aged cheese much better than raw beef

[dair]

And if you are going to eat vegetables, some actually are much easier digested when steamed, like zucchini for instance. Raw vegans eating lots of it get out much less calories than when it it's steamed/cooked, and get a lot of fibres to deal with, because they need to eat more amounts.
I used to eat lots and lots of veggies, I am kind of  sick of them nowadays. Sometimes I crave raw cucumber, and then only the middle part, I discard the skin (well, its actually a fruit)... raw veggies/leaves/herbs/greens really block me up.
Thats why I really miss papaya, it was my staple food everytime I was in the tropics. The ones in the shop cannot compare.

[dair]

And, I have noticed that when I eat raw meat I get a more colour on my face, strange but true. I have also noticed that heavy cooked meat eaters actually have a pale, unhealthy colour on their face.
Concerning cheese: REALLY bad for my skin, get oily skin, or unsmooth skin. But if I eat a lot of animal fat, I don't get that for some reason.
And for me, eating cheese is really hard to control, I tend to eat too much of it, it is really addictive.
I don't get that with meat.

[norawnofun]

White wine has no effect on me. Mead and Jun I never tried, will look into that. I did weeks of experiments and I pinned down the veggies that I can digest. I either steam or boil them. I eat them together with white meats. The more raw veggies are the lesser I can digest them, since they are too hard. And when food is too hard and u got low HCI then u (at least I) can´t break it down. Cucumber is a fruit that is the hardest to digest for me. Papaya seems to be ok, but the softer the better. Cheese and butter I totally cut out, but pasteurized joghurt does wonders. I will soon experiment with different types of magnesium since they have different effects as well. I noticed that coconut water, water kefir but also banana work very well too. I assume its because of their mineral contents, and that´s where the key to success might be.

[ivanrk]

Concerning cheese: REALLY bad for my skin, get oily skin, or unsmooth skin. But if I eat a lot of animal fat, I don't get that for some reason.

What kind of cheese exactly is doing this to you? I have the same skin problems with most milk products especially heated and concentrated and i think most people with digestive problems will have the same experience.

But there is huge difference between different milk products. In my opinion their digestibility is:
aged raw cheese - aged 1,2 or more years - this should be practically predigested by bacteria and very easy to digest even for people with casein allergy
raw unaged cheese - aged less than 6 -12 months - concentrated casein and very difficult to digest for people with casein intolerance
raw milk from A1 cows - better that pasteurised but still have casein and lactose
raw milk from A2 cows or other animals - better that raw A1 casein
raw kefir - not much better than raw milk unless very fermented which i never could achieve with kefir
raw youghurt or clabbered milk - i think if you make it very sour this will be the most easy to digest food - the problem is that when i try to ferment clabbered milk for more that 2-3 days it gets moldy - i tried to add bacteria to raw milk and then let it clabber at 25 o C but still get moldy. There are video on youtube of people making clabbered milk and i see they get separation of casein and whey - some say only after 1 or 2 days - mine is not working. Maybe the temp is too low here or maybe the humidity is too high but i get a lot of mold on the surface of milk

pasteurised milk products - disaster for digestion
Most people buy some raw cheese like brie or roquefort or camembert and they think this is aged cheese - it is not aged it is hard cheese and not so fresh as mozarella but it is not aged cheese. Really aged cheese have sharp taste and is crumby.

[ivanrk]

How is your general digestion except with the gastric/stomach acid? Do things move well and fast? And are you normal weight, underweight or overweight?

I am underweight and constantly hungry.
I tried to isolate the problem with HCL - i tried no protein diet and no fats- it is a disaster for me - i tried only fruits, then only starches like potatoes - i think they are worse than cooked meat. I decided to try fruits because i read about way diet and her claims that sugar moves intestines - but many people especially here in Europe have fructose malabsorption and eating fruits and some veggies is very bad idea - also honey.
Then i tried some raw fish called bacalhao - i think all raw fish is great but not easy to buy here - we have only frozen fish and when you defrost it nothing is left - 80% water and 20% meat. Yesterday i eat raw duck liver - it was disgusting but i eat it frozen - it was foye grass - so fatted liver from grain fed ducks - nothing to do with wild duck liver but this is what we have here.

