjusted so much better than you. I went straight to raw carnivore and adapted very quickly in a carbless environment, though I'm still reading moderate on the ketone strips.

How often do you lift? I found that I gained strength faster lifting once every 3 or 4 days. I only deadlift every 7-10 days. There was a period where I was eating low carb and lifting around 4 times a week and completely stalled on my lifts.

Also to add, it may not matter that much but I wouldn't eat carbs right after lifting. Why does it matter when your glycogen stores get refilled? Eat the carbs when you are hungry.

[Guittarman03]

I was getting about 15g carbs but no more than 30g any day, eating 2 meals a day, lighter for lunch (about 1 lb chuck steak) and heavy for dinner, about 1.5 lb.  I take at least 3 measurements a day: morning, after work (before workout), and before bed.  I've been showing high for a little less than a week now.  It was just last night that I had some post workout carbs.  I waited a little over an hour and then ate some fatty steak, and then 30 mins later went to bed.  My readings were almost zero, but then this morning my readings were pretty high again.  

I remember when I was VLC last year, my readings were always very low.  I'm a little perplexed as to why ketones started showing up 2 weeks after I started VLC, and especially the one reading where they were high 12 hrs the morning after a high fat no carb meal.    

I lift 3 days a week with upper / lower body splits.  So it looks like this:

Week1           Week2    
Tue:  UB        Tue: LB    
Thur: LB        Thur: UB  
Sat:  Ub         Sat: LB    

I only deadlift every other LB session, so really just once every 8-10 days, and I keep my workouts short - 45mins.  The thing is, I'm comparing my strength gains between high carb and VLC (almost entirely ignoring size as an important criteria).  I was more than capable to maintain this regimine while eating plenty of carbs.

Also, I get hungry in the morning, but definitely not hungry for meat or fat.  I'm maintaining body weight, actually put just a little bit of weight on.  In fact, I've surprisingly added to my waistline which was rather unexpected.  Again, I think evidence that my body is converting a significant amount of protein to carbs.  

Really the question that I have is this:  If I keep at VLC (without doing TKD), will my body eventually adjust to use fat to create ATP for workouts, or will it keep converting a significant amount of protein to glucose instead?  The answer is obviously somewhere in the middle, but where?  Just as weight lifting increses insulin sensitivity (increasing the metabolic pathways for processing glucose for recovery), I would expect it to do the same with using fat for energy; so that you would adapt more quickly to fat metabolism than if you did nothing.  

Again, I have shown a little gain on most exercises, but it's been 3 weeks with nothing really to brag about.  I'm fairly confident that had I maintained carb metabolism, I would have put on quite a bit more.  I'll probably render my final verdict (for me) next thursday when I lift the same UB routine I did on tuesday this week.  I stepped the weights up on tuesday which naturally decreased the reps.  So if this is really working out I should be able to pump out rep or two extra on each set, which is about the gains I was making in carb metabolism.  
  

[klowcarb]

I have made my strongest gains in lifting on ZC. You will adapt, but carb cycling just taxes your body, as it cannot adapt to fat burning.

[Guittarman03]

How long did it take you to adapt to where you were making significant gains, or at least equal gains to eating carbs?

[Hannibal]

carb cycling just taxes your body, as it cannot adapt to fat burning.

But one can be on low-carb and burn fat very efficiently.

[Paleo Donk]

You were getting 15 and now are getting 30g of carbs a day. I misunderstood, I thought when you said ketogenic you were implying the cyclical ketogenic diet where you load up on carbs once a week.

It was just last night that I had some post workout carbs.  I waited a little over an hour and then ate some fatty steak, and then 30 mins later went to bed.  My readings were almost zero, but then this morning my readings were pretty high again.  

It makes sense that urine ketones in the morning would be the highest especially after eating carbs the night before.

I remember when I was VLC last year, my readings were always very low.  I'm a little perplexed as to why ketones started showing up 2 weeks after I started VLC, and especially the one reading where they were high 12 hrs the morning after a high fat no carb meal.

But you were on a much higher carb diet prior to going ketogenic and then TKD. I thought TKD recommened a lot more carb intake by the way. It still makes sense to me that ketones would show up 2 weeks after starting your ketogenic diet. Supplying the body with any carb intake is going to slow down the process of adaptation.

Really the question that I have is this:  If I keep at VLC (without doing TKD), will my body eventually adjust to use fat to create ATP for workouts, or will it keep converting a significant amount of protein to glucose instead?  The answer is obviously somewhere in the middle, but where?

