Raw dairy fat versus raw dairy protein digestion

[Gatsuri]

Hi,

I was wondering if you guys would have any explanation as to why I digest raw dairy butter without issue but get hard/dry stools with raw cheese and fermented raw milk?
I know AV talks about the possibility of raw cheese giving constipation but it seems some individuals can eat as much as they want without any problems?

 

[PaganGoy]

Try eating less cheese and use honey butter mixture. He usually only recommends a very small 2 inch cube or something at a time.
I would think the fermented milk thing is detox

[Gatsuri]

Yeah I was also thinking maybe detox as fermented raw milk should be in theory extremely easy to digest... Would prefer another symptom though very unpleasant.

[van]

Try eating less cheese and use honey butter mixture. He usually only recommends a very small 2 inch cube or something at a time.
I would think the fermented milk thing is detox
[/quote

Sorry to be so repetitive, but each time I see someone here recommending honey butter combo, I will say again, fat and sugar will glycate ( stick together ) in your veins.   One can read up on it by going to Ron Rosedale's site.   As a treat, no problem, as a food source to be eating regularly, not good.  I don't care how often AV appeased himself with it.

[PaganGoy]

I couldn't find anything about fat/sugar interaction on his website, can you provide a link or seminar?

[PaganGoy]

It looks to me that AGES are mainly a result of enzyme deficient cooked foods unlike unheated honey, raw meat and or raw butter.
Are there any thread discussions on this topic?

First sentence quote from Wikipedia on glycation
"Glycation (sometimes called non-enzymatic glycosylation) is the result of the covalent bonding of a sugar molecule, such as glucose or fructose, to a protein or lipid molecule, without the controlling action of an enzyme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycation

[van]

I couldn't find anything about fat/sugar interaction on his website, can you provide a link or seminar?
[/quot

I couldn't readily find it either. would have to go through quite a bit of his talks to find it. sorry.  but from another angle,, you can research for yourself on this, when fat is eaten with sugar, the sugar shuts off the body's ability to burn the fat for fuel, and thus gets stored, as well as  potentially creating insulin resistance as a resultant.    It is speculated this is why very low fat diets work, very high fat diets work, but when fat is included with carbs, especially to the degree of SAD, that problems occur.   

[TylerDurden]

There are also ALEs-alphalipoxidationend products  where fats oxidised by cooking cause the same inflammation as AGEs.

[PaganGoy]

Interesting well I Personally gain considerable energy with this recipe and in any case am trying to gain weight myself...
Regardless I may try and look into it more later, we learn more everyday.

[van]

On Utube, there is a wealth of emerging Science coming out of the researchers involved in understanding using fat as fuel, insulin and blood sugar relationship, hormonal balance, inflammation,  longevity, keto-adaptation, muscle sparing diets, brain fuel, and the list goes on.  One, though, has to be open to being challenged beyond the idea that AV has produced the Bible to be followed for perfect health.  So much of the benefits one can derive By following his advice is like any diet that gets people off of junk food, one that emphasizes eating raw, and maintaining adequate animal protein sources, not to mention going organic, eating grass fed, getting off of veg oils...

[thehadezb]

I'm also having dry/hard stools drinking clabbered milk. No cheese.

[PaganGoy]

@thehadezb
A third of of the total volume of milk you drink should be cream added in.
You can also mix in eggs as well

[thehadezb]

I just can drink whole milk. I don't have access to raw dairy to add on the milk.

I carry the milk on my water bottle for regular hydration during the day. I think the eggs are going to ferment and worsen the flavor of my milk making it impossible to drink. Will see...

[dariorpl]

Sorry to be so repetitive, but each time I see someone here recommending honey butter combo, I will say again, fat and sugar will glycate ( stick together ) in your veins.   One can read up on it by going to Ron Rosedale's site.   As a treat, no problem, as a food source to be eating regularly, not good.  I don't care how often AV appeased himself with it.

Truly raw honey doesn't act quite like sugar in the body. Also, it's only a tiny bit of honey and a lot of butter - and not as a foodsource, but as a complement to your food, which might be meat or eggs/milk or occasionally fruit.

In any case - about the constipation AV said dry cheese can't be digested, you only have a little bit of it to absorb toxins, unless you mix it with a little honey to make it digestible. And AV didn't really have much to say in terms of preventing chronic constipation, other than your body will learn to digest foods properly eventually. For him it took 30+ years of eating raw before this happened.

