the6step's journal

[the6step]

So I've been at it for about 2 weeks or so. I did immediately cut out all dairy, cooked foods, vegetables. I've only been eating fruit, raw eggs. I ate ground beef 2 times the first week, and now this week I've been struggling trying to choke down some lamb liver & heart, cutting it into small enough pieces to swallow and putting it right in. I've also been doing coconut manna.

I feel seriously sick. Like every time I get up, I'm seriously dizzy, and it's hard to tell whether my body isn't getting what it needs, if I'm putting something bad in it that it doesn't like, or that I'm detoxing. I'm gorging on some strawberries right now as I didn't have much fruit over the weekend, and I've been struggling on the raw meat end... the taste is really hard to deal with.

I skipped this morning because my body is reacting crazily but I've been trying to do 6 eggs in the morning and 6 at night. I also still believe my liver is acting up... so I'm going to do some malic acid this week in preparation for my egg yolk liver flush.

I am starting to have a lot of self doubts... I'm still young and I want to date and now that I don't drink alcohol, don't eat bread, don't eat anything cooked, I have no idea how I'm going to meet new friends, or meet new girls for that matter... and I'm still unsure of the diet, and I'm unsure of the health of the people that are on the diet.

So yeah that's where I am right now. My body is telling me if I try to put any more raw protein in it right now that I'm going to have serious problems (I'm at work and feel like throwing up) so I'm going to stick with fruits maybe for a day or 2 and see what happens.

[the6step]

alright that was a bad mental spot for me, there must have been a lot of toxins in my system and my liver feels tender and more free... I couldn't stand up for like an hour there. Jeez this raw paleo stuff doesn't play around.

hxxp://rawpaleodiet.vpinf.com/cleansing-crises-1.html

This site is explaining the combo's that are bad... and it looks like I was doing all of the bad combos (8-12 eggs a day w/ liver or heart, tons of coconut oil and fruit). I honestly have been through a lot of detox phases but that was "dark".

I'm going to see this through to the end (unfortunately... lol). Those concerns I pointed out are still concerns but I mean I'll take crazy good health and figure out the rest later.

For now, going to order some guacamole, watermelons, strawberries and coconut and gorge on those. That site says to eat cooked food to slow down the detox but maybe there's a better more even keeled way to go about this.

[TylerDurden]

Look, most of us  all go through similiar steps. Most of us, for example,  have to  go through detox episodes where toxins leave our bodies, all taken up previously after decades of eating cooked foods.

When I first started, I had similiar experiences to you. As I went rawpalaeo suddenly, my already-then-severely-weakened teeth could not handle any solid, fresh raw meats. So, I would buy raw (100% grassfed) minced meat and soft, raw  wildcaught seafood and raw organ-meats  to solve that problem. As I  improved my health on the RPD diet, my teeth strengthened after a 4-month period and I was able to add  much tougher meats as well to my diet. I also found the taste of raw animal foods to be mostly disgusting. The fact that I had at the time, constant agonising stomach-aches after eating any cooked animal food and already found cooked animal food to taste very bland, helped a lot. But my ultimate solution was to try out as wide a variety of raw foods as possible until I found the ones I liked. For the first  18 months of  going rawpalaeo, I would have c.90% of my diet every week consisting of the very limited raw foods I liked the taste of right from the start, with the other 10% of my weekly diet consisting of  a myriad small amounts of new raw foods I would pick up at unusual farmers' markets/farms within 250km of my home. As time went on, my tastes changed, and I started to even like some raw foods I hated the taste of before, and even found the taste of some raw foods I initially liked at the start of going RPD to start not tasting good any more, all in line with the Instincto Diet, incidentally.

[TylerDurden]

Better to do a long water-fast than to eat cooked foods, imo.

[jessica]

Have you been using salt?  You probably need more sodium, every fruit u are using is high liquid and potassium.  Try some sea salt on the melon and drink spring water.  Also try dulse for minerals and iodine to help detox.  Some lettuce and herb greens and butter for magnesium and chlorophyll for detox too. Eat sulphuric spice and bitter. 

