Article recommending avoiding washing once a day

[TylerDurden]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5629049/A-daily-shower-isnt-necessary-Bathing-day-INCREASE-risk-infections.html

[dariorpl]

If you've been on a healthy raw diet for a while, you can get away with not using soap, or using it only a few times a month. It also depends on where you live and the types of clothes you wear, the climate, how much you'll be sweating, etc. Also, there's a difference between reducing bad BO that other people around you can sense from a distance, to the type they can sense when you're in direct physical contact.

Lemon juice or whole lemons can be used as an alternative to body soap. It's not as effective, and it's too acidic to use on a daily basis, but it does the job. For deodorant in the summer, I use AV's recommendation of sundried lemon peels and pulp, ground into a powder. It works.

My main concern with soap/detergents (most of what is called soap nowadays is actually a detergent which combines many chemicals) is not that they remove the skin oil, that gets replaced pretty quickly. The problem is the toxicity inherent to them.

I've heard Iguana talk of the soapnut/soapberry. Perhaps that could be another alternative.

As far as everyday people who are not so squeamish about chemicals and stuff, and who have much worse BO as a result of a poor diet, the recommendation of only using soap for problem areas on a daily basis, and using it all through the skin on a weekly basis, seems like a good one. Their skin often gets overloaded with fat soluble toxins that water alone won't easily wash away and they can be reabsorbed; and soap can get rid of them.

[sabertooth]

When im not feeling particularly dirty but need to freshen up so not to smell like an Old Ram, I will clean myself with oil, and its been very effective in maintaining good overall skin conditions. I prefer to not bath as often , but because Im a residential electrition who has to go into peoples homes, I have to keep fairly prim and proper and be respectful of my clients prejudice against strong mutton-ous emissions

I will use good oil such as coconut and rub it into the skin then rinse off in the shower with plain water. Recently Ive been experimenting with homemade blends inspired by Biblical Holy Oil, which from historical accounts were infusions of tree resin, olive oil, and various herbs. The oils will bind to dirt and chemicals and rinse away almost as good as soap, and it doesn't dry out and irritate the skin. Even if I have to use some soap to clean construction grease and grime off, oiling up right after helps replenish

Im working with a blend now that contains coconut oil, cacao butter, lanolin, sheep tallow, infused with a little myrrh, frankincense, and Kanabus. I also use the oil when I am going out in the sun to tan, and rub it into reddened sunburned skin. My girlfriend is a massage therapist who also regularly anoints me with the holy oil for deep tissue massage.

Along with the help of some patchouli Zum brand clothes soap  Ive managed to live like a dirty hippy and still pass for a classy hipster

[dariorpl]

That's very interesting sabertooth. Basic soap is a mixture of some fat/oil and lye (sodium hydroxide, AKA caustic soda, a chemical used to unplug drains). I always wondered if the fats alone might do some good, since it's the lye I'm worried about.

[van]

good at least you're rinsing it off in the shower.  Oil on the body left will oxidize and go rancid quickly with huge exposure to oxygen, light, and warmth.  What about simply using a good stiff brush ( I use a boar bristle brush ) in the shower with warm water.    But then again, for the last 8-10 years I collect my urine and use it in the shower. Sorry Tyler,,  along with the brush. 
    On another note, I have a steam shower with a outdoor chair that I sit in.  BEST investment I've ever spent on.    Really cleans out pores, and then follow up with cold shower.   For me, ten times better than sitting in a hot dry sauna. 

[sabertooth]

The Romans would use oil for cleaning.... covering themselves with olive oil and then scraping it off...

I haven't noticed any issues with rancidness, other than when I dont rinse off the oil will get into the cloths and oxidize...but its nothing that dosent come out in the wash. The skin naturally produces oils, and a healthy coating of oil is often necessary for preventing the skin from dehydrating.

There are elements in our own natural oils that promote beneficial micro flora, and when optimally healthy our body produces excretions tailor made to feed bacteria on the skin which produce the precursors to Vitamin D, pheromones, and other such positive stuff, that is in turn reabsorbed and utilized by the Body to promote optimal growth and exfoliation.

The process of cleansing is naturally self regulating for animals in the wild, but it becomes a bit confusing for humans because ideology of cleanliness is godliness, has obfuscated the reality of more down to earth forms of purity.
 
Im not entirely convinced that a little oxidation on the surface level of the skin is a bad thing??? perhaps the oxidation of our own natural oils, combine with probiotic bacterial activity, creates a synergistic effect that promotes healthy exfoliation and rejuvenation. 

I notice when my skin is too dry I burn more easily in the sun, then peal afterward but with a little of my homemade oil mixture I tend tan much easier without pealing. I believe something about the oil protects the skin from burning, allows for more optimal development of melanin, and for better absorption of bacterially produced fat soluble vitals.

