Wild Game versus Grass-Fed versus Grain-Fed

[TylerDurden]

Talking about insects...:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-5111959/Finnish-bakery-sells-insect-bread-good-source-protein.html

I presume that the above could be made from raw, dried insects?

[dariorpl]

To me it seems like humans aren't meant to eat insects or worms unless in a starvation situation. I did listen to the podcast and it's interesting what's mentioned about marine arthropods like crabs, lobsters and shrimp. I was surprised to hear that some people are willing to pay more for the same weight of insects than beef.

[Haai]

To me it seems like humans aren't meant to eat insects or worms unless in a starvation situation.

I agree.
The ideal prey for humans imo are megafauna, which is likely why the vast majority of the world's megafauna species are now extinct. Megafauna provide ample fat. The majority of today's wild mammals are relatively small and lean and would likely lead quickly to rabbit starvation.

[dair]

I don't believe in an ideal type of food. Are you living in a tropical jungle? On the coast? In the Alps? Next to a river? Near the Arctic? On the Equator? I have travelled quite a lot in my life, and seen a lot of local markets, mostly in Asia, Africa, Nepal, Sri Lanka... And one thing I have noticed: most warm/tropical/sub-tropical countries do still eat grubs, not as a staple, but it is still there. In the colder climates you don't go for insects, well, there aren't that many around. Walk through a forest in Northern/central Europe, and you don't hear that many sounds, but in the tropics, it's such a racket... there are simply so much more things out there...
It's true that the colder the climate, the more the focus is on big animals. In the warmer places they eat also bats, birds, etc... Sure, buffalo is common, and porc is king is many places in Asia. But there is SO more variety in the diet, which I do miss when I am in Europe.
Yes, animal fats are difficult to get in nature. But sometimes there's a bit too much focus on it.
If you eat a grub, you get the whole package. 

[Xisca]

To me it seems like humans aren't meant to eat insects or worms unless in a starvation situation.

There are no insect free fruits with no treatment! And I mean when not doing even ecological care. My fruits have fruit flies.
And bugs do have a lot of fats.
Agree with Dair! I live in subtropical, and when I harvest even only vegs, I take 1 leave or 2 from each "salad" or else I have too much, as I end up sometimes with between 10 and 20 ingredients.

[dariorpl]

It's very different to eat bugs accidentally, than to seek them out and eat them in large quantities as a main staple of your diet.

[Xisca]

It does not mean that is its a starvation food either! 
And if our fruits are "too clean", maybe we can look for some....
They had reproductive problems in an ape center, and solved it by chance, when turning to organic left-over fruits, and the chimps could carry their pregnancy ! They had no bug before this, so not much protein. Good exemple for vegan people who think apes are vegan...

[Xisca]

Staple maybe not, I am 100% against being 100% anything! But you can raise insects better than cows... Same as guinea pigs, this is an argument for those who do not want to eat industrial meat and have difficulties finding good meat that meet their standards. I know some vegetarians that would eat some good meat but no way they go to the shop for ordinary meat.

If I want to eat wild game only, I would be starving. And for organic meat, I needed to buy a freezer. And I do not know if it is grain-fed or not.... We have not enough grass here. Ordinary local cows eat ...green bananas! Full of pesticide including DDT!

So I have just bought frozen beef liver...

[Haai]

I don't believe in an ideal type of food. Are you living in a tropical jungle? On the coast? In the Alps? Next to a river? Near the Arctic? On the Equator? I have travelled quite a lot in my life, and seen a lot of local markets, mostly in Asia, Africa, Nepal, Sri Lanka... And one thing I have noticed: most warm/tropical/sub-tropical countries do still eat grubs, not as a staple, but it is still there. In the colder climates you don't go for insects, well, there aren't that many around. Walk through a forest in Northern/central Europe, and you don't hear that many sounds, but in the tropics, it's such a racket... there are simply so much more things out there...
It's true that the colder the climate, the more the focus is on big animals. In the warmer places they eat also bats, birds, etc... Sure, buffalo is common, and porc is king is many places in Asia. But there is SO more variety in the diet, which I do miss when I am in Europe.
Yes, animal fats are difficult to get in nature. But sometimes there's a bit too much focus on it.
If you eat a grub, you get the whole package. 

Your whole post is talking about present day. Megafauna used to live all over the planet in multiple different climates and habitats. Nowadays there's pretty much only elephants and rhinos, and I suppose hippos. Even those few animals live in various different habitats, from jungle to desert, tropical to subtropical, aquatic and terrestrial. The lack of megafauna today means people need to eat something else, such as insects.
Yes there are lots of insects and grubs in the tropics. But many insects actually aren't that easy to catch. Grubs need to be dug out of the ground or trees/logs need to be broken into to access them. Imo it goes against optimal foraging theory. Ie. hunting insects and grubs burns, relatively speaking, a lot of calories for a small return.