[a_real_man]

It sounds to me like you are doing it wrong. I would listen to my body more and not overeat any single food. I would try to do a little bit of every type of acceptable food. A few eggs, a bit of meat, a bit of fish, a bit of fruit. Personally I love dairy and found that I needed raw milk to quench some sort of thirst for salts that I was having. So I also eat a bit of cheese and butter. Just to reiterate, if you are feeling sick all the time, in my view you are doing it wrong.

[the6step]

It sounds to me like you are doing it wrong. I would listen to my body more and not overeat any single food.

I just switched over to this diet, so I have to get acquainted AND comfortable with my options. The fruit is easy, however I've been trying to stay away from overly glycemic fruits (bananas, apples) and do more of watermelon & berries (which I believe is the recommended way).

The eggs were an easy way to choke down my first raw foods.

Have you been using salt?  You probably need more sodium, every fruit u are using is high liquid and potassium.  Try some sea salt on the melon and drink spring water.  Also try dulse for minerals and iodine to help detox.  Some lettuce and herb greens and butter for magnesium and chlorophyll for detox too. Eat sulphuric spice and bitter.

Before I came here, I had protocols for salt, potassium, iodine, magnesium, chlorella (chlorophyll), and bitters. You'd be surprised how well rounded my game was.

That being said, when I first started trying raw foods, I was told to not do any "supplements". I don't know if trace minerals fall into the "supplement" category so I've abstained from doing them partially until I understand if people on raw foods actually do worse on these, and partially so my body hopefully can start functioning optimally with raw foods, and then I add the supplements and actually discern the feeling they have on my body. That being said, I have searched this forum for their thoughts on stuff like that but mentions of it were sparse, so I'm abiding to my plan above.

[the6step]

Ok so fast forward a couple of weeks. I know a lot more now.

* Raw eggs in their entirety are apparently not good unless they are fertilized eggs? They had mostly went through my body undigested. We'll have to see how my body does on just plain egg yolks?
* I did the egg yolk liver flush combined with some water & coffee enemas. I had a bunch of malic acid and lemons and I was scared as hell. It actually went pretty well... a bunch of stones, pebbles, chaff came out of me and I've actually gained a little bit of energy.
* I've backed off the liver and heart... it was way too soon. I'm still getting used to raw salmon, raw pork, raw uncured unsmoked bacon... I realized it doesn't really make any sense to get into the organs right now. Back when I did eat meat, I didn't eat any organs and probably would have thought they were nasty. Makes much more sense to get used to eating the raw versions of meat I've already eaten and enjoyed rather than to introduce variables.
* Ground beef is disgusting. Maybe it's the plastic, the oxidization... maybe my body is rebelling against the processed nature of the meat?

I'm now doing much better overall. I've introduced more fruits into the equation, I'm eating high quality guacamole every week (which is nice), I'm now eating salmon, I'm eating the raw honey + lemons I bought whenever I get a sweet tooth or my body calls out for carbs, I'm eating the eggs (but going to start eating the yolks) and overall, I'm just buckling down. The goal for this week is to buy more "realistic" raw meats. I bought some pork chops that were delicious but then I started searching here and people were talking about brain eating parasites that come with pork so I'm not going to do that for a while unless I get some reassurance. I mistakenly tried to eat some cod with the bones in it... I thought "well I'm eating paleo now so I eat the bones too" but then I got one lodged in my throat and then realized I could need surgery if any of those bones puncture anything inside me so stopped doing that. But yeah right now, just searching for good quality meat that I can put some seasoning & lemon juice on and actually enjoy.

[the6step]

For the last month I've mostly been eating eggs, fruit, and salmon. I still haven't started vegetables back yet.

The last week or so, I've been eating straight up raw sirloin steak and pork. Every time I eat it, I become incredibly tired, but I feel my body getting warmer. I thought I'd never get used to it... it's actually quite a treat when I season it right, soak it in some fresh lemon juice and add the proper amount of salt.

Hopefully I can soon start getting used to the taste of organ meats, so it can correct my health quicker. One thing I have my eye on is this raw liver pate I keep seeing. I'll have to try that for sure.

