Bad news for vegetarians! If you want grandchildren, make sure you eat MEAT

[ys]

If you have one good reason.

I think your claim re b12 is dubious.  I'm interested to see what evidence you have.  Or maybe you have none?

[sabertooth]

Im all for discussions with people who hold interesting points of view, and debating the most far out theories with gusto, but will agree with Ys that there comes a time after one makes such challenging and belligerent claims, that you have to put up or shut up. Where is the proof that humans can obtain enough B12 on an entirely vegetarian diet? Where is the proof that Humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet past the second generation? All we are hearing is hyperbole and obfuscation.

Nothing so far has convinced me to give up eating meat. Many of the other subjects regarding the terrible state of modern man I will agree with, but I have to strongly disagree with the conclusion that vegetarianism is an answer to any of it.

As for the intellectual challenge to prove yourself mightier than all the meat eaters here...I'll take a bite..but one must first recognize that there are multiple forms of intelligence...mechanical, emotional, cognitional, kinetic and on and on and on.....

You maybe able to write magnificent cursive, and articulate golden verse better than I,  but I would best you in a heart beat in a number of different challenges.  I would beat you in a Pole dancing competition any day, and you wouldn't stand a chance in a cage match with me.... as an electrician I have highly advanced technical skills....the point being that anyone can claim superiority in one thing, but to truly span the universe of intellect one must perform multiple feats of ingeniousness.

Personally I dont buy into the theory of vegetarianism providing a survival edge in any contest of strength, intellect, or reproductive prowess. So far I haven't seen any proof that veterinarians can even produce healthy offspring past the second generation, so its hard to believe all the other claims regarding the alleged intellectual superiority that could be attained on such a meatless diet.

[TylerDurden]

SB, please distinguish between vegetarianism and veganism. There are plenty of sects(Jain etc.)  who do OK on vegetarian diets over millenia, and some presumably seem to do OK on even vegan diets over generations....

[ys]

Vegetarians do consume eggs and milk and b12 with it.

It is probably possible for vegans to be in good health for a long time somewhere in tropics where great variety of plant food is in season all year round.  But in the northern hemisphere vegans are doing poorly.  I see so many failed vegan stories all over the internet.

Vegetarians also do poorly the more north you go.

[van]

Not all elephants and squirrels have intelligence and intellect just as not all humans have intelligence and intellect.

Fast reflexes is a sign of long term potentiation.

Squirrels that I've fed an abundance of in-shell black oil sunflower seeds were extremely fast days later when they chased the non-intelligent squirrels from the high quality food and were quite intelligent and playful in their mating behavior. Quite similar to humans when a male is courting a female. Unfortunately many squirrels live around junk food eating humans and therefore are fed junk roasted nuts and cookies. And suffer from addiction and chronic stress from the car noise & air pollution as self evident by their ringworm infection. Hence why they seem unintelligent in cities while suffering immensely.

Sharks also have the same ability as dolphins regarding half of the brain staying awake and they have puny brains.

Dolphins have large brains because of their mating behavior and their consumption of a lot of Omega fatty acids from fish and seaweed. Love increases the production of neurochemicals which drives the production of prostaglandins in the nervous system which lastly stimulates the production of neurotrophins.

Love, not war, drives cranial expansion.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51246752_NGF_and_romantic_love

Lions on the other hand kill cups of their own specie so they can mate right away with the mother. There is nothing more stupid, arrogant and selfish then this type of action.

If you have one good reason.

You fail to see the difference between neurodegeneration(deficiency), maintenance(sufficient) and neurogenesis(abundance of Omega fatty acids, vitamins and minerals). Elephants can keep eating foliage and never increase their cranial size from baseline because there isn't any Omega 6 fatty acids from whole foods in abundance to provide the "Lamarckian epigenetic quantum leap". Especially while living near the equator since Vitamin D limits the production of prostaglandins. Hence why those living further away from the equator have larger cranials.

What you said regarding lions makes sense on a elementary level however not on a biochemical level.

You're assumption that humans are the most magnificent jewel of the natural world is wishful thinking. The majority of humans are gullible and arrogant. They will do anything for made up monopoly money including hurting their own specie. Hence placing amalgam fillings in young children's teeth without their permission and ruining their lives for decades and nobody caring or doing anything while these children not only have to reverse their own neurodegeneration but they need to piece their lives back together while trying to learn to trust these waste of a life humans that keep making a mess.

