Science of Tooth Yellowing and Decay

[a_real_man]

Does anyone know the science behind tooth decay and tooth yellowing? I'm curious to know:

1. What is the chemical/mechanical process that causes teeth to develop cavities? Is it something that bacteria are releasing when digesting certain foods which erodes the tooth? If so, which foods? Or is it something else?

2. same question concerning yellowing of teeth, which seems to be an independent process.

3. how to battle tooth decay and tooth yellowing the paleo way? Avoid certain foods, eat more of others, brush with some specific substance, don't brush with other specific substances...?

[surfsteve]

The acid from bacteria is what causes teeth to rot. Once tarter starts to form the bacteria underneath it are free to produce all the acid they want because they are protected.

for my teeth I use a 50% saturated solution of borax and water. I just put as much borax as will dissolve leaving some on the bottom in a huge bottle, fill my waterpick up half way with it and fill it the rest of the way with warm water. Sometimes I brush my teeth with clay.

Tooth decay has a lot to do with diet.

[TylerDurden]

I rarely bother to brush my teeth and my teeth are now very hard and set into their sockets. Prior to going rawpalaeo, they were so loose they were almost on the verge of falling off, so that I was forced to eat very soft foods around that time, or lose my teeth. I do use chemical toothpaste and just  swill it around in my mouth, but usually only prior to some important social engagement.

[surfsteve]

My teeth feel much better since going raw but sometimes my gums still get sore when I eat a lot of jerky. How long did it take for your teeth to tighten up after going raw?

[TylerDurden]

My teeth feel much better since going raw but sometimes my gums still get sore when I eat a lot of jerky. How long did it take for your teeth to tighten up after going raw?

My teeth became rock-hard 4 months after cutting out all raw dairy from my RVAF diet.

[Projectile Vomit]

Anyone have ideas for dissolving tartar and plaque?

[Iguana]

Pages 178-179 of INSTINCTOTHERAPY - Instinctive Raw Paleolithic Nutrition by GCB which I can still send on pdf to interested members who ask me and provide me their e-mail address.

I always thought that tooth decay was due to the onslaught of germs.
o Apparently, things are a bit more complex than that. Some forty different kinds of bacteria cleave to tooth surfaces as a highly stable sticky layer that consists of a binding substance, known as intergerminal matrix, i.e. dental plaque.
_So, those bacteria attack our enamel, don’t they?
o That was the initial thinking. Unfortunately, although dental plaque is always there (it even stands up to brushing and toothpastes), it turns out that sometimes holes hollow out and sometimes don’t. It’s anybody’s guess why.
_I suppose you have some idea.
o Doctors overlook the presence of abnormal molecules in body tissues, which is why it makes sense to investigate that field.
For one thing, why is it that tooth surface is always covered by germs: is it unrelenting effort by the germ world to destroy our teeth and gums? Nature lying in wait for the slightest deficiency of ours to strike us off the biosphere, that is well in line with Pasteur’s theory!
_Goodness, you’ve got your teeth into Pasteur!
o Oh no! How could I not have a soft spot for him since he discovered germs: on instinctotherapy, germs are popular.
_Sounds as clear as dishwater.
o If dental plaque is a constant factor, isn’t that a good reason for thinking that the body needs it for some specific purpose, not to ruin our teeth but to protect them from corrosive molecules contributed by foods?
_What then, is tooth decay due to?
o Teeth are living structures, fed by the blood that flows through root canals (nerve and vessels). However, there are no vessels in the dentin tubules, which is the white substance that forms the basis of the tooth. The nutrient molecules percolate from the center outwards.
Now, suppose the blood is ferrying partly metabolized abnormal molecules, for instance Maillard’s molecules from food or fragments of partly digested protein. Even should the amount of those alien molecules remain very low, in time they will fix into the dentin, rather like dirt in a filter. They will build up in pet areas where it is trickiest for them to get to, and possibly all the way into the enamel (which incorporates a number of complex organic molecules they will presumably couple with).
_I understand your idea. The bacteria from dental plaque could then attack the molecules deposited in the tooth, and mistake them for the molecules to be cleared that originate from the outside.
o Yes, that’s the idea I’m putting forward. Tooth decay may be considered an auto-immune disease, in the broad sense of the term. The bacteria normally used by our immune system to destroy the dangerous molecules present in our oral cavity would attack our own dental tissues congested with similar molecules brought by the blood following our dietary mistakes.
In usual auto-immune diseases, white blood cells turn against one’s own cells. In this particular case, the actual bacteria are deflected from their normal function by the presence of abnormal molecules in the dentin.
_I always thought that our immune system aimed at destroying germs, but it sounds as though you are saying that it uses them.
o Sorry, I was forgetting. We haven’t yet touched on that subject.

[surfsteve]

Anyone have ideas for dissolving tartar and plaque?