[surfsteve]

I don't eat raw pork. Afraid of it. Especially since I can't afford grass fed. I've eaten hundreds of dozens of raw eggs and I never had a problem digesting them. I would wager you have a weak digestive system if you are. My opinion is it has nothing to do with whether they are fertilized or cage free but a lot of folks don't share that opinion. Do you also have frequent heartburn? I've read that heart burn is a symptom of a weak digestive system also and that contrary to popular belief instead of taking antacids you need to take vinegar so that instead of getting temporary relief you will be actually fixing the problem. Raw apple cider vinegar is one of the few things I insist on spending money for instead of buying the cheap distilled cider vinegar.

Funny you get tired from steak and pork. You should consider some raw liver. It will give you a lot of energy. Raw kidney will give you even way more than raw liver if you can handle the taste. (I don't care for it.)  I'm not sure why but maybe it has something to do with the adrenal glands being located just on top the kidneys.

[the6step]

Oh yeah my digestive system isn't all there yet. I'm 1000% sure it's the reason for my fatigue issues.

I'll rattle off some new thoughts, some of them answer your comments:

* Raw beef at least is now normal to me. Freaking awesome! I'm very happy. It's the first non ground raw meat that I'm comfortable picking up, grabbing with my hands, and ripping into it.

* I'm curious if my teeth will adapt from eating raw meat... it isn't easy now. The easiest thing is to slice the meat in swallowable chunks, and I chew it maybe 2 times before swallowing. I notice if I'm not slicing it, then I have to try to puncture the meat with my canines and pull the meat. So THIS is why we have those.

* My seasoning game is on point now... I'm finally starting to realize I can eat tasty without all the bullshit. I cracked 3 egg yolks, dipped some beef chunks into it, then put salt, black pepper, little bit of chili powder and cayenne pepper on it... amazing.

* I actually have a bunch of raw liver / kidney I bought from my farmer. All grass fed, well treated animals (I've been to the farm and the pastures... so I'm comfortable with how the operation runs). A bunch of it is in my freezer. The taste still isn't easy to deal with for either. For seasoned beef / ground beef it's easy.... I can eat it while cleaning, reading, etc. When I'm eating liver / kidney, it's an ordeal and I usually have to stop everything I'm doing. I bought some raw honey mustard and that's been helping me get it down.

* I buy these packages of beef liver, and the bag comes with a bunch of pieces of it. The main problem I'm having is an interpretation one... I was told I need to consume thawed meat immediately... I don't know how much liver I'm supposed to consume in one sitting (and / or if I can do that) but what is happening is I thaw the liver, eat a portion of it, put the rest back in the fridge (because it's bad to freeze / thaw / freeze something) and then I get in my head because I'm like "ok but that liver in the fridge is thawed... so not only is it nasty, but a lot of the nutrition is gone in that one... so no use in eating it". I also put the liver in mason jars right now.

* I tried blending the liver for liver pate... absolutely disgusting. It was too liquidy and the taste was just too pungent. The good thing about eating the liver straight up, is if you cut it into small pieces, you just swallow it and then you don't taste it as much.


* In terms of the past couple of years, I've developed a belly pouch... that also inflates. My hunch is that when this belly pouch is gone, I'll be 75-90% healed.


* I'm doing a lot of raw eggs lately... 3 huge things I notice. First is testosterone. I've been noticing that I'm looking at girls more lately, and hold eye contact with them longer, and being noticed a lot more (I live in a major city). The 2nd thing, my energy has skyrocketed on the days where I consumed a good amount of red meat the day before, and then egg yolks in the morning. The third thing, is the egg yolks ARE still causing a lot of strain on my body. Like sometimes when I do 6 raw egg yolks in the morning, I get into work, and for like the first 2 hours there's a general sense of un-wellness, nausea... and then 85% of it goes away, becoming 15% and sort of riding the wave from 5% to 30% of the pain. I'm essentially chalking this up to detox and I may even up the dosage of raw eggs. I do feel like my liver is enlarged and that can either be because I'm anemic (again just taking guesses) or that my liver is clogged up. I know raw egg yolk breaks up cirrhotic liver, so I'm going to keep doing that.

