Josh's Newbie Journal

[Josh]

Hi there.

I'm gonna jump straight in and start keeping a journal, for my own records and hopefully to interest others in the future. I'm gonna go fairly fast into a purely carnivorous diet, because I want to see what happens and I have some liberty to take 'sick days' for the time being if I feel any adaption effects. When I see what happens, I can experiment with dialling in carbs as necessary.

Starting out, I think my body must be used to ketogenic activity to a certain extent as I have been low carb for a while, fast regularly and seem to get energy from fat ok. Still not clear on the exact difference between ketogenic activity, ketosis, ketoacidos and other terms. If I'm gonna do this though, I'll have to use intuition and dead reckoning, as I don't see myself getting biomarkers checked etc checked for a while.

I've bought some supermarket organic mince until I find a supplier, and a bit of tuna steak. Most beef is fairly grass fed in the UK apparently, so I reckon it will be better than eating whatever I would have had anyway.

I intend to use up my stocks of olive, coconut and fish oil to make up fat intake while I locate supplies of suet, marrow etc.

TylerDurden kindly pointed me in the direction of some farmers markets, so will visit a few of those at the weekend to see what's going on.

My current exercises are running, http://www.shovelglove.com/, and tai chi. I'm going to try and do a bit of each every day instead of seperate workouts, to hopefully ease my body into the process and keep burning off glycogen.

Peace.

Josh

[Josh]

Felt fantastic yesterday...I think this is the first stage of going into ketosis, burning up glycogen by fasting and exercising. By experience with low carb I expect the high to lessen then fog and fatigue to come on, but we'll see.

Had my first meal of raw mince last night, backed up with some olive and coconut.

It tasted ok...pretty neutral. After I ate a bit, I started to get some slight gagging. I got down about 250g and left the other half of the packet for later. Bloody hell, it was undigestible...it felt like a lead weight in my stomach all night. I was constipated today as well. I think I will make some lightly seared burgers today...cheating, but I need to get some nutrition while I'm adapting.

I tried making a kind of stroganina with thin slices of frozen raw tuna steak and a bit of dressing. It wasn't very nice. I think it would work with salmon though.

Today I'm going to eat a few raw eggs that I know I can handle and my rare burgers.

[Raw Kyle]

I seared meat for a while. Sounds like you're off to a good start.

[Josh]

Thanks man.

I woke up today feeling very brain foggy. General energy level was ok.

I went for my run and ran for about 20 mins over rough ground. I got out of breath very quickly and felt a bit achy, but pushed myself moderately.

I felt a craving for some bitter leaves, so ate a little bit of lettuce and chard. I'm not sure if this was the right move, but I feel very good now. Loads of energy and a clear head. Not sure if it's from the lettuce or fasting or what.

I don't feel the need for food at all yet today, so may just fast. I want to avoid starvation mode and lowering my metabolism. Maybe I will just eat fats..olive and coconut.

Peace.

[Josh]

Had 2 eggs and some fat last night. I have reasonable energy levels, but don't feel like eating much.

Hope this is not a sign of starvation mode. I have a feeling that I should eat some heart. I'm gonna try and hunt some down today...not literally unfortunately 

I saw a sheep carcass in a meat lorry today and as a thought experiment imagined pulling bits off and tucking in. Felt ok...better than before.

[Josh]

Yesterday I had another bowl of raw mince. I ate my fats first, which I think helped it go down, and had a couple of raw eggs for dessert.

It felt like it was sitting in my stomach better...not such a 'lead weight'...however about an hour after I felt very strange...I had very mild nausea and my guts were gurgling like crazy. The strange thing was though I was feeling massive surges of energy and libido...weird. This went on for about 4 hours.

After it settled down I felt a warm glow in my stomach, and went to sleep. Today I feel a bit seedy to be honest...had loose stools and feel a bit ill. Not too bad though...there's something good about it that makes me want to see it through.

I ate a few random greens from an allotment in the morning...wild garlic and a few flowers.

Onward and upward...

[Raw Kyle]

My experience has always been that cooked food, in particular grains and dairy and other neolithic fare, feel to sit in my stomach for a long time. Raw meat, of all the foods I've ever eaten whether for taste or health, seems to digest the easiest for me, calorie for calorie.

