Diabetes

[SkinnyDevil]

Does anyone know of any studies on the effects of a raw diet (raw omni, raw paleo, raw vegan, etc.) on type 1 diabetes?

I'm not diabetic, but a friend is.

Remember, type 2 is the diet-related diabetes, while type 1 is generally thought to be hereditary.

[Raw Kyle]

You can probably find some low carb studies but probably not raw. But even if type I is hereditary, if you remove the excess carbs the pancreas will not have to secrete the level of insulin that causes a problem. In other words, whether or not it "cures" it, someone could live asymptomatically on a low or zero carb diet with any type of diabetes.

[Hannibal]

Type II diabetes is practically always curable when low-carb diet is applied
re type I diabetes - only at the beginning of the illness there is a chance to cure it; after a long time the chances are very low
Aajonus has supposedly recovered from type I, but I don't know if it is true
"Diabetes solution" written by dr. Bernstein is comprehensive book about this illness

[goodsamaritan]

The raw vegans made a movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdhBo4pbgE

Visit

[SkinnyDevil]

Kyle - ZERO carb? Is that even possible?

Hannibal - I'll check into that book. Thanx. AJ says he was type 1? I wasn't aware of that.

Goodsamaritan - I've seen the trailer, but aren't all their examples type 2? I'll check it out.

Thanx, guys!

[Hannibal]

Kyle - ZERO carb? Is that even possible?

when you eat only muscle-meats and fat then you are practically on zero-carb

Hannibal - I'll check into that book. Thanx. AJ says he was type 1? I wasn't aware of that.

Yes, he had juvenile diabetes (also called - Insulin-dependent diabetes and of course type I diabetes)
he said it in this inverview, for example

[SkinnyDevil]

THANX!!!

[lex_rooker]

ZERO carb? Is that even possible?

Part of the issue is going to be that no matter what you eat the body will manufacture glucose for those body systems that need it.  My experiments seem to support the contention that between 55% and 60% of all the animal protein I eat is converted to blood glucose.   There is also some indication that when high fat (above 80% fat as calories) is substituted for a portion of the protein, then the Glycerol molecules from the fat triglycerides is converted into blood glucose as well.

I have no way of proving this other than my own experiments.  Testing my own BG every hour for weeks at a time clearly showed a rise in BG after eating a raw meat and fat only meal.  The rise was very correlated to the amount of protein in the meal, but could also be measured when only fat was consumed.

The rise is minor (maybe 10 to 20 points) compared to the rise from the consumption of carbs.  There is also some speculation that if BG can be kept low enough, insulin is not required for its metabolism by those systems requiring it.  Unfortunately, insulin seems to be a top level hormone that is involved in the regulation of many body functions so not sure that if there is absolutely no insulin production at all, that Zero Carb would be completely effective - though it should significantly reduce the total amount of insulin needed.

Hope this helps,

Lex

[Guittarman03]

That's pretty interesting Lex.  So your body takes over 1/2 of your protein and converts to glucose?  I have to ask though, why not just eat some carbs, if you're going to get a blood sugar response anyways?  What's the biological difference between eating some carbs and having carbs synthesized from protein and fat?  Other than the obvious digestive differences.

Our bodies have to have insulin.  It's the fundamental hormone for pretty much all life on the planet, and is key for almost every metabolic process in our bodies, even if in small amounts.  Greater insulin sensitivity means that less insulin is required to achieve the same effect, but no insulin means we die.  Agreed that most of us have too much though.   

[lex_rooker]

I have to ask though, why not just eat some carbs, if you're going to get a blood sugar response anyways?  What's the biological difference between eating some carbs and having carbs synthesized from protein and fat?  Other than the obvious digestive differences.

As long as the carbs are kept to a minimum (50 grams/day or less) there is probably little difference.  If carbs make up a significant part of a meal, one difference that is striking is the BG curve after eating.  When eating carbs, even carbs with a low glycemic index, BG shoots up rather rapidly probablly causing a large insulin response to quickly reduce the level.  When the body must create the glucose from glycerol phosphate or amino acids, the curve is much gentler, the peak far lower, and the duration longer.

My own BG measurements show that carbs will casue a 50 to 100 point rise in BG within the first 15 minutes to 45 minutes (the time depending on the amount and glycemic index of the carb) and it then just as quickly falls, sometimes well below where it started before the meal, indicating to me that insulin was released to rapidly handle the BG spike.  I also often feel lethargic after eating carbs, probably due to the dip in BG after insulin has done its work.