The energy needed for the workouts you do isn't all tha much. I know free ATP and creatine phoshate generate energy for intense working out for the first 7-10s and then its glycogen that slowly starts to become the dominant energy, but this is in a non-adapted state. I complete most of my sets in 15-20s and rest quite a while between heavy sets. Normally around 4-5 minutes but waited 15 the other day.

Now, whether you can have sustained energy plaing basketball or MMA is another question that I haven't tested. I had very little/no stamina up until this last week and was able to run 3/4 of a  mile fast and pain free. This was after 4 weeks of raw carnivore.

As for your schedule you might want to just drop it down to twice a week, especially if you are still spilling ketones. I know that probably sounds absurd that I'm suggesting twice a week as almost no one does this but I think it will be beneficial. It probably can't hurt right now since you haven't been gaining strength. I feel your pain about not improving. I get very upset even after one day of not imroving.

So, I wouldn't give up on this diet so fast. One month isn't enough time and it could very well be your workout schedule that needs fixing. My gains stalled the more often I tried to lift.

One more thing on your routine -  I have to question how much you do for lower or upper body in 45 minutes. That is a lot of time to be focusing in on one area of the body.  You might be overworking each part of your body.

[Guittarman03]

I guess I wasn't clear about what I was doing.  Since 1 Jan of this year, I've been doing a straight up 100% ketogenic diet, getting usually only 15g carbs per day, ocassionally up to 30g but never more than that.  I have not been carb cycling, like my previous experiment with cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD).  Neither have I been doing a targeted ketogenic diet, consuming about 30g carbs near the workout.  I did that 1 time out of frustration this past thursday, but decided not to do it anymore until at least this next thursday to give this a little bit more of a chance.

Reducing my workout schedule is really not an option for me, as I did just fine when on carb metabolism, getting consistent gains in the gym.  I still have yet to match those gains while in ketosis. 

That's the whole point of what I'm doing.  I finally learned how to lift correctly for consitent gains in strength and size, and it worked very well while in carb metabolism.  I'm trying to see if ketosis works just as well.  If it does, I should eventually adapt, and be able to post the same kind of gains as earlier on the exact same program. 

If I have to back off and go fewer days a week, lift fewer sets or reps, or take longer breaks in between sets to accomplish the same amount of work; then I know that carb metabolism is superior to ketosis for putting on muscle (for me). 

I know that the transition is going to cause a momentary hiatus in my gains as my body adapts, but I was hoping that once I recovered my previous strength (which I have), that the rate of my gains would begin to increase, as my body increasingly adapts to burning fat. 

It took about 10 days to recover my original strength, and then I have made some small gains here and there; but some exercises are still only back to even.  Other exercises that I have made gains are showing signs of stalling. 

I don't necessarily expect (though I had hoped) that after 1 month of straight up ketosis, no carb cycling, I would be posting as good as, or better results than before.  But even if I didn't, it is important to be seeing improvements in ability to gain.  So maybe I take 10 days to recover my original strength, have problems putting on anything extra for a week or 2, but then slowly start to make better and better gains as the next couple of weeks progress (eventually I would level out of course, and I know we all hit plateaus, but I really shouldn't be getting to that for at least 8-12 weeks). 

The problem is that I recovered my strength, started putting on just little reps and weight, and then stalled at the time I would think I should have seen my results accelerating.  This was simultaneous with the confusing results with urinary ketones. 

I was frustrated when I said I was switching to TKD, but thought better of it later and haven't had any significant carbs since.  I'm going to do an UB routine I haven't done since, Thur last week, so hopefully I'll see some improvements.  If not, I'm going to stick with this until either Thursday or Saturday next week and see where I'm at. 

It's just that, if I'm going to adapt, I should be seeing some positive signs after 4 weeks, especially with a primer like lifting.  I'll keep you guys posted, hopefully with good news. 

[klowcarb]

Hope it works out for you Guittarman. I love lifting on Zero (yes zero) Carbs.  I would not want to add any back in in any form, but that's just me.