[Josh]

Think I tracked down the stomach problems...seems to be vitamin pills I was taking with the meal. Something about the combo with meat/0 carb doesn't work.

Couple of days ago I bought some raw mutton. The fat tasted good...kind of like chocolate in a funny sort of way. The meat tasted kind of good...I think I could get a taste for it. It was hard to get the meal down even so. I'm not sure why...it tasted reasonable but something was telling me 'this is not food don't eat it'

I felt great yesterday...loads of energy. Today I hit a kind of wall and feel like death. The only kind of food I want to eat is carbs...have massive cravings. I feel tense weak and a bit crazy. I've been eating various kinds of dried meat just to get some food into me.

A big problem is that I just haven't been hungry..haven't been able to eat enough to keep me going.

I think it's important to find a source of suet. Coconut oil is more ketogenic...this might be part of the problem..making me lose weight. I'm having a good look round today.

I'm gonna keep eating as much dried meat as I want as well...starving will just ruin the whole thing.

I'm determined to see this through and see if it works...otherwise I'll be eating carbs and never know if I could have got through the bad times.

Peace.

[TylerDurden]

I got stomach-aches when I mixed supplements like vitamin pills with any raw food. That was early on in the diet when I still had a couple months' supply of vitamin/mineral etc. supplements to use up - however, in the end, I decided to throw the rest away rather than finish all of them.

Re carb-cravings/total loss of appetite for meats:- Sound as though you're going through what I did(re feeling like death, having to force myself to eat small amounts of meats my body didn't want etc.) Keep at it for a short while, if you want, but don't go on to the bitter end as it could easily get dangerous, otherwise.  I gave up on raw, zero-carb after 2 or 3 serious tries, and my health certainly hasn't suffered as a result. Most of the successful zero-carbers I've read about seem to only experience a few side-effects during the transition stage which soon vanish unlike the rather extreme highly negative experiences others like us have gone through re experimenting with zero-carb. If you can't get through this stage, I would suggest going low-carb/very-low-carb for a year before trying again, just in case, but that's all.

[Nicola]

I don't know but perhaps some do so well because they eat cooked meat and fat to some degree?

Nicola

[TylerDurden]

I don't know but perhaps some do so well because they eat cooked meat and fat to some degree?

Nicola

Rubbish. Cooked meat and fat contains so many heat-created toxins that it's inevitable that such people will develop health-problems over time. Look at the bear with his cancer.

[Josh]

Hi.

I'm gonna take Tyler's advice as it did seem to be getting a bit dangerous - dizzy spells, no toilet, hard to eat anything. Yesterday I just ate whatever...oats, blueberries, cooked meat to get some food into me then a run and big breakfast today.

I think a couple of things could possibly have happened...1) coconut oil may not be a good substitute for animal fat...it's good for giving you an energy boost, but it's known for making you lose weight.
2) because I'm not used to raw meals I just wasn't getting enough food and my metabolism slowed down
3) not ready for 0 carb for another reason

Some combination of the above put me in starvation mode.

So for now, I'm just eating a standard balanced diet...my plan is to get stocks of animal fat in suet, marrow etc and get used to shopping at the market. I will keep to a 'balanced' diet at first with some amount of cooked starches, and phase in raw meals with plenty of raw fat.

When I'm used to eating raw food, I can try going low carb with a bit of fruit, then maybe have another shot at 0 carb in the future if I want.

Also going to research the keto adaption thing more.

Peace.

PS - I had the thought that if the bear was a member of the grateful dead his throat probably took a lot of abuse one way or another!

[Josh]

ATTACK OF THE KILLER CARBS!!!
or 'guts gone wild'
by Candida Acidopholopholus

After deciding to eat balanced meals for a while, I'm afraid I overindulged in the carbs. I thought I had an excuse to give in to the carb cravings for a bit to put on a couple of pounds and get out of starvation mode. WRONG!!!

I had a few meals like curry and rice, noodles or potatoes and have to confess a few cakes and buns, and a load of fresh fruit. I should have taken it easy, but have been so strict with diet for so long that I guess I was looking for an excuse to crack.