[van]

'we' like to think that honey is special and doesn't act like sugar in the body.  Get a blood glucose monitor to test that theory.    He wrote that whenever he traveled butter and honey always accompanied him on the plane. I don't remember the ratio having just a 'tiny' bit of honey, maybe you can easily find the quote..  My guess is that wasn't the only time he consumed it.  For I keep reading from you, honey with this and that.   He loved his honey and butter, and now I guess it's with cheese too, 'as one can't digest dry cheese without it.'

[dariorpl]

'we' like to think that honey is special and doesn't act like sugar in the body.  Get a blood glucose monitor to test that theory.    He wrote that whenever he traveled butter and honey always accompanied him on the plane. I don't remember the ratio having just a 'tiny' bit of honey, maybe you can easily find the quote..  My guess is that wasn't the only time he consumed it.  For I keep reading from you, honey with this and that.   He loved his honey and butter, and now I guess it's with cheese too, 'as one can't digest dry cheese without it.'

I'm pretty sure raw honey makes my blood glucose go down if eaten alone in significant quantities. It's so bad my stomach hurts. I know other people who get the same symptoms.

I can find plenty of records for how much honey people should take according to AV. Amounts were usually measured in teaspoons. Only in very special cases did he recommend large amounts of honey, the maximum being 3/4s of a cup over the course of a day for diabetics. And he called this an enourmous amount.

[dariorpl]

I calculated the total amounts for daily eating from his book The Recipe for Living Without Disease.

Between the frequent juices, milkshakes and honey-butter-egg combo formula, the amounts for recommended honey intake are between 43 and 64 grams (2-3 tablespoons) for smaller people, depending if they have a fruit meal or not (higher honey amount if no fruit), and 100 to 142 grams (5-7 tablespoons) as the maximum for larger people (again depending on if they have a fruit meal during the day or not or not).

From this, you could substract 15-44 grams (1-2 tablespoons) from the total if you're not adding honey to vegetable juices. He did this mainly to preserve the juices for 3 days. And he did begin recommending lowering total juice amount later, especially for ex-vegans.

I suppose you could add a little bit to the honey total if the honey-cheese combination is eaten, but that was a supplement for people with mineral deficiencies, and again it was 7-14 grams of honey (1-2 teaspoons) max. And it would likely replace on of the other honey-including meals, anyway.

[van]

well there you have it, up to seven tablespoons.   And if you're eating any fat during the day you can expect glycation.  Reject the comment or look into the science if curious.

[dariorpl]

That is during the whole day, not in one meal, and only as the maximum for large people. And again, raw honey is not the same as sugar, like I said.

You can probably try this yourself. Get truly raw unheated honey or honeycomb and eat a substantial amount on an empty stomach as a mono-meal, and see what happens. Then calculate how much sugar in is that honey, and another day eat pure white sugar (or with a little water to make it a paste and not so dry), and see what happens. You'll get vastly different results.

[van]

I'm fully aware of the effects of honey.  That is why I'm discussing it, so that Others will not take at face value statements like honey is different than sugar.    It is very easy to Want to use honey all the time.  Glycation ( which it appears you have little interest in, maybe because AV didn't understand or know of it) and the effects of continuously inducing glycated molecules are cumulative, they show up over time, not after eating aone meal experiment. 
    Simply put there is evolving science easily available on the internet that goes beyond AV's  home remedies.  One just needs to look, if they are interested. 

[PaganGoy]

@van
Please provide a link to this because you failed to do it for me last time.

[van]

next time I watch a presentation or read about it I will. 

[ivanrk]

Yeah I was also thinking maybe detox as fermented raw milk should be in theory extremely easy to digest... Would prefer another symptom though very unpleasant.

It is not detox - i cant digest protein in raw milk also - the butter just dont have casein in it so it is different. But raw cheese and raw milk have a lot of casein and it is not easy to break it down with fermenting. You can try 3 years aged cheese like parmiggiano, very old gouda or aged cheddar or maybe digestive enzyme for casein or gluten - casein is similar to gluten. When the cheese is crumby the casein is degraded.

[ivanrk]

well there you have it, up to seven tablespoons.   And if you're eating any fat during the day you can expect glycation.  Reject the comment or look into the science if curious.

Are you sure glycation happens with raw foods? I think this happens when you combine fats and sugar and heat them enough - so it is completely possible that some people can combine honey and raw honey or raw milk and this actually helps them - i read such experiences in this forum but i have not tried it - i cant imagine eating cheese and honey.