As someone who had a lot of plaque and doesn't I wish I could remember what specifically stopped it from forming. It was right around the time I started taking vitamin K but I've stopped taking it a long time ago and plaque hasn't returned. I took the menatetrenone 15000 mcg huge dose tablets if that's any help! I bought a dental pick off ebay and I used to pull tons of tartar off but only find a very small piece every year or so. Dental plaque is very serious. Plaque on your teeth is a sign of plaque in your arteries! Vitamin d works in conjunction with vitamin K. I read that It's ok to take k without d but not the other way around. Together they remove calcium from where it doesn't belong and deposit it where it does. Sunshine and cod liver oil are the best sources of vitamin D. Now that I think about it I only recently stopped taking cod liver oil and stopped the K quite some time before that. Maybe I still have tons of it stored up in my body. I honestly don't know. Could even be totally unrelated.

My teeth used to have yellow and brown stains too. I suspected it was from iodine or coffee. Stopped taking both (coffee only recently). The borax brightened them up pretty well. I read it's very bad for you but I think that's all bunk. Best I could tell it was because boron is supposed to be toxic. News flash it's not! (Yeah anything is toxic if you take to much of it.) Boron is deficient in over 90% of us and is needed to build strong bones and teeth. You wont get too much from brushing your teeth with it. It's a hundred times less toxic than fluoride and they put that in every single brand of tooth paste I've ever seen. I swear what's wrong with the people in charge these days?

[surfsteve]

Oh yeah. I remember when I first started taking vitamin K how smooth it made my teeth feel. Be sure and get 15mg tablets or capsules if you want to give it a try. The 200mcg ones they sell do nothing.

[surfsteve]

Was thinking again. ( Could become dangerous.) I stopped taking vitamin K (and all supplements) about the time I started taking raw organ meats (nearly two years ago). Maybe that could have something to do with tartar not reoccurring?

[a_real_man]

Pages 178-179 of INSTINCTOTHERAPY - Instinctive Raw Paleolithic Nutrition by GCB which I can still send on pdf to interested members who ask me and provide me their e-mail address.

Hot dang. That's the kind of detail I'm looking for. PM'ed - please do send. I find it fascinating how little we understand the basic things in life.

[Gatsuri]

Does anyone know the science behind tooth decay and tooth yellowing? I'm curious to know:

1. What is the chemical/mechanical process that causes teeth to develop cavities? Is it something that bacteria are releasing when digesting certain foods which erodes the tooth? If so, which foods? Or is it something else?

2. same question concerning yellowing of teeth, which seems to be an independent process.

3. how to battle tooth decay and tooth yellowing the paleo way? Avoid certain foods, eat more of others, brush with some specific substance, don't brush with other specific substances...?

I don't think it's possible to get cavities if you are getting all the nutrients in, so I would say any teeth related issues are due to nutritional deficiencies... I just brush my teeth now with the brush no toothpaste.

[Gatsuri]

I don't think it's possible to get cavities if you are getting all the nutrients in, so I would say any teeth related issues are due to nutritional deficiencies... I just brush my teeth now with the brush no toothpaste.

I have experimented multiple months brushing teeth without toothpaste, if the diet has enough nutrients no cavities are to be expected but the drawback to using no toothpaste is more tartar buildup. Which means more frequent dental visits to remove the tartar. So I would opt for flossing 1x a day and brushing 2x a day with a little bit (don't need much) of a low fluoride/ no fluoride toothpaste. The small amount of foaming of the toothpaste really helps break up that plaque. I also have found great benefits to oral health by using raw honey.

[norawnofun]

I read of some people which do not brush their teeth but just use floss, and it works very well for them. But they eat raw carnivore. And tartar can be removed by squishing coconut oil in the morning, that worked very well, at least for me. However, if tartar is building up I recommend first looking into your diet, rather than masking it away with coconut oil. Having tartar gives you at least a sign that something is going on, or that you are eating the wrong type of foods.

[van]

tartar is a hardened build-up of plaque which is a biofilm laden with mostly sugar and carb eating bacteria and their acidic excrement.   We each have a better or worse propensity for certain types of oral bacteria, and the ability to deal with them or not with our immune bodies.   A carnivore diet, truly devoid of carbs will off very little food for most plaque thus tartar-forming bacteria.  Saliva amounts and it's ph, stomach acids and enzymes also play a role in keeping the mouth clean.   Detox is low on the list.  Milk sugar, lactose can also support plaque-forming bacteria, as well as honey or any sugar or carb. 

[PaganGoy]

@van
most of the things you are describing are detox.

[sabertooth]

I don't brush and have not brushed for years...even before paleo I had learned how to naturally clean my mouth out by swishing saliva in conjunction with the use of skillful tongue dexterity...haven't had any cavities since I was a teenager when I was foolishly brushing with flouride toothpaste daily.

Such natural forms of oral hygiene can be fairly effective in cleaning the teeth and keeping corrosive plaques from eating away the enamel, even for people who eat those decay promoting foods.