I read on here that intestinal flora that live on different kinds of food can cause cravings for their dinner of choice. That seems to make sense with my recent experience. After giving into the carb cravings it seems like my intestinal flora got out of balance. I had terrible wind and diarrhea for 2 days..still have a funny fuzzy feeling and a sweet taste in my mouth. Although I felt ill, I still had a craving to eat more carbs and sweet things. Maybe giving up carbs for a bit caused them to die down, hence getting big cravings for their chosen food...then they flared up in response to the big carb input.

Seems to have settled down a bit now. I ate a large quantity of salty dried meat (biltong) which seemed to help a lot. Anyway I've learned something from the experience...carb cravings are probably just the microorganisms talking, don't listen.

Also made me think not to underestimate the importance of enjoyment in diet. I've been trying to eat in the way that's functionally best for my body. Even if it turns out that zero carb is the ultimate diet (which I'm not sure of after reading a few things), it still might be best to eat a bit of fruit or whatever for the pure enjoyment factor. After all, most of us want to stick to this for the rest of our lives so you have to factor in a bit of pleasure in the equation.

Anyway, I'm gonna shoot for about 100g carb a day for now and get used to shopping and eating raw paleo...then see if I want to go any lower.

[Raw Kyle]

Try keeping paleo carbs in the house but only eat them when you have a craving. I like berries and raw unheated honey.

[Ironbeef]

When I have a carb craving, I eat raw surloin steak, thinly sliced and mixed with chopped Granny Smith apples, dripped in lightly heated coconut oil.....Eliminates my craving immediately.

[Josh]

Hi. Yeh, carb cravings are a funny one. I don't usually have a problem being disciplined...the question is how much should I give in to carb cravings? How many carbs do I need or want? I don't think anyone has a definitive answer at the moment.

I've been eating some raw meat and cooked meat on alternate days. My cooked meals have been a bit shoddy to be honest...had a kebab yesterday lol. I'm gonna sort that out and cook healthy food. I feel that I have to see this as a long term transition...a post said that it could take 8-12 months to get a proper taste for raw meat for a start.

I got a few rump steaks at the weekend and been eating them raw and cooked. The steak is very easy to eat and digests pretty easily. I would recommend this for newbies. I also got some liver which is a bit more challenging! When I eat it there's something about it that's really good - I can see why it is a prized delicacy. However, it does have a dark musky taste as well which is gonna take a bit of getting used to.

Still need some fat...hopefully will be able to order some suet and marrow soon. I feel that this could be key...raw fat is easy to eat and will hopefully get my ketones up and running nicely.

Peace.

[Guittarman03]

I also got some liver which is a bit more challenging! When I eat it there's something about it that's really good - I can see why it is a prized delicacy. However, it does have a dark musky taste as well which is gonna take a bit of getting used to.

I have the exact same experience with liver.  Like there's an instinctual desire to eat more, even though it just tastes so strong.  One thing you can try is what Kyle said, to keep some berries and honey around, eat them as small snacks.  When I first started I liked to eat them with coconut oil, though I don't eat coconut oil anymore. 

If you're looking for fat, maybe try avocado with steak, or ribs and ribeyes.  I know they're a bit expenisve tho.  A less expensive option is to eat some nuts (tho they're probably not ideal in any more than small amts) - almonds, pecans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds are high in fat, low in carbs.  Also, you can try eating bell peppers and tomatoes with your beef.  Or sometimes I'll eat a lemon or a lime randomly during the day if I'm feeling it.

I find that I can't do 0 carbs either, whether I've gone cold turkey or tried a gradual shift.  I don't even need carbs every day, but I do need them occasionally.  I would be willing to bet if you ate just a some bell peppers/tomatoes or avocado with your beef, and maybe a few berries every day, you could keep your carb cravings at bay without any loss of energy.     

[Josh]

I did buy some avocados but now find that I have lost my taste for vegetables...just don't want them. I'm eating fruit and meat, which may be no bad thing.

I picked up some organ meats on Sunday - hearts, lambs liver, beef kidney. I find kidney tastier than liver which is surprising. Lamb heart is great though...tangy and soft and easy to digest.

My diet has been looking like: a couple of raw egg yolks for breakfast, some grazing in the day on fruit and nuts and a meat and fat meal in the evening, cooked and raw alternate days.