It did not take me long to adapt at all, surprisingly. In fact, I had to make sure, on ZC, that I was eating ENOUGH calories of fat and protein. On raw ZC, I have so much energy, and I'm continually increasing how much raw meat I'm eating. I'm lifting MORE now than I was before going ZC. Carbs can give energy, sure,as well as diseases and poor body composition and hunger, but fat is the body's preferred energy source, far superior, and makes for a great body composition, with pure energy and no hunger. I'll take the latter

[Paleo Donk]

If you do drop to 2 workouts a week (or even 1!) you can always move back up to 3 once you have fully adapted. No one is saying you have to continue twice per week indefinitely. You are clearly not adapted yet and still want to continue lifting at the same frequency as you did with your higher carb diet? There is little chance of your routine working as before as you have shown.

For the first three weeks or so I jumped on the treadmill and could barely complete a slow quarter of a mile before I felt a dull pain in my chest. I stopped immediately and went on with my lifting which went fine. The month before I was on a very high carb cooked diet and ran hard a couple times a week generally 2-3 miles. It wasn't until this past week where I could run hard for more than a quarter mile.

You didn't mention your leg routine. I generally just do 1 or 2 exercises a day, squat (when my knee is healthy) and some version of the oly lifts. 45 minutes is probably too much for you right now. I'd also recommend mixing UB and LB like me , but keep the workouts short. I also suggest looking into getting Starting Strength which is where I am getting my suggestions from. Its a phenomenal book.

I, of course, would like to see you cut down your routine and don't think you will have an improvement by next week. I can say that you will probably start adding strength immediately if you add back in carbs. But theres no secret there. If numbers in the gym are your foremost priority then sure go ahead and switch diets. But if you think raw paleo and low carbs are the way then you need to think about switching your routine in the short run. In fact, I have a feeling this diet will give better longer term gains than any other conventional method out there. If you don't switch routines and stay with it a bit longer then imo you haven't given it a fair chance.

Best  of luck with whatever you choose.

[Raw Kyle]

Hey Guittarman, what are your health and fitness goals? I just realized I had a pretty bad fixation on attaining the body I had when I ate SAD before and lifted weights. If I wanted to I probably could, but I would have to stuff myself with what I'm eating now and focus a lot of time and effort on working out that I could spend on something else. I work out now more simply and am happy with my body and it's performance. I eat and don't fixate myself on perfection in that area anymore either. My body stays at it's natural weight easily, even when I eat less then usual, or more. What was I striving for?

This may not apply to you, but myself I was unhealthily fixated on the idea of lifting weights for body image for a long time. I'm a lot happier with my outlook now. My body naturally tends towards something like Brad Pitt in Snatch, rather than a bodybuilder.

Is bodybuilding a hobby for you? How long have you been doing it?

[Guittarman03]

Sort of a hobby, sort of a challenge.  I just like it.  I like being strong, I like lifting, I like the way I look when I put on muscle, I like the functionnality that it adds, and I think it's generally one of the most healthy forms of exercise.  I also make sure to maintain flexibility.

I used to do more of what could be considered body building, hitting the shoulders and arms a good bit, negleting to do many squats or deadlifts.  But ultimatly I was more prone to injury and becoming somewhat imbalanced in my proportions for trying to target the 'vanity' muscles if you will.  Ultimately I learned that the best way to get big and strong is to do heavy weights, 5-8 reps, no more than 3 days a week, lifting the big functional movements (so really I don't spend a lot of time on this, probably one reason I started becoming more active again on the forum).   

Now that I have the basics down (as opposed to 3 sets of 10 like almost everyone does), I'm interested to find an optimal nutrition plan, which is why I'm giving the VLC another go.  I've already proven to myself that carb metabolism would probably help me get 10-15 lbs of mostly muscle in just a few months (which is more than I've ever gained before - I'm kind of a hard gainer).  It just worked so immediately and so much better than anything I've ever done before, that I'm not even worried about getting the size I want anymore, b/c I know I can always just go back to eating a bunch of carbs and raw meat to get there if I want.

But instead I'm interested to see how a PROPER lifting routine (that is, proper for putting on strength and mass) will mix with a VLC diet.  Again, I've only just learned how to lift properly, and the difference is night and day.  So hopefully my body will adapt, I can continue with VLC, and hopefully contibute something towards the mostly neglected body of research in the realm of raw ketogenic diets and athletic perfomance. 

So yeah, part of it is about looking good naked, but there's more to it than just that.

[klowcarb]

I agree with so much in your last post.

This is me, too: "Sort of a hobby, sort of a challenge.  I just like it.  I like being strong, I like lifting, I like the way I look when I put on muscle, I like the functionnality that it adds, and I think it's generally one of the most healthy forms of exercise.  I also make sure to maintain flexibility." As an ectomorph female, lifting makes me strong and gives me a defined, fitness athlete figure rather than just skinny fat.