* Since I started palaeo, I've avoided vegetables and supplements. I've avoided vegetables because this dude on this forum, goodsamaritan, has this site in his signature that said that vegetables should be avoided in the pursuit of fruits. I asked him on one of his posts but he didn't respond, and I hadn't read enough of the site to get a gauge on it. I'm now seeing that certain vegetables are commonly praised and rarely derided in raw palaeo circles.... cabbage, celery, asparagus. I luckily already had and kept a twin gear masticating juicer, so now I'm juicing cabbage... which has a high nutrient content and is said to resolve ulcers. I have some of the common symptoms of ulcers (sans bleeding) and maybe why I have the pouch... so I'm trying it, and there's no harm done if it doesn't work because of the nutrition content of the cabbage. I'm going to start to try to have at least a cup a day of fresh green juice... the only difference between now and what I would do before, is I won't try to make quarts of green juice and drink it all in one sitting, or juice shit like kale or fruit. Luckily because I did the whole vegetarian nasty supplement / juice, I can drink most of the more evil concoctions without any apple offsetting the taste, so I don't need to do any of this.

* The supplements are going to come back. I think this forum in particular has a very sort of... specific definition when they talk about supplements. What I'm referring to (which seems to be fairly accepted amongst RVAF'ers) is the idea of consuming trace minerals and some of the better supplements. Milk Thistle, boron, etc.

* I was a curezone boy before this so I've had Apple cider vinegar in the cabinet for years. I stopped taking it when I went raw because ACV will damage your teeth if you don't brush it off immediately (which I usually won't) and I have bad teeth. Also, I heard ACV can irritate the digestion system just based off of it's strength (which if you've taken ACV you know). I took ACV for a long time and my digestion only got worse. Now of course... that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the ACV but... my idea was that I'd start raw, start eating just a small subset of raw foods, and then slowly bring back old stuff into the picture and really study it again and pay attention to what my body is saying about it.

The main thing is definitely this: figuring out how much liver / kidney I should be eating, coming up with a good thawing / storing strategy (figure out the specifics of this "eat it right after you thaw it" line of thinking), figure out a good seasoning strategy (forget about this liver pate stuff), and then just continue to eat it to attempt to get accustomed to the taste.

[surfsteve]

I love apple cider vinegar. I buy it on line from lucky vitamin nearly a case at a time. I just make sure to buy enough to qualify for free shipping. I never had a problem with it with digestion or my teeth. Are you using a raw vinegar like Bragg's?

I used to take a trace mineral supplement but haven't been doing it lately. The brand I used was Concentrace. For extra boron I brush my teeth with 20  Mule Team borax. It whitens them and removes stains like nothing else.

Those twin gear juicers are expensive. Must have set you back quite a bit. I have a Champion that I bought used on Ebay. Never tried it for pate but it comes with a solid blank plate that would be really good for that. I've used it on frozen bananas and it makes them come out like ice cream. I use the juicing screen on celery and for leafy vegetables like kale and collard greens but I mostly use my Bigmouth Hamilton Beach. It will take cucumbers, small apples, tangerines and many fruits whole. I'm fond of juicing citrus fruits with their skins on. Grapefruit is really bitter that way but the rest of them are really good. My favorite is tangerines. Sometimes I add a couple key limes to them and when I want to get really fancy some strawberries to create a rainbow effect of the different colors.

It's good to hear someone talk about fruits being better than vegetables because my tastes have changed since going fully raw and I'm really liking them to the point I hardly eat vegetables anymore. Just mostly herbs and spices that I add to flavor my meats!

Raw eggs are the bomb. When I was younger I ate up to two dozen a day and blew everyone away at the gym. Vince Giranda swore by them and organ meats claimed theywill give you results every bit as good as taking oral steroids. I can attest to that! Since I discovered Ingred's recipe I've been whipping up a half a dozen egg yolks and adding fruit every day. Sometimes twice a day. Been throwing out the whites which is backwards of what most bodybuilders have done in the past. I think though that a new trend of egg yolks has begun to catch on.

Since I've gone totally raw not only has my weight been dropping rapidly but as far as I can tell nearly all of it is from my belly. Excellent! You might give my liver and onions recipe a try. I use a lot of herbs and spices on my meat as well as a lot of Celtic sea salt. It makes it taste really good and me want to chew it up thoroughly just for the simple fact that it tastes so good! Also running it through my food processor's slicer helps. I'm not into tearing off chunks of raw meat with my teeth. I know that's not very paleo of me but that's just the kinda guy I am! 