We started consuming raw nuts and oily seeds like cantaloupe seeds(rich in Omega 6 fatty acids) before we gained enough brain mass to migrate for the seafood. I don't deny we consumed a lot of seafood that contributed in conjunction of Omega 6's to our present cranial size however my own experience as a child trying to consume raw grass fed meat and having trouble chewing it and spitting it out just like spitting out and gagging on broccoli tells me that meat from land animals is survival food. While consuming large quantities of Merluzzo, lattuga, raw pistacchios, melons and stone fruits to my hearts desire while growing up in Italy tells me more than anything.

My experience with consuming raw grass fed beef without condiments for a couple of weeks led to the same conclusion. Quite disgusting body odor. And it is self-evident that those who consume meat from land animals aren't anywhere near as attractive as those of us who don't consume land animals.   The fact that you had bad body odor from raw meat only suggests something you haven't explored yet.  There are a number of reasons why YOU had odor, none of which mean that raw grass fed beed contributes to body odor.  DIG deeper and relax;   there is more to learn before assuming you're an expert on the subject.

My own experience tells me that Adrenic Acid is superior than DHA and the science proves that AA is a lot more potent than EPA for growth unless someone is deficient in Vitamin D, then EPA can work for bone resorption. My own experience of gaining half an inch in penile length from 7" to 7.5" and girth from 5.5" to 6" tells me that the biochemical science is correct in regards to PGE1(made from an Omega 6 fatty acid) in increasing penis size in conjunction of prolonged love making.

I have a proposition for you to test whose brain is more efficienct (Long-term potentiation). Write a paragraph in cursive if you can as soon as you wake up. Initial it with your username and date. I will do the same. Whoever has the more legible and impeccable hand writing wins.  Are you up for the challenge?

[van]

my reply got embedded within the third to the last paragraph. sorry. but please take the time to find it.

[sabertooth]

SB, please distinguish between vegetarianism and veganism. There are plenty of sects(Jain etc.)  who do OK on vegetarian diets over millenia, and some presumably seem to do OK on even vegan diets over generations....

Alright....I will admit there is a distinction between vegetarianism and veganism, in as much as vegetarians who do consume some animal derived foods such as milk, eggs, honey, ect are much more capable of raising viable offspring than dogmatic vegans...but that in no way means that vegetarianism leads to the kind of optimal traits expressed in apex hunter gatherers of the high paleolithic.

Perhaps it was an exaggeration to state that vegetarianism on whole is not a viable mode for human existence... though I do not consider the way of life of people like the Jain as a good example to be imitated by those seeking optimal health. Sure they can do "OK", but can they thrive and evolve into higher forms?or are they simply subsisting? Is it possible for people without any of their adaptations to adopt their way of life successfully?

The Jain have had thousands of years to adapt to such an austere diet, and still if you were to examine them closely, their vitality would not hold a candle to the prowess of apex paleolithic hunting cultures.

[cobalamin]

Im all for discussions with people who hold interesting points of view, and debating the most far out theories with gusto, but will agree with Ys that there comes a time after one makes such challenging and belligerent claims, that you have to put up or shut up. Where is the proof that humans can obtain enough B12 on an entirely vegetarian diet? Where is the proof that Humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet past the second generation? All we are hearing is hyperbole and obfuscation.

Nothing so far has convinced me to give up eating meat. Many of the other subjects regarding the terrible state of modern man I will agree with, but I have to strongly disagree with the conclusion that vegetarianism is an answer to any of it.

As for the intellectual challenge to prove yourself mightier than all the meat eaters here...I'll take a bite..but one must first recognize that there are multiple forms of intelligence...mechanical, emotional, cognitional, kinetic and on and on and on.....

You maybe able to write magnificent cursive, and articulate golden verse better than I,  but I would best you in a heart beat in a number of different challenges.  I would beat you in a Pole dancing competition any day, and you wouldn't stand a chance in a cage match with me.... as an electrician I have highly advanced technical skills....the point being that anyone can claim superiority in one thing, but to truly span the universe of intellect one must perform multiple feats of ingeniousness.

Personally I dont buy into the theory of vegetarianism providing a survival edge in any contest of strength, intellect, or reproductive prowess. So far I haven't seen any proof that veterinarians can even produce healthy offspring past the second generation, so its hard to believe all the other claims regarding the alleged intellectual superiority that could be attained on such a meatless diet.

You'll figure out how humans are able to produce their own B12 with bacteria if you can figure out why professional basketball players are the size they are.