I think this has helped, because when I couldn't eat enough raw I could compensate by getting more food the next day.

I think it's time to move towards all raw though.

I've been feeling great...starting to approach how I felt on a healthy 'balanced' diet. There could be a few reasons. I am eating a fair amount of paleo carbs...maybe 2-3 apples a day, some berries and a fair amount of nuts.

Also been exercising hard every day, and keeping up the tai chi and other disciplines which may be a factor.

But hopefully, this means that I am getting used to the raw diet and it will carry on. I'm going to gradually cut the carbs down...I already use fasts and semi fasts to get some ketones going so hopefully it will work out.

Josh

[TylerDurden]

Actually, most RAFers find liver the most difficult raw organ to get used to. Kidney probably comes 2nd-last. I  took an instant liking to raw kidney, having had it as a child, but liver took ages for me to handle the taste of.

Re vegetables:- Standard vegetables like kale/broccoli etc. aren't really meant to be eaten raw due to a particularly hefty amount of (rather specific) antinutrients in them, and quite a number of RAFers experience issues with raw avocadoes(well, certainly, I do, and I can't easily handle other kinds of raw vegetable-fats, either).

My solution was to just experiment and duly found that carrots (1 bunch once a year or so) and samphire(eaten in small amounts but regularly for 1 to 3 months of the year) and a few other vegetables like radishes work fine for me and are also quite tasty, unlike broccoli et al. I even recently did an experiment with raw salad lettuce soaked in raw apple-cider vinegar.

[Guittarman03]

I have had probs w/ avocado in the past (after I started the diet), but I seem to do okay now.  I think part of the prob was I ate 1-2 every day when I first started, now I eat 1/2 - 1 every other day.  I can't eat raw carrots or broccoli, they make my stomach hurt.  If I do eat them, it is steamed and b/c I'm at a restaurant ordering the rarest steak they'll give me. 

Tyler, how did you like the ACV soaked lettuce?  How did it work for you?  I used to make some great tasting salads w/ lettuce, spinach, tomato, bell pepper, jalapenos, onions, garlic, ginger, and a honey/ACV mixture for dressing.  I toss in tupperware and let soak for a bit in the fridge.  Haven't done that in a long time now.  Tasted great, but I always end up eating too much and get a sore stomach. 

[TylerDurden]

Well it's an acquired taste but I just love the sharp taste of raw apple-cider vinegar. Previously, I was very reluctant to try the raw salads that acquaintances often foisted on me as the oils and vinegar was always processed and I'm not too fond of raw veg without extra oils(except carrots and radishes which I do fine on). Now that I know I can easily find the raw vinegar anywhere, it's not such a problem any more.

Re pains in stomach:- Yes, that's what I get with some antinutrient-rich foods. I get them from sushi(due to the cooked rice etc.), most raw mushrooms(but not all), and raw nuts if eaten in large quantities.

[Nicola]

Well it's an acquired tasted but I just love the sharp taste of raw apple-cider vinegar.

I wonder why you crave vinegar? Paleo? I have read (German) about digestive/health eschews threw acids.

[TylerDurden]

I wonder why you crave vinegar? Paleo? I have read (German) about digestive/health eschews threw acids.

I don't necessarily crave raw vinegar but I like to experiment with foods, now and then, without having to delve into forbidden foods. Plus, eating raw carbs in the company of SAD-eaters is a hell of a lot easier than eating raw meats. And I find that cooked animal food is very unhealthy for me, so a raw salad seems a nice compromise.

[Josh]

Well, annoyingly it looks like I'm going to have to give up for now, not by choice, but I don't have sufficient sources of fat at the moment. The online supplier I was gonna order from doesn't actually let you order as much as you need      I'm gonna need at least what...60g a day min, and have found from experience that the vegetable oils don't work.

I'm gonna have to revert to eating starchy carbs for a while, and raw meat doesn't seem to mix with that. Hopefully soon I'll be in a position soon to do all the phone calls and find some reliable places to get suet, marrow, hide fat etc.

Will update when I hopefully get back on the wagon.

[TylerDurden]

Why go for unhealthy starchy carbs when you can get perfectly good raw carbs(eg:- raw, organic fruit)?