[the6step]

For the juicer, I have the Omega NC900HDC 6th Generation. It didn't set me too much back but... I have enough money to essentially get whatever I need for health reasons.

So... I actually don't dislike the taste of liver too much anymore. That was FAST. I did the whole egg yolk + spices seasoning. I came home today from a trip and was feeling pretty exhausted and I think my body was like... "man the6step we really could use some of that liver sustenance" so I broke out the liver. That actually blows my mind.

I think the biggest thing that allowed me to do it, is almost being insane with the sauces & seasonings I put on stuff. Putting lemon in my raw eggs (whole or just yolk) got me used to enjoying the taste of it. Same with beef and ground beef... now I could easily eat those alone. So I just applied that logic to liver which I've always hated... so now after eating it and seasoning it enough that my tastebuds enjoy it, after my body saw how much sustenance the liver provided it was like "bro... that liver stuff is pretty good... gets us some more of that".

I will say this.

In the past week... my mental faculties have exploded. I'm not really a slouch mentally... but it can't be a coincidence the past couple of weeks my ability to work through problems, speak effectively and congruently have really exceeded my expectations. I'm a natural cynic so when I heard that on some threads & posts, I didn't really acknowledge it but... its true.

Next steps:

* I've begun to realize that my belly pouch most likely isn't the cause of diet, but rather my inclination to slouch, which essentially makes the organs of the belly start to pop out (and I've found information online that has echoed that). I need to pursue somatics which has been the only consistent thing to make it feel better.
* I'm going to make an order for NorthStart frozen liver and other organs. Can't wait to get that... mouth is watering.
* Now that liver is fairly easy, heart & kidney are next.
* I want to start experimenting with high meat. The only hard thing is that I live in an apartment, and I really do not want my apartment stinking because of it. That being said, I've had a lot of meat I've threw into the refrigerator that was inside plastic and it just went bad inside there (and I'm not going to eat it having fermented inside plastic)... so I might as well be trying high meat. I just have to be creative about airing it? We'll see.
* Veggie juice. You know it's interesting... I've seen Tyler say veggie juice isn't good... but then I'll see people advocate cabbage juice for ulcers and such. I feel like for some things in life, something can feel great at first but then not be so good in the long run (Tyler has mentioned this phenomenon with milk... feels great now but in the long run is bad). I have to say... my body seems like it likes the veggie juice... that being said, it could potentially slow down my nutrient absorption but as I pretty much explained, it's really hard to call that after a day or 2 of veggie juice. I'm just worried that I don't notice the bad (or good) affects it starts to have on me. But... oh well I have no choice but to figure it out.

[surfsteve]

A little bit of vegetable juice seems very good for me but when I juice a whole lot of it, it seems to have the opposite effect.

I've noticed my mind seems a lot more together and my thinking a lot clearer since I started eating all raw.

I think that a belly pouch is caused by both poor posture and expanding insides. Seems like when your inner organs expand too much they cause the poor posture. One thing I don't believe is that it's caused entirely from fat. To a certain extent it is. If you have a fat arm you're going to have a fat liver and everything else. But there are lots of people that aren't fat and still have what is commonly known as a beer gut. Many of whom don't even drink beer. Drinking beer can cause gas and account for some of it but I believe the main cause is from overworking and abusing them from making them handle toxic foods that the body was never intended to digest. When organs are overworked they not only expand to accommodate the extra use but to store things they can not process properly and get rid of which I believe accounts for the bulk of their enormous size.

[the6step]

Wanted to give an update. It's almost been 2 months.

I had a full on relapse maybe a week ago. Had pizza, had a bunch of other cooked foods. If you are new to raw paleo, you might not want to read the rest of this.

So I did that, and it was glorious. It honestly tasted very good. That being said, the aftermath wasn't ideal. I got no energy from it, and it made me sluggish almost immediately. There was a feeling of irritation and mucus in the back of my throat. Compared to raw meats, the speed at which the food went down was at a snails pace comparatively. Also the flatulence and smell of stool afterwards was not so good.