[jibrael]

I am underweight and constantly hungry.
I tried to isolate the problem with HCL - i tried no protein diet and no fats- it is a disaster for me - i tried only fruits, then only starches like potatoes - i think they are worse than cooked meat. I decided to try fruits because i read about way diet and her claims that sugar moves intestines - but many people especially here in Europe have fructose malabsorption and eating fruits and some veggies is very bad idea - also honey.
Then i tried some raw fish called bacalhao - i think all raw fish is great but not easy to buy here - we have only frozen fish and when you defrost it nothing is left - 80% water and 20% meat. Yesterday i eat raw duck liver - it was disgusting but i eat it frozen - it was foye grass - so fatted liver from grain fed ducks - nothing to do with wild duck liver but this is what we have here.

In which country of Europe are you living?

In general, in most of the Europe you would be able to get the fresh lamb liver/heart/brain/organs. In my area, mostly Muslim Shops are selling fresh lamb meat and organs.

The quality differs. In summer, when lambs are out on the green fields, then the organs have good to acceptable quality. In winter months, quality is bad. Some times, quality also changes from one shop to another.
 
Nevertheless, despite inferior quality, one is able to eat them and they indeed helped me.

Later I found a source from a private shepherd in the nearby hilly area. Quality was much better there as compared to the Muslim shops, although he also fed them with grains in winter, but 100% grasses in summer.

[norawnofun]

Regarding cheese I have made different observations:

Hard aged cheeses are harder on the digestion with low HCI since they are too dense. Parmesan for example is a no-go.

Raw A1 milk and A2 milk- i had tried both A1 and A2 (jersey) and even though the A1 has less fat content (which can be an issue digestion on low HCI), i found the jersey to digest much better which is a bit contradictive, but then again it could be due to the lower or no amount of the BCM7 protein. But there are some people which can digest A1 better than A2 due to lower fat. Also raw goat milk seems to be alkaline, so that can interfere with a inadequate acidic stomach (e.g. alkalosis), which I think I could have due to previous high intake of alkaline foods, hence i can´t digest animal protein well now. Today I had fish with sweet potatoes and baby chard, and the chard interfered with the protein digestion as it´s cellulose and alkaline. You can easily find out what food causes issues to digest when a) you burp it up naturally even after hours of finishing your meal or b) put the finger in and puke it out after some hours of finishing your meal. The food that digested easy shouldn´t be visible in the puke anymore. Whatever is left is an indication that the stomach couldn´t digest properly, hence you cut it out for a while.

Raw kefir - if its too thick it can be hard on the digestion (if you leave it in the fridge with a low amount of milk for like a week it becomes very thick,slimy and super sour). Very difficult to digest for me. The more "rinsing" the better. I don´t understand how you cannot achieve higher fermentation on kefir. Just leave it outside for a couple of days longer (don´t forget to mix regularly otherwise the top will have Mycodermia). Or/and lower the milk amount and put it in the fridge as mentioned above. That ferments it properly.

Clabbered milk - strange that the milk went moldy for you. I did quite some experiments with clabbered milk to get quark, cream and butter and left it out for way longer than 3 days (in the summer with high humidity) and it never got moldy. I put it in a 5 liter glass jar outside and sealed the top. I used raw conventional jersey milk, maybe A1 can get moldy. I don´t know. But pasteurized milk gets moldy when left outside for sure. Ur 100 % that u have pure raw milk?

Pasteurized milk - in yoghurt form works great for me. It always helps food to move. Rest like milk, cheese or cream I wouldn´t recommend.