When eating only protein and fat, BG seldom rises more than 10 to 15 points over a 3 to 4 hour period and then slowly declines back to the initial starting point without dipping below it.  It then stays steady for about 20 to 22 hours before dipping a few points just before my daily meal.  This gentle rise and fall of BG over many hours indicates to me that little or no insulin was released to handle the small rise in BG.  There is also no feeling of lethargy after eating and I remain alert and can immediately continue whatever I was working on without fatigue or distraction of hunger.

Some of the more current studies have indicated that hyperinsulinemia (too much insulin), causing insulin resistance, is one of the main causes of our modern degenerative and auto-immune diseases like diabetes, rhumatoid athritis, lupus, and a host of others.   If our goal is to keep insulin low so as to avoid building insulin resistance, I've haven't found a better way than reducing carb intake to a minimum.  I have shredded fingers from hundreds of BG readings to support it.  You'll find much of it in my Journal.

Lex

[Hannibal]

Bernstein suggests cutting down carbs to 30 g per day - he prescribes 6 grams of carbohydrates for breakfast and 12 each for lunch and dinner.

[lex_rooker]

Bernstein suggests cutting down carbs to 30 g per day - he prescribes 6 grams of carbohydrates for breakfast and 12 each for lunch and dinner.

Way to complex for me. I never eat 3 meal per day so now what do I do?  Much easier to have a piece of fruit as a snack sometime during the day and call it good.  No worry about complex formulas and measurments of carbs for each meal, or if I'm eating the right number of meals per day.

Lex 

[Hannibal]

Way to complex for me. I never eat 3 meal per day so now what do I do?  Much easier to have a piece of fruit as a snack sometime during the day and call it good.  No worry about complex formulas and measurments of carbs for each meal, or if I'm eating the right number of meals per day.

But it is for people with diabetes, esp. type I
Berstein lives with juvenile diabetes since he was 12. He developed a system of diabetes management which enabled him to closely manage his blood sugar and reverse his many complications of diabetes.

[SkinnyDevil]

Interesting. I'll pass this info along.

[PaleoPhil]

I recommended Dr. Bernstein's book to relatives with type 1 diabetes who are not willing to try Paleo. It helped them, but Dr. Bernstein does recommend some bad foods like soy, dairy, bran crackers and artificial sweeteners. His diet is hugely better than the insane high-carb diet of the American Diabetes Association, but it is still sub-optimal.

[DameonWolf]

I don't like this word cure being thrown around with dietary treatment. Diabetes can be treated with diet, not cured. If the people were cured they would be able to return to previous patterns and not get sick. This is not the case. A damaged pancreas could most certainly lead to these types of issues. And I don't know a diet in the world that could remove all types of severe toxicity and infection from the hepatic region.

[William]

I don't like "treat", after my experience of the medical system, so how about "in remission"?

[SuperInfinity]

That's pretty interesting Lex.  So your body takes over 1/2 of your protein and converts to glucose?  I have to ask though, why not just eat some carbs, if you're going to get a blood sugar response anyways?  What's the biological difference between eating some carbs and having carbs synthesized from protein and fat?  Other than the obvious digestive differences.

Of course, there is none except the body is stressed out a lot. That's why the "zero carb" idea is such insane bloody nonsense. In a hilarious twist, the "zero carb" idea/term comes a lot from those "zero carb" soft drinks they've been pushing for the past few years.

Maybe by doing it you weigh a little less on more calories, who knows. Why do that crap to your body? It's a prescription for aging if you ask me.

Our bodies have to have insulin.  It's the fundamental hormone for pretty much all life on the planet, and is key for almost every metabolic process in our bodies, even if in small amounts.  Greater insulin sensitivity means that less insulin is required to achieve the same effect, but no insulin means we die.  Agreed that most of us have too much though.   

Excuse me but what exactly do you mean by "most of us"?

On the raw paleo forum, we're I would imagine among the least likely to have it, I certainly don't.

[DameonWolf]

I don't like "treat", after my experience of the medical system, so how about "in remission"?

Sure, as long as it doesn't give the impression that the condition is fixed.

[Guittarman03]

I'm sure it was the softdrink commercials that prompted Lex to go zero carb 

Anyways, if you've done any research on centenarian studies, you will find that one of the very few commonalities between those that live to be 100, is low insulin levels.  And heart cells prefer to use ketone bodies as opposed to glucose for fuel, as they operate more efficiently.  There's all kinds of interesting stuff out there re the differences between insulin and glucagon as metabolic pathways.  Bottom line, reduced insulin levels slow the aging process.

When I say most of us, I mean that most people are at varying stages of insulin resistance.  This does not heal overnight - many of us on this forum came from a lifetime of diets high in carbs and processed food.  I don't know how long it takes to get insulin down to childhood years, I'm sure it varies from person to person.  As a swag I'd say anywhere from a couple months to a couple years.

No intentions of offending your insulin levels tho