[van]

could be, and, anything you put on your skin goes through it into your bloodstream.  I tend to think that ( not including dry skin produced by using soap and hot water ) dry skin can be a sign that exfoliation is missing, hence, a real good dry brushing.   Letting the new skin beneath come to the surface.   Putting creams and oils on dry skin, to me, seems to prevent natural exfoliation and 'traps' dead skin cells from falling off.
    Sabertooth, I'd love to hear what your experiences were with your new carnivore friend.   Did you learn anything new, so to speak? 

[sabertooth]

There are a lot of factors to consider regarding optimal skin conditioning. I do make sure to use food grade oils, and will use a cotton wash rag with water to help exfoliate in the shower. The balance likely is to be found between the extremes....there is on the one hand, composting dead skin cells coated with ones own biological secretions, leading to bacterial synthesis of vitamin D and perhaps a host of other yet to be understood beneficial elements...and on the other hand there are methods involving regular exfoliation of the skins surface, which is another way to similarly stimulate the growth of new healthy skin, and facilitate healthy body excretions from the pores.

Skin generally is a self regulating perpetually regenerating organ.....Idealistically, people who are clean on the inside and optimally nourished, such as the true Raw Purist; will, as animals in nature have generally more pristine skin excretions and thus have much less need to worry either way one chooses to handle the hygiene dichotomy...this hypothetical ideal naturally fresh human specimen, should be more free to decide what best to do more on what is personally pleasing, than what is biologically imperative for other less balanced beings to do in order to maintain skin health. 

An other slightly related point to make is that I regularly receive oil massages and using my home made food grade oil helps lubricate the skin to permit chaffing, while still allowing for enough friction to exfoliate the skin and stimulate new growth, along with the extra whole body benefits of deep tissue work.

    Sabertooth, I'd love to hear what your experiences were with your new carnivore friend.   Did you learn anything new, so to speak? 

Sv3rig stayed with me at my home for about a week last month, and I believe it was a good overall experience for both of us. Its hard to pinpoint exactly what I have learned from the meeting, I have become somewhat set in my ways for so long.... but I will admit he reminds me a lot of where I was a few years ago, when I was still enthusiastically absorbing relevant knowledge from all corners of the world, and attempting to share it with whoever would listen. Thats one of the primary reasons I reached out to help.

He has been following a more Primal AV style diet, and seems to be doing very well with it. He is a few years younger and has only been doing this diet for 2 years and I believe he learned much more from seeing what I do. I showed him the copious amounts of fat, organs, and blood from mature sheep I eat, and he enjoyed sampling everything I had to offer very much, saying it was some of the best tasting meat he has tried. 

[van]

Hi, kinda of what I thought you might say.  Yes, he is young and prone to believe what he thinks.   Like the notion that animals don't drink water, and that we don't absorb water unless it's organic.  Can't imagine how someone could not be aware of animals in the wild going to water holes to risk their life with crocodiles to get water...   Or someone dying from lack of water not being saved by a drink of non organic water.
    I don't use any oils, I think they are rancid minutes from being pressed ect.  Two examples are wheat germ with all it's Vit E will go rancid in the fridge in one week.  same with one-week old flax oil immediately put into fridge after pressing.   Olive oil already has such bitters that you can't tell..    Yes, coconut oil is better having higher sat. fat. but have found that using the 'best' coconut oil I could search on the planet, it truly diminishes circulaton in extremites.  I don't think we're adapted to any oils other than those we can readily suck out of naturally gathered seeds ect.    But that's me.
   thanks for the feed back on your guest.

[dariorpl]

Like the notion that animals don't drink water, and that we don't absorb water unless it's organic.  Can't imagine how someone could not be aware of animals in the wild going to water holes to risk their life with crocodiles to get water...   Or someone dying from lack of water not being saved by a drink of non organic water.

The hervibores mainly do that in the summer when it's hot and they sweat a lot, and throughout the year when much of the plants they've eaten were dry rather than fresh, so they need water to compensate.

The carnivores are there to combat the heat, to drink some water because they only catch prey once a week or less, and also to wait for the herbivores that will inevitably come by.

If you eat lots of dry or partially dehydrated foods, of course you will need to drink plenty of water. If you eat mostly fresh foods, there is little or no need for water most of the time. If you haven't eaten anything in days, then of course you will need to drink water.

The whole idea that we need 8 glasses of water a day, 2 liters a day, or whatever other standard like that is a misnomer. Yes, we need about that much "water", because that's the water content that is included in the fresh foods that we consume daily. If you remove the water from the foods, then yes, you have to add it back in, although it won't be the same. Mostly all fresh foods are 60 to 90% water by content.

Nobody said we don't absorb non organic water, rather what we think is that this water leeches minerals from the body.

[dariorpl]

I notice when my skin is too dry I burn more easily in the sun, then peal afterward but with a little of my homemade oil mixture I tend tan much easier without pealing. I believe something about the oil protects the skin from burning, allows for more optimal development of melanin, and for better absorption of bacterially produced fat soluble vitals.

You're probably right.