I'm not a vegan by choice or label myself as a vegan. I'm a plant only eater by force because 4 mercury fillings were placed in my teeth at 13 and I've lived in HELL for many years while the experts did nothing but try to abuse me more. When I gained my awareness because of abundance of plant foods and a plant based Vitamin D3 supplement. I then started to figure it out for myself and made my discoveries.

I have magnificent cursive because of the oily seeds high in Omega 6's, magnesium and arginine however I will never be able to articulate any books since I'm a born polymath and straight forward copy and paste learning will never work since it leads to cognitive dissonance. You've lowered your intelligence to the level of a chimp regarding the cage match and I wouldn't be so sure since everyone who has ever fought me has never been able to hit me due to my fast reflexes. A better amicable feat would be to see who can move more skids of big interlocking bricks and see who cries first of back pain.

I have to give it to you that electrical work requires highly advanced technical skills... especially when wiring those 3 ways and 4 ways in your head however this type of work is below what the energy in my brain is capable of. I've done it and it's easy.

Most vegetarians/vegans eat a low fat&protein diet and hence the problem. I on the other hand get harder morning erections from consuming a cup of lightly ground hulled sesame seeds than I ever did consuming raw grass fed meat.

Search libido on this forum and you'll see many have problems with loosing their libido. Hence the irony of this thread.

[ys]

You'll figure out how humans are able to produce their own B12 with bacteria if you can figure out why professional basketball players are the size they are.

So, you don't have any evidence.  Even if humans could produce B12 in the colon, they cannot absorb it.  B12 absorption occurs in the small intestine where nutrients are taken up to liver through the portal vein.  At least that's what the researchers are saying. That's exactly the mechanism for rabbits and that's one of the reasons they eat their own poop.

[van]

You'll figure out how humans are able to produce their own B12 with bacteria if you can figure out why professional basketball players are the size they are.

I'm not a vegan by choice or label myself as a vegan. I'm a plant only eater by force because 4 mercury fillings were placed in my teeth at 13 and I've lived in HELL for many years while the experts did nothing but try to abuse me more. When I gained my awareness because of abundance of plant foods and a plant based Vitamin D3 supplement. I then started to figure it out for myself and made my discoveries.

I have magnificent cursive because of the oily seeds high in Omega 6's, magnesium and arginine however I will never be able to articulate any books since I'm a born polymath and straight forward copy and paste learning will never work since it leads to cognitive dissonance. You've lowered your intelligence to the level of a chimp regarding the cage match and I wouldn't be so sure since everyone who has ever fought me has never been able to hit me due to my fast reflexes. A better amicable feat would be to see who can move more skids of big interlocking bricks and see who cries first of back pain.

I have to give it to you that electrical work requires highly advanced technical skills... especially when wiring those 3 ways and 4 ways in your head however this type of work is below what the energy in my brain is capable of. I've done it and it's easy.

Most vegetarians/vegans eat a low fat&protein diet and hence the problem. I on the other hand get harder morning erections from consuming a cup of lightly ground hulled sesame seeds than I ever did consuming raw grass fed meat.

Search libido on this forum and you'll see many have problems with loosing their libido. Hence the irony of this thread.


  Please get back to us in five to ten years of eating a cup of sesame seeds in the morning, and let us know how you're doing.  Who knows, we all may learn something. 

[Alive]

...
Search libido on this forum and you'll see many have problems with loosing their libido. Hence the irony of this thread.
...

This isn't something I have seen many posts on.

This is definitely not a problem in my case, the best ever performance at middle age :-)

I just can't see why you think a diet which includes raw meat would have a bad impact on peoples sexual health?

[goodsamaritan]

Search libido on this forum and you'll see many have problems with loosing their libido. Hence the irony of this thread.

This statement is so FALSE and so UNTRUE in my experience.

Raw paleo diet, raw meat I keep telling friends ASSURES erections and libido and lots of "bullets" if you eat raw oysters too!

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, raw oysters and rotting meat do indeed have a positive impact on sexual potency/health.

[Alive]

Quality sushi-mi gets me going 

[cobalamin]

Seafood isn't considered meat.

So, you don't have any evidence.  Even if humans could produce B12 in the colon, they cannot absorb it.  B12 absorption occurs in the small intestine where nutrients are taken up to liver through the portal vein.  At least that's what the researchers are saying. That's exactly the mechanism for rabbits and that's one of the reasons they eat their own poop.

There is 2 ways in which bacteria produce B12. Not 1. We produce it in 2 ways and absorb it only in 1 way.