[dariorpl]

Staple maybe not, I am 100% against being 100% anything! But you can raise insects better than cows... Same as guinea pigs, this is an argument for those who do not want to eat industrial meat and have difficulties finding good meat that meet their standards. I know some vegetarians that would eat some good meat but no way they go to the shop for ordinary meat.

If I want to eat wild game only, I would be starving. And for organic meat, I needed to buy a freezer. And I do not know if it is grain-fed or not.... We have not enough grass here. Ordinary local cows eat ...green bananas! Full of pesticide including DDT!

So I have just bought frozen beef liver...

I believe you're probably better off eating grain finished muscle meat beef right off the supermarket as a staple of your diet, than eating top quality organically raised insects as a staple of your diet. But I could be wrong.

To me it seems not to be paleo to consume vast amounts of insects, as that can only be achieved through agriculture.

[dariorpl]

Although it might be true what was said, that in the tropical forests, there are plenty of insects and grubs to just pick up under a rock or whatever, and since a tropical forest diet would consist of plenty of fruits, having some protein and fats in the form of insects and grubs could certainly balance it.

[dariorpl]

Megafauna used to live all over the planet in multiple different climates and habitats. Nowadays there's pretty much only elephants and rhinos, and I suppose hippos.

I wonder if these were hunted mainly through hit-and-run ambushes and largely long distance chasing until the animal dropped dead from exhaustion, since fighting them could easily result in many tribe members being killed, especially since weapons back then were very primitive and made out of wood and stone only.

[dariorpl]

Even then, however, being charged by an elephant, rhino or mammoth could be lethal, since they're faster than us and there is little your fellow hunt pack members can do to stop or misdirect one of those beasts which is charging you.

[Xisca]

I think we live in the present time and have to do as all beings on earth, adapt to what there is! Even wolf bears and coyotes forage on human garbage and they have no ethics about it! Coyotes are known to live on 80% diet of some beans I cannot remember the name right now.... not all the time but when they are ripe and there is no available meat. Apart from ideal things, we have to live and eat! If I have to eat grains for example, I just take care to cook them the right way, raw cooking can be sprouting... and I know how to cook my lima beans after sprouting and removing the peel!

Then eating must be sustainable, not only healthy. If you have to import food, then it is not paleo at all!
Local is the most paleo in a realistic way.
And appart from big health reasons, I do not see bad to cook what is not edible raw, or what is difficult to eat raw, like getting all meat around bones!

[dariorpl]

If someone eats insects and grubs for convenience, taste or finances, I certainly have no problem with it. I'm just saying that I don't buy into the idea that it's healthier to eat those than to eat meat.

[dariorpl]

I have a friend who is vegan, mostly starchivore, and his food bill is almost nonexistent. He does it not because it's super cheap, which it is, but because he believes it's healthier for him to do that.

[Qondrar_The_Redeemer]

I have a friend who is vegan, mostly starchivore, and his food bill is almost nonexistent. He does it not because it's super cheap, which it is, but because he believes it's healthier for him to do that.

I eat only raw meat, and I could get by very cheap with just organs and bone marrow. I highly doubt I need muscle, and grass-fed organic organs and bone marrow (for fat) are very cheap. Most marrow bones are actually cheaper than if I went vegan, since they are free. Organ meats aren't that much more expensive than fruit and vegetables (assuming you buy the highest quality). Not to mention I need to eat much less of that than most fruits and vegetables to be satiated. I still spend a relatively decent amount of money on meat, but most of that is just muscle.

If someone eats insects and grubs for convenience, taste or finances, I certainly have no problem with it. I'm just saying that I don't buy into the idea that it's healthier to eat those than to eat meat.

I'm actually curious about the nutritional content of insects compared to say, lamb or beef.

I think we live in the present time and have to do as all beings on earth, adapt to what there is! Even wolf bears and coyotes forage on human garbage and they have no ethics about it! Coyotes are known to live on 80% diet of some beans I cannot remember the name right now.... not all the time but when they are ripe and there is no available meat. Apart from ideal things, we have to live and eat! If I have to eat grains for example, I just take care to cook them the right way, raw cooking can be sprouting... and I know how to cook my lima beans after sprouting and removing the peel!

Then eating must be sustainable, not only healthy. If you have to import food, then it is not paleo at all!
Local is the most paleo in a realistic way.
And appart from big health reasons, I do not see bad to cook what is not edible raw, or what is difficult to eat raw, like getting all meat around bones!

Except for the most part, human garbage is just that, "garbage" food. Too processed, too much sugar, too many ingredients which almost nobody knows anything about, overcooked, artificially created etc... The reason why it tastes good is because it's entire design is based on it tasting good, not on nutritional value and health. Which leads to the generally unhealthy human and domesticated animal population. Even wild game is getting poisoned by these unnatural foods.

Cooking is, eh, well... It tastes horrible to me after eating only raw and I can't digest it as well. Salt is also useless to me now. If you truly want to use every part of your food, and find that cooking aids that, then by all means... Although I am doubtful if it can't be eaten raw, that it was meant to be eaten in the first place.