AV's formula for sunscreen, tanning and sunburn lotion was a mixture of cream, butter and coconut cream along with a little honey, royal jelly, lime juice and ginger juice.

[political atheist]

in my understanding, the body eliminates loads of toxins during sleep through the skin and the morning shower will wash it off so you wont reabsorb the toxins

im wondering if one does complete body skin brushing first thing in the morning, is showering still needed right after? would the skin brushing remove the toxins without the need to shower?

@van, can you please post a link from where you bought your boar bristle brush?

[sabertooth]

I was a little perplexed in the fact that he seemed to stay well hydrated even without drinking any water. He follows the AV protocol of milk and fresh juices, and during his stay drank about a gallon and a half of milk, from a local farm and a good quantity of fresh juices made from a mixture of fresh citrus and vegetables. So overall it would seem he does get enough fluid through milk and juice....though I still claim that not everyone is as dairy or fructose tolerant as to be able to follow such a protocol long term.

My girlfriend gave him an ashiatsu deep tissue massage and noticed his bones and joints didn't pop or crack like most people, which is typically a good indication of being well hydrated.   

[dariorpl]

Sabertooth, the Primal Diet is low in fructose, except for honey. Juices made from celery, cucumber, and so on, which make up the vast majority of the vegetable juices recommended for the primal diet, contain very little fructose.

In any case, the juices are not made so as to obtain more liquid, but rather to avoid the excessive fiber. Even if you eat nothing but solids, as long as they're fresh, you will obtain sufficient liquid for the body's purposes. Additional water in large quantities is rarely necessary.

[dariorpl]

My girlfriend gave him an ashiatsu deep tissue massage and noticed his bones and joints didn't pop or crack like most people, which is typically a good indication of being well hydrated.

I think this is more likely an indication of good lubrication, which comes from having enough healthy fats.

But I suppose you can look at it both ways, since excessive water consumption actually dehydrates your body. If you want to stay well hydrated, the main method should be to make sure to consume enough healthy fats.

[van]

Sabertooth, the Primal Diet is low in fructose, except for honey. Juices made from celery, cucumber, and so on, which make up the vast majority of the vegetable juices recommended for the primal diet, contain very little fructose
In any case, the juices are not made so as to obtain more liquid, but rather to avoid the excessive fiber. Even if you eat nothing but solids, as long as they're fresh, you will obtain sufficient liquid for the body's purposes. Additional water in large quantities is rarely necessary.

His juice, at least on Utube, contains a fair amount of orange juice, he says to make it tastes better.  Odd to hear that he would do something that adds taste to counteract something that doesn't.  ( his stance on veggies  )

[dariorpl]

His juice, at least on Utube, contains a fair amount of orange juice, he says to make it tastes better.  Odd to hear that he would do something that adds taste to counteract something that doesn't.  ( his stance on veggies  )

AV specifically said not to drink sweet fruit juices in large quantities. His advise was to eat at the most, 1 whole sweet fruit per day (not the juice of a fruit, but the whole fruit), and to only eat it together with plenty of fat to slow the digestion of the sugars. Furthermore, he recommended that most sweet fruits such as bananas, mangos, etc, should be eaten unripe when possible, to reduce the sugar content.

He only advised a small amount of sweet fruit juices for very specific and temporary purposes, and generally not for a daily intake diet plan.

[goodsamaritan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5629049/A-daily-shower-isnt-necessary-Bathing-day-INCREASE-risk-infections.html

I tried this for quite a number of years.

My personal experience past 2 years coming from an infected / infested home is that hell I really needed to clean up my skin with everything I can find.  And medicate my skin with every tech I could find. 

I used special blue light, I used silver sulfadiazine, I used anti bacterial soaps, I used fusidic acid, I used beam ray, I used garlic oil, I used Dr. Bronner's, I used MMS... to get rid of my skin infections.

So in my experience, it depends on my situation, surrounding exposure, my genetics and allergies.

Do what needs to be done in your current situation.

[TylerDurden]

I should make clear that I do not always practice what is written in the pro-palaeo articles I show on RPF.  I myself use soap on the underarms and the groin area, only very rarely washing the rest of my body. The organic soap I can get locally is too small for me so I just use standard soaps. I also use (probably too much) essential oils diluted in cold-pressed olive-oil in the baths. Oh, and I do use soap as well  for when I am unable to remove all the faeces from the other end with toilet-paper.Ideally, if money were no concern, I would instead mostly use this Trust deodorant product which uses herbs etc. to remove the stink from the groin/underarm/feet area, but the product is much smaller than it was so I only use it for when I am hiking in the mountains etc. It's very useful as the smell-cancelling effect lasts c.3 days or so after just 1 application, and it kills the bacteria without ruining the skin in other ways.

[ys]

I'm now full week without shower.  The wife and the office don't appear to suspect anything.  I usually do not go that far but recently I noticed I do not get smelly that much.  One possible explanation is I recently donated blood and suspect there is much less iron in my sweat as before.