Being underweight and constantly hungry goes hand in hand. Had the same. I was eating a lot and i lost more and more weight. The problem was overeating. When you do that most of the food passes undigested (on low HCI) to the intestines and the shaq´s there (likely worn down) won´t be able to absorb the nutrients so you won´t gain weight but you develop auto immune disorders like food sensitivities. Furthermore since your body doesn´t get the nutrients it needs you get a constant feeling of being hungry. Try eating smaller portions. That can be very challenging in the beginning since you want to eat more but try and eat half portions. You will gain weight again and your shaqs will have an easier time to digest the foods rather than overloading them with big amounts. I think it´s imperative to heal the intestines first with an AIP diet. Cut out all inflammatory foods which will heal your intestinal shaqs and once healed you gain weight and you can reintroduce the previously troubling foods again.

[dair]

I have had times when feeling constantly hungry and malnourished, despite eating more than usual.
Try to slow down your metabolism, try to find foods that are calming, grounding, nourishing and satisfying, WITHOUT being addictive.
Fruits are probably not a very good idea if you live in Europe.

[dair]

When I am craving cheese, usually I crave fats... Eating other fats usually works.
And: all that salt in cheese... I also notice that once I start to eat salt again, I get more and more used to it, and don't realise how bad it makes me feel.

[norawnofun]

I used to crave cheese like crazy, but now I don´t touch anything else than yoghurt and sometimes milk kefir. I remember when I drank good quality raw cow´s milk my digestion was great. But atm I can´t get it. And I noticed that my body doesn´t want me to eat alkaline foods anymore, when I have meat with salad leaves or herbs, digestion takes very long. Guess it´s because acidic and alkaline foods don´t like each other when HCI is low or when your body wants to heal and produce more HCI again.

[van]

Yes, snack on greens if  you must, and eat meat and fat alone. 

[jibrael]

Clabbered milk - strange that the milk went moldy for you. I did quite some experiments with clabbered milk to get quark, cream and butter and left it out for way longer than 3 days (in the summer with high humidity) and it never got moldy. I put it in a 5 liter glass jar outside and sealed the top. I used raw conventional jersey milk, maybe A1 can get moldy. I don´t know. But pasteurized milk gets moldy when left outside for sure. Ur 100 % that u have pure raw milk?

Pasteurized milk - in yoghurt form works great for me. It always helps food to move. Rest like milk, cheese or cream I wouldn´t recommend.

Once clabbered milk is made, then how long will it last in the refrigerator?
And if fresh cheese is made out of this clabbered milk, then how long will in last in the refrigerator?

Do you feel clabberd milk (from raw milk) to be better than yoghurt from pasteurized milk?

[norawnofun]

I don´t recall the exact amount of days how long clabbered milk lasted in the fridge. But it was several days. I mainly made quark (similar to cottage cheese) and that I ate always quickly. When you put clabbered milk in the fridge then you just slow down further fermentation. I believe it would last 7 days, maybe more. Pasteurized (organic) joghurt is easy on my digestion since its mush and creamy, opposite to quark or cottage cheese which is a bit clumpy. Clabbered milk is sour and can become clumpy too, so with low HCI that needs to break down the bigger milk clumps can be an issue, so I would take it easy unless u put it in the blender to make it creamy. But with clabbered milk i didn´t have too much of a problem. Raw organic grassfed cows milk was the easiest to digest since its liquid, next would be organic pasteurized joghurt (never tried raw joghurt), followed by a little bit of kefir and clabbered milk. Proper cheese I never made so I wouldn´t know.

[dair]

And let's not forget some the bad stuff that can come with dairy:
- autism (problem with casein, found in both dairy and gluten)
- PCOS: polycystic ovary syndrome, much more common than one might think, many women do not know they have it. There has been quite a few studies linking dairy with it.

[dair]

And there is also a strong link between prostate cancer and dairy.

[dair]

Many other studies link dairy with breast cancer.
I don't miss dairy anymore, except maybe for goat cheese. But I also realise, how much it is in the mind, and the surroundings,
this can have an effect on what you think you like/need/crave.
My favorite chocolate 20 years ago was milk chocolate. I truly find that repulsive nowadays (but I am still a chocolate fan).
Also, I heard Asians (in Thailand for instance), think that many westerners smell strong just because of dairy eating.
I also read somewhere that when american indians would eat dairy, the others around them would not like their body smell.

