Is aged and/or high meat essential for weight maintenance for the underweight?

[Grey-Cup]

This excerpt attached from a book entitled "Enzyme Nutrition" makes me wonder if the challenges I have maintaining weight while eating raw would be addressed only if I consume aged and or aged/high meat. In a previous thread I indicated some histamine like reactions I am having with aged meats.

In this thread, I am keen to explore the idea that the consumption of "pre-digested" meat via aging may reduce the burden on the person eating to use his own enzymes/energy to assimilate the food. In people who have a hard time gaining weight, this could be of benefit. I am merely speculating here.

I gained 15lbs eating a cook zero carb diet, which was generally good weight, mostly muscle but some fat too. When I switched to raw for further health optimization, I lost the 15lbs I gained over a period of a few months. I feel better in terms of my chronic health issues I am managing, but my strength is down (around 10% in the gym) and I would like to be a few pounds heavier. My BMI now sits around 20.5.

So, with reference to the dogs in this excerpt, who lose weight on fresh meat but are able to purportedly gain weight on aged/high meat, do you think it applies to humans equally? I am reluctant to even contemplate high meat until I can digest long aged meat without issue. My next question would be do you think the benefits largely come from the "aged" component (the enzymes in the meat breaking down the tissue) and sparing the human body that work, as opposed to the biome impacts of fermented (high) meat?

[van]

Years ago I read a small book by a ninety year old Italian woman who had raised dogs raw most of her life.   She was emphatic that frozen meat for dogs was very bad.  that the best was to preserve and or feed was to bury it. 
    the author may have simply missed the idea that the fish that were frozen were simply that:  Frozen.   And in addition, not aged.
   But do keep us informed as to what you learn for yourself.  Most of my meat, since bought in bulk fresh stays in the fridge up to a month before it all gets eaten.

[Grey-Cup]

I shall keep this thread posted, and hope that others with experience may chime in with their thoughts as well! Thanks Van.

[norawnofun]

@van How do you manage to keep your meat fresh for a month in just a fridge?

Personally I have big problems gaining weight, it´s almost impossible. When I experimented with a lot of fruits and plant foods, including some meats it seemed that I gained more weight eating smaller portions in contrast to bigger ones. When things were really bad some years ago and I ate really BIG portions I became thinner and thinner, which was a paradox to me. I think it vastly depends on your gut biome, the functionality of the villi, your intestinal wall and how well the nutrients are absorbed there. If you have a low bacterial count then chances are that you won´t gain any weight, especially if you overeat. If you eat smaller portions the body is able to use them better, hence you might gain weight.

I think the main problem lies in your head. When you want to eat more but you should stop. After all food should be a pleasure, not be something to constantly restrict, even though it could be more beneficial for ones current situation. I currently ordered probiotics and at the same time I am doing a ground beef high meat batch. I want to battle this issue in 2 ways. I also think the softer any food is, the lesser energy is used for digestion. I ate high meat several times and it usually aided digestion, but I never had it ground, which I think would use the least energy to digest. I also had aged beef (around 4 weeks) and its the tastiest thing ever, but digestion was hard since the meat itself is tough. So I think once you have enough bacteria in your gut, only then you might be able to gain weight properly. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I might be able to share my experience.

[Grey-Cup]

@norawnofun thanks for your insights. Please do share your experiences in a few weeks. I will also update mine as I include larger amounts of aged meats.

I agree with you that food should be a pleasure. What I like about raw zc is the mindset is pure zen. Very simple, very quick, no thinking. I rotate the same few meals and eschew variety.

I had biome issues prior to ZC and my digestion is great on ZC but dont know how to characterize my biome today. And I dont believe much in sequencing tests as I think they are noisy data.

I agree aged meat is tasty. Mine has been tender thus far. I avoid ground as early ZC physician proponents suggested it was hard on body in that it assimilated to quickly and not natural - like the vegan equivalent of a smoothie. Our ancestors would not have had ground meat. I find discomfort when I eat it personally.

[van]

@van How do you manage to keep your meat fresh for a month in just a fridge?

Personally I have big problems gaining weight, it´s almost impossible. When I experimented with a lot of fruits and plant foods, including some meats it seemed that I gained more weight eating smaller portions in contrast to bigger ones. When things were really bad some years ago and I ate really BIG portions I became thinner and thinner, which was a paradox to me. I think it vastly depends on your gut biome, the functionality of the villi, your intestinal wall and how well the nutrients are absorbed there. If you have a low bacterial count then chances are that you won´t gain any weight, especially if you overeat. If you eat smaller portions the body is able to use them better, hence you might gain weight.

I think the main problem lies in your head. When you want to eat more but you should stop. After all food should be a pleasure, not be something to constantly restrict, even though it could be more beneficial for ones current situation. I currently ordered probiotics and at the same time I am doing a ground beef high meat batch. I want to battle this issue in 2 ways. I also think the softer any food is, the lesser energy is used for digestion. I ate high meat several times and it usually aided digestion, but I never had it ground, which I think would use the least energy to digest. I also had aged beef (around 4 weeks) and its the tastiest thing ever, but digestion was hard since the meat itself is tough. So I think once you have enough bacteria in your gut, only then you might be able to gain weight properly. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I might be able to share my experience.

  I hang or layout large chunks on racks.  When Moldy I spray with vinegar, and scrub off mold before eating. Some eat the mold, personally, I have no clue as to what mold it is, where it came from etc. so I don't mess with it  If I lived in a dry climate where there wasn't a lot of air and soil borne fungi I wouldn't be so concerned.
   I too avoid ground meat. It's not that it abnormally gets absorbed, you just have no control over what went into it, how clean the grinder was ect.   Grind your own.  Better yet, get into really sharp knives and wetstones, and eat your meat off a cutting board slicing razor thin pieces of meat and fat.  This really opens up the taste and the appeal in the mouth. 

[Grey-Cup]

Hey Van,

I actually was grinding my own meat for that very reason. I still found ground meat sat heavy in my stomach. I eat as you describe now in slices of a block!

[TylerDurden]

Personally, I love eating the mould on high-meat, and I live in a wet , coldish climate.

[Grey-Cup]

Tyler what color is the mold you eat? I thought there were risks with eating mold.

[TylerDurden]

Err, white or grey.I never once had a problem with eating such mould. Indeed, I got the impression that such mould was essential to my health, in the long-term.

[Grey-Cup]

I wonder how the mold could be beneficial. Outside of specifically cultured molds that don't cause issues like the spores that are not mycotoxins used in some cheeses like gorgonzola, I'm not quite there on being comfortable that the mold that develops on high meat I curate would not be systemically harmful in someway as most molds are.

I can see the beneficial bacteria in the slime of the high meat being helpful, and obviously the tenderized meat itself.