Ive taken notice that the teeth are alive, and not just dead bone used to pulverize and masticate foodstuff. Ive had weak spots in tooth enamel heal overtime. I went to a dentist when I was 16 and was told I had a small cavity that needed filling, it hurt sometimes but usually wasn't very bothersome, so I let it go...and quit going to the dentist for years. I had some pain from time to time around a couple of old fillings (from when I was a child)and was then seen by a dentist for a check up at age 25.... he said I had good teeth, a couple of weak spots but no active cavities.

 I noticed around the 2nd year of Raw paleo that the two molars with fillings, which would sometime hurt when cold or if I bit something too hard, had quit hurting altogether and were no longer sensitive to cold. Something interesting would happen on occasion, it would often occur after a short fast, or sometimes out of the blue, my teeth would get a gritty coating, I could feel on the tops of my molars, like sand paper, and the gum lines would become encrusted with a mineral plaque. I never brushed it off or tried to floss and would just continue to practice natural hygiene, sometimes chewing on connective tissue for a while... and eventually the mineral gritt layer would smooth away leaving my teeth feeling very clean and strong.

The roots of the teeth are alive and when awoken into action by vigorous chewing of raw flesh, they are stimulated to increase in their vitality, leading to the excreting of more dentin promoting growth factors that remineralise the teeth from the inside out, while the chewing of the flesh polishes the surface enamel.

Perhaps if not interfered with by constant brushing, and consuming of corrosive bacteria feeding foods, or chewing on harsh abrasive foods, the whole oral cavity can maintain itself quite well, as it undergoes the periodic cycles rejuvenation...much in the same way all the other bones in the body continue to repair themselves through the life cycle.   

 

[PaganGoy]

@norawnofun
Not always, for example I used to get tartar whenever eating liver which is high in minerals that attract heavy metal detox.
You once said you got tartar from drinking mineral water, I think there are levels of detox when it comes to oral health.
Sugar is one cause, AGES and cooked food big ones etc etc

[van]

@van
most of the things you are describing are detox.

I understand why You would say that about your experience.

[PaganGoy]

AV makes far more sense to me that bacteria is a progress or more like a beneficial reaction to detoxification rather than a cause of buildup, an attempt of defense against erosion of the teeth due to detox even.


On a side note I do not really get tartar on my diet.

[van]

I get it, everything he says you believe.   But maybe you'll  dig a little deeper,,    there is nothing protective about acid producing plaque and the noxious bacteria that spawn into the gums and create pockets, destroy bone, and eventually cause tooth  loss, let alone decay/carries. 

[sabertooth]

I dont think AV should be viewed as a tooth Guru?? Does anyone know if Rumors true about him having false teeth?? and to what extent was his oral health compromised by his own dietary practices??

[PaganGoy]

@sabertooth
He lost teeth after radiation then regained most of his oral health after consuming dairy
The same as me minus the radiation part.

@van
Whenever I used to get alot of placque and bad breath collection on the tongue etc it was ALWAYS after waking up from a long nap or in the morning in particular.
All those things you mention can be explained by general detox pretty easily, its not like I am exclusively talking about heavy metals or some crazy shit, its quite reasonable.

[van]

when you sleep or nap your saliva flow ( for many ) is reduced, hence the flushing of accumulating bacteria is reduced dramatically. And the alkaline potential to neutralize acidic bacterial excrement is diminished as well as remineralizing dentin.   Bacteria multiply on average every ten minutes, so you can do the math for several hours.   
    I really don't know what you mean by detox.  Eat a  handful of dates or sticky sugary raw fruit just before retiring for several months and see how healthy your gums and teeth will be then.   Sugar is sugar.  Some people just produce more healthy oral bacteria to counteract the proliference of unhealthy types, and also produce more flushing saliva to rinse away sugars before they can feed bacteria in the mouth.

[sabertooth]

Drinking any dairy whatsoever would cause me a generally funky mouth feeling. Even paleo friendly carbs like from honey would also cause castic mouth conditions. Somehow the proteins and sugars of certain foods alter the mucus membrane and quality of the salivary secretions, so even if you thoroughly clean your mouth before going to sleep, the corrosive bacterial feeding elements in the foods you consume, are being constantly secreted through your own bodily fluids.

Pure carnivory on the other hand doesn't seem to be an issue for me, as it seems the meat and raw fat based diet seems to promote clean non corrosive, healthy bacterial feeding secretions. I very often fall asleep right after eating with a fair amount of connective tissue still stuck in my teeth...sometimes I even fall asleep with a whole wade of connective tissue in my mouth, that I chew for gum...by morning whatever meat is left in between the teeth is usually dissolved enough to easily remove with a morning drink and swish. The mouth fermented meat is fairly fowl, and yet those meat bacterial do not seem to be corrosive to my tooth enamel...and perhaps such flesh loving bacteria act to protect the teeth from other more mineral corroding strains of microbes?