[dair]

It's strange the power of the people around you can have on your own cravings/addictions.
When I started going to Thailand, I completely stopped eating chocolate, wasn't hard at all, it just happened. But then, after many years/trips, I started to hang with these raw vegans, new-ages nuts, who are totally addicted to chocolate, and then, just because it was around, and people around me where craving it, I also started to crave/eat it...

[norawnofun]

I think we strongly need to differentiate between the types of dairy. I believe most of these studies are done on conventional pasteurized or UHT milk, since raw dairy still has such a stigma in the common and medical world. Many ancient cultures, remote area people and tribes, including several centenarian areas eat dairy frequently if not daily. But these people don´t eat conventional, grain fed, A1 breed, pasteurized or UHT milk. They mainly have raw dairy from Sheep, Goat and their cow breeds are mainly A2. I think their bodies have adapted very well to this type of milk and it doesn´t cause issues, instead it´s part of their staple diet. These cultures also eat gluten grains and still they liver long and comparably healthier than many "westerners". I think their genetics play a major role as does their whole environment. I agree about the malicious downsides of gluten, i experienced it myself, but for some reason they don´t have an issue with it. It could be because a) there is less or maybe no? gluten in their grain b) the body just got so used to it due to genetics and c) the staple diet they have might minimizes the damage of gluten.

I know there are people which can´t even tolerate raw A2, maybe because their system got damages a lot by the conventional milk, or their genetics simply doesn´t allow having it, or at this stage the body just doesn´t want it.

[TylerDurden]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/dairy-rivals-label-a2-milk-a-scam/news-story/e9faa2820882876b9372c2478baf3deb?sv=2882281defecc4f9414720dd983bc15b

[norawnofun]

Link can´t be opened. It needs subscription. I know that you are very much against milk because of what you went through, but A1 and A2 breeds are definitely not a scam. I did way too much research about this topic. And needless to say, but rivals always like to discredit the competition (looking at the link text), after all they don´t want to loose business.

[TylerDurden]

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/01/a-tale-of-two-milks/514397/

[norawnofun]

Thanks. But it doesn´t prove anything that A2 Milk is a scam.

[dair]

My problem is that I find any kind of fresh milk disgusting. My instincts tell me it is not a food I want inside of me. I want to gag, just by smelling it. Was offered just milked warm goat milk from happy goats eating only grass, but just could't drink it. But I enjoy raw meat, high meat, live grubs... It's is only if the milk is "processed" and made into a soft cheese that I could eat it.
But strangely, the last times I had raw goat cheese from outdoor animals, I didn't get that kick I used to. Probably because my body has discovered new other stuff that is more satisfying, as I have broaden my food selection, and have become more demanding.
If you don't eat for some time, (and used to eat "conventional" food) , and then you are offered a cracker, then that cracker will be totally amazing and delicious.
If you'd body is starved (not by the amounts of calories, but by all the other nutrients we don't get by eating a conventional/vegan/vegetarian/"poor" diet) then you can enjoy foods that aren't really optimal.

[dair]

Fat is for me the answer to not get dairy cravings, anything from lard, marrow, egg yolks, coconut butter, avocados, and also... raw cocoa butter which I find very satisfying. It also has quite a good percentage of saturated fats (60%), and does not speed up the metabolism like coconut butter. It's not that cheap, but when I look at the prices here in Germany of raw goat dairy, you get more for your money with cacao butter. And you avoid that all that salt in cheese.
And if you need to get more of good bacteria/fermentation, go for dry/aged meat/fish or high meat/organs, or combucha/jun, or stop using a fridge. It will happen by itself, if you are surrounded by good bacteria. People who fear "bacteria" are either paranoid or they need to clean up their system/environment, and the good bacteria will be around you naturally.

[Raulik]

If this is true it goes against all raw meat thing..


I thought it was supposed to be "the easiest thing for us humans to digest"