This: "Ultimately I learned that the best way to get big and strong is to do heavy weights, 5-8 reps, no more than 3 days a week, lifting the big functional movements (so really I don't spend a lot of time on this, probably one reason I started becoming more active again on the forum)." This is what I do as well. Many women do light weights and high volume, which is pointless. I do a few isolation moves, but mostly compound movements for arms and back.  I do weightless squats and heavy resistance on the stairstepper for legs, but otherwise do not want or need to work legs.

And this: "So yeah, part of it is about looking good naked, but there's more to it than just that." ZC + Warrior Diet + Raw + Weightlifting has given me the looking good naked PLUS feeling energetic, having clear skin, soft hair and freedom from eating all the time!

I'll be following your continued progress, Guittarman03.

[Guittarman03]

Ah finally good news to share.  So I'm fairly convinced that I was going through a sort of secondary adjustment if you will.

-I feel much better
-My urinary ketones have gone down, not to the low they were at first, but have dropped quite a bit
-My cold tolerance has returned
-Instead of hunger pangs between waking and lunch, I just feel that my stomach is empty w/o being hungry
-I have more energy between waking and lunch, in fact, I notice a drop in energy after lunch.  Hell, maybe I'll eventually move to 1 meal per day
-Went snowboarding this past Sunday, didn't eat anything till 4PM but had no energy problems on the mountain
-Put on a couple pounds the past few days, despite eating less food.
-Lifted today, and for the first time since starting a ketogenic diet, I felt that "this 45 lb plate feels light", "these squats feel light"
- Squats: 245lb, 14 reps and 9 reps, much improved form since last time I did squats.  Normally I don't do that many reps, but I was just able to push em out.  I'll work on getting better form before moving the weight up though.

Not only that, but I'm starting to feel the effects of rapid healing again.  I remember before that whenever I'd get hurt, I was just amazed at how fast my body would heal.  Well, I tried a jump on Sunday, landed straight on my left hip bone from a good 5 feet up.  Walking, even just moving my left leg while sitting would hurt.  I was a little worried I'd have to hold off on the gym this week (as it's a 2 lower body sessions), but somewhere in the middle of the night, it's almost like it magically got better.  I mean, still hurts a little when I push on it, but nothing that I really even think about during the day.

Thanks for the inputs, they convinced me to hold off adding any carbs back in for a little bit longer, and I suspect over the next few weeks I should start to see some significant gains again.

[Guittarman03]

More good news.  I went snowboarding today for about 5 hrs.  I didn't eat anything.  I got home around 4PM, and then went to lift squats and deadlifts an hour later.  My squats have dropped a little from Tuesday, but my deads finally improved, it's been a good 4 weeks now since I've seen significant improvement on deadlifts.  I'm not too disappointed about the squats as 5 hrs of boarding and jumping is bound to take a little out of you.  Nonetheless, I still matched what I did for squats on this same routine 10 days ago.  (If that is confusing, I have 2 separate leg workouts that both involve squats, but only 1 involves deadlifts). 

Squat:  245lb - 11 reps and 9 reps
Deadlift:  295 - 7 reps and 6 reps
Calves and Wrists:  Just some basic calf raises and wrist curls, I improved on both of these as well.

I finally did eat at about 7PM.  I also only ate 1 meal yesterday.  I'll probably keep going w/ 1 meal a day unless that starts becoming a problem.  Next week is 2 upper body workouts, starting on Tuesday.  My next LB will be on Thur, but it won't involve deadlifts.   

[sven]

Hey man that's a good amount of weight you're squatting and deadlifting.  I'm gonna try to catch up to you within the next month or so

[Paleo Donk]

Glad to see you are improving. Keep the updates up if you can. 14 squats at 245 is very good. Why not throw some more weight on there?

[Guittarman03]

I'm still not quite getting my thighs parallel to the floor.  While my form has improved even from when I was doing lower weight, I want to make sure I can get perfect form before adding any more weight.  I think part of it is also a flexibilty issue.  Next lower body session (thursday) I'm going to sacrifice reps to make sure I get there.  If I can still do 10 or more, then I'll put more weight on next time. 

How much do you turn your feet out?  I'm probably about 20 degrees outward.  Also, I do squats, deadlifts, and standing shoulder press barefoot.