Fermenting foods

[a_real_man]

I've recently been looking into fermentation. It looks really promising, since the health benefits have been documented and it often does not call for cooking.

I had a bunch of questions, for which I'm hoping someone can suggest answers:

1. Is fermentation of food "Paleo"? (Besides High meat)
2. Is fermentation using salt "Paleo"?
3. Is there such a thing as High vegetables/fruit/tubers/etc.? If not, what is it that makes High meat special?
4. Has anyone seen any negative health aspects to fermentation or is it always a healthful choice?

[dair]

I used to ferment a lot before, veggie, or fruits, or a combination, with or without herbs. I never use salt: It goes quicker, but then also, you need to consume it quicker.
The trick is never use too much, and never together with sugar in the same meal. It definitely helps my digestion. And somehow, I crave that sour taste from time to time. Think meat and fermented sour cucumbers, fits real well I think.
I make my own kombucha vinegar (actually JUN vinegar, as it is made with honey), and I've been playing with the idea of trying to make JUN with nettles or some other herbs/greens, instead of using green tea... That would be paleo-ish in a way -maybe ? soak the herbs in water (not heated) for some time, add the honey and the scooby and let sit...
I get an energy boost of fermented foods. But if overeaten, they can stress your body. Balance is the key.

[TylerDurden]

I've recently been looking into fermentation. It looks really promising, since the health benefits have been documented and it often does not call for cooking.

I had a bunch of questions, for which I'm hoping someone can suggest answers:

1. Is fermentation of food "Paleo"? (Besides High meat)
2. Is fermentation using salt "Paleo"?
3. Is there such a thing as High vegetables/fruit/tubers/etc.? If not, what is it that makes High meat special?
4. Has anyone seen any negative health aspects to fermentation or is it always a healthful choice?

1=Yes
2=Yes
3=Yes; not sure why high-meat has a superior effect....

4:- Do NOT eat meat which has been stored in a non-aerated environment. Botulinism has occurred among  Eskimoes doing this, on occasion.

[a_real_man]

1=Yes
2=Yes
3=Yes; not sure why high-meat has a superior effect....

4:- Do NOT eat meat which has been stored in a non-aerated environment. Botulinism has occurred among  Eskimoes doing this, on occasion.

Thanks. Can you kindly provide some links?
Regarding #2, I was under the impression that salt was a rare and relatively modern commodity?
Regarding #3, I've never heard of high plants.

[TylerDurden]

No idea re links.

1) HG tribes go in for fermenting meats and plant foods all the time. Plus, there is a theory that humans were mostly scavengers not hunters so would have had more access to aged meats, for example.

2) Again, modern HG tribes use salt all the time. Yet, admittedly, it is mostly only hebrivores that seem to seek out salt deposits. Carnivores have access to natural salts in the blood of animals.

3) High plants=kimchi, sauerkraut, for example.

[a_real_man]

No idea re links.

1) HG tribes go in for fermenting meats and plant foods all the time. Plus, there is a theory that humans were mostly scavengers not hunters so would have had more access to aged meats, for example.

2) Again, modern HG tribes use salt all the time. Yet, admittedly, it is mostly only hebrivores that seem to seek out salt deposits. Carnivores have access to natural salts in the blood of animals.

3) High plants=kimchi, sauerkraut, for example.

Thanks.
Re 2: I guess you can get salt by evaporating sea water and then using it for fermentation... so I guess it could be paleo
Re 3: by high, I meant that they are fermented purely in air. In other words, I mean that meat doesn't rot - it becomes high meat. But plants rot instead of becoming high plants. This is something that I don't understand.

[hereandnow]

1=Yes
2=Yes
3=Yes; not sure why high-meat has a superior effect....

4:- Do NOT eat meat which has been stored in a non-aerated environment. Botulinism has occurred among  Eskimoes doing this, on occasion.

Hello TylerDurden,

Regarding point number 4, would storing meat in a refrigerator qualify as a "non-aerated" environment? Could you suggest the best method of storing meat. I currently get around a weeks meat supply from my butcher and get the pieces vacuum sealed (in plastic packs) and store it in the refrigerator. The meat stays fresh this way but I suppose the meat is not in an aerated environment in those vacuum sealed packs. Would you suggest I stop using this method?

Thank you in advance.

[TylerDurden]

I would eat all vacuum-packed raw meat within 7-10 days max. Any longer, and the unaerated environment creates  a nasty, toxic  taste in the raw meat, which, to me, is a bad sign.

Best way to store raw meat= Store your raw meat carcasses in a room chilled to between 2  to 4 degrees Celsius. It won't freeze, and will very slowly age.

Storing in a fridge with the raw meat exposed to the air is not "unaerated".

In the hot northern Italian summer, I would avoid the fridge for making "high-meat", as it takes so long, and non-RVAFers I know anyway get hysterical over the notion of storing aged, raw meat in the fridge.I would instead, store the raw meat within a plastic container, making sure at least half of the container contained just air, I would then store that container within a much larger empty container, then surround both containers within 2 big plastic bags and then store it all underground(so as to avoid otherwise easy contamination by flies re live maggots infesting the raw meat). I would then air the raw meat for  c.2 minutes once a day, until, after 3-4 days max, it was ready for consumption as "high-meat".

[hereandnow]

I would eat all vacuum-packed raw meat within 7-10 days max. Any longer, and the unaerated environment creates  a nasty, toxic  taste in the raw meat, which, to me, is a bad sign.

Best way to store raw meat= Store your raw meat carcasses in a room chilled to between 2  to 4 degrees Celsius. It won't freeze, and will very slowly age.

Storing in a fridge with the raw meat exposed to the air is not "unaerated".

In the hot northern Italian summer, I would avoid the fridge for making "high-meat", as it takes so long, and non-RVAFers I know anyway get hysterical over the notion of storing aged, raw meat in the fridge.I would instead, store the raw meat within a plastic container, making sure at least half of the container contained just air, I would then store that container within a much larger empty container, then surround both containers within 2 big plastic bags and then store it all underground(so as to avoid otherwise easy contamination by flies re live maggots infesting the raw meat). I would then air the raw meat for  c.2 minutes once a day, until, after 3-4 days max, it was ready for consumption as "high-meat".

Thanks

[AdamDilFRIVA]

I was going to make a separate thread for toxic/harmful foods .. Just so someone reading doesnt confuse the two ..

[dair]

People talk about fermentation as if it would be some sort of art or something... it's become such a trend.
Fermentation happens if you don't use a fridge for instance, or let things age. Or if you don't pasteurise, or deep freeze or freeze dry... We have become obsessed about fermentation just because we are afraid of it! All these evil germs and bacteria that we must exterminate.