It's sort of interesting. I had to actually think about this for a bit. Why can something that taste so good... be so bad for us? I'm still searching for that reason. However... I know regardless of what I fine, its not a valid reason. What if I decided to do cocaine, then kept doing it because it felt good? And that's when it hit me. When you eat something purely for taste and dopamine, but it isn't actually servicing you, and its actually damaging you, and even in the face of this you cant stop yourself from doing it, then that's when it becomes an addiction.

So maybe I was / am addicted to certain cooked foods, and I'm getting over that.

Anyway.

So as Ive been doing raw paleo, Ive slowly been trying to refine my diet. So when I started, I would go buy bacon, or pepperoni. But then I had to be honest with myself... when I ate either of those things (mostly the pepperoni) they did not make me feel good. Then I noticed they said "Fully cooked" in small f******g letters. So my perception of what is good and what is wrong is getting better, and I need to start listening to that now that I'm out of the "detox phase". Phasing out pepperoni and bacon was hard, as when I migrated over to paleo, some of these things allowed me to stay on but still get the taste I needed I guess.

The last thing I need to get rid of is ice cream. And I'm not talking about dairy... I found a way to eat ice cream without feeling bad about it: coconut ice cream. Except lately Ive had to be honest with myself, and realize it makes me feel like s***. So I had to write a long journal post to myself, explaining that I need to make the full transition now, and realize I have these addictions that don't really service me in anyway. Suck it up and deal with it.

Since making a big order at NorthStar Bison, my offal eating has improved significantly. I just ate almost half a liver without any lemon / salt / etc... and it still isn't delicious... but now its coming to the point where its neutral, and I don't have to make a face or shake my head to get it down. Bison heart with just a touch of salt I AM actually finding a bit enjoyable. Because Tyler said it so much, I finally had some swordfish... it was actually pretty good, again with some salt. It wouldn't be so bad if I could just eat that a bunch of days out of the week.

With this improvement, and me not eating the ice cream, I anticipate some improvements.

The last thing I need to do is eat less fruit. I eat tons of it now, to give me that "satisfied" feeling but maybe what I'm doing is eating in a way that avoids a detox like feeling? I dunno.

Also another one of my worries, is that eating a certain way like this is too expensive, especially for how much I'd LIKE to eat. Like... if I have 1 pound of organ meat a day, and then like 1 or 2 pieces of fruit, what the hell do I eat for the rest of the day? Eggs obviously (which are a pain to extract the egg white). I'm tenacious about eating vegetables because Ive been giving that vibe by this forum. Periodically I buy asparagus since going on this diet, but Ive never eaten them. Suffice to say, if I have more food to eat, then I can maybe cut down on the fruits, and it will be less difficult to cut the ice cream and keep it cut.

I have some other thoughts but Ill save it for a subsequent post.

[surfsteve]

What is wrong with fruits? I been eating a lot more of them since going raw paleo. I have a suggestion for the next time you are craving ice cream, though it doesn't involve cutting down on fruits. Make your own banana ice cream. Whenever you have over ripe bananas don't throw them away. Peel them and store them in the freezer for the next time you are craving ice cream.

If you have a champion juicer do it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7quoGMsP7Y

If you have a blender do it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbQG7peexIs

[the6step]

I actually don't know. I heard that you're not supposed to eat excessive amounts of them from some of the veterans here. It feels like I'm cheating because I can eat like infinite fruit, and it's a ton of sugar, depending on what I eat.

My body actually stops me from eating meat depending on the amount... I just cease to want it anymore. Fruit... I can eat like 6 nectarines, then a mango, then some blueberries, and then make some guacamole with tomatoes... I don't know if it's because of the lack of nutrition compared to the meat? Or maybe my body just likes the sugar? I actually am not sure.

The banana ice cream thing is a good suggestion, and would let me continue to eat it and not have to worry about eating some agave + guar gum concoction. I'll try to do it. I have a Vitamix as well as the masticating juicer. Thanks for the suggestion.

[surfsteve]

Go for it. I ate a lot of it when I first started making it and then got tired of it. It got me off ice cream though. At first it's really good but then after a while you realize it's healthy and not ice cream... Makes me laugh when I think about it. Watermelon and cherries are in season right now and I been eating tons of them. Going to really miss the watermelon. I got two huge ones left in my refrigerator that I bought when it was on sale. It was nice to walk by it after the price has doubled and think about them. I feel like I got away with something as if they were some kind of prize!