FMT - Fecal Microbiota Transplantation - possible key to all sicknesses?

[norawnofun]

I have already heard of this but I never quite looked into it. Until recently when I started experimenting with probiotics/bacterial strains to heal my IBS, Crohns and Food sensitivities, low HCI and other digestive issues. And the more I look into this, the more fascinating this subject has become. This method seems to have a big success rate when it comes to healing C. difficile, Crohns, Inflammatory bowel disease, Ulcerative Colitis, Auto immune disorders such as Autism, then Multiple Sklerosis, Alzheimers, Asthma, Food sensitivities, and possibly food allergies such as a peanut allergy after this trial will finish in 2019 (https://snacksafely.com/2018/11/can-fecal-transplant-cure-peanut-allergy-phase-i-trial-set-to-begin/). The treatment is mainly done in liquid form via colonoscopy and enema, or pills that contain dried fecal matter. Apparently it has a big success rate of around 80-90 Percent and healing can sometimes occur extremely fast within 1-3 days or weeks. Sometimes it needs to be done more often. I strongly suggest watching these videos to get the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Awn3haOpfcI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9bYKd_Ffgc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcM9dE9lQxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baJqlQVK-9E (didn´t watch this one fully but could be interesting)


For the ppl that don´t know it, it´s very simple and can be done at home. This is a tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEMnRC22oOs that shows one way. But it´s simple. You take fecal matter from a healthy person, either mix that with water in a container, strain and then insert via enema, or you put the crap in a mixer with water and a possible saline solution, strain and insert via enema, or you get the pill from a donor bank such as http://www.asiafmtcenter.com/ or http://openbiome.org/ and do it with your practitioner. For the UK it should be https://taymount.com/faecal-microbiota-transplantation-fmt This video shows roughly the process how Openbiome is getting the bacterial strains into their pills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZxRp-f3ElY

The more interesting part for me would be regarding the donor. You should only do it with feces of somebody that you know is healthy, because you will implant these bacteria into your digestive tract. But what does healthy mean exactly. I read that when you would get the feces of somebody obese, you might end up obese as well. Which is very interesting. Because you could theoretically get the bacteria you want to digest any kind of foods. I wonder if a celiac would get feces from a tested non-gluten intolerant person, if this new gut biome would change the body in such a profound way that gluten can be indigested. But it could possibly also have negative side effects, if you implant feces from a vegan, and you are a carnivore, would your body have issues digesting meat as a consequence? And let´s say you would obtain feces from a HG tribe, somebody that has an immaculate track record of no disease, eats an ideal raw diet, after implanting, would you then have issues digesting foods that the tribesperson never ate? Such as greens, carrots or nuts, or anything that is not a tribal food source and never has been. Or if people such as Mikaela and Jordan Peterson, which only eat cooked beef, water and salt and get huge issues when they eat anything except that, if they could start eating 'normal' again if they get the feces from a healthy 'normal' eating donor?

Or imagine you have huge problems with HCI, underfunctioning thyroid, and you insert feces of somebody that is able to eat glass or metal, which means these people must have extremely strong bacteria and HCI to digest this materia, would you then also be able to do this as well, or at least digest very hard foods (maybe bones)?

Then there would be the psychological aspect. Would you for some reason also get some behaviours of that donor? Or how will that new bacteria react to your own bacteria. I assume it will become more dominant and try to kill your own to make your body stronger. After all, gut bacteria controls the whole body and surely to some excent your mind, mood, stability and so forth. And lastly would it be possible to continously change your bacteria by adding feces from different donors depending on your desired results? This is a fascinating subject with so many question marks, but yet so many possibilities. Has anybody here ever tried a FMT?

[van]

they are only going to take hold and grow if you give then what the donor was eating, at least in terms of percentages of carbs, fats, and protein, especially milk products containing lactose and other prebiotics.     For instance, I THINK, you could implant a carb eater's poop in me and nothing much would happen except the look on my face while it was being done.   But since you do include dairy, you might take a trip to the Alps and find some really healthy specimen and see if you could entertain them with the thought. 
   Funny story,  The guy who I got my probiotics from, We used to joke, although we both were serious, about going to Africa and collecting Masai tribe poop, and then selecting the healthy strains ( done by some sort of spinning tech. ) and marketing it.  I guess I was ahead of my time, cause that was about 20 years ago. 
   Do let us know what results you obtain from this or your implant experiments.

[norawnofun]

Yes, that was another thing that I didn´t mention. If you have them you need to feed them. lol that look had me  And yes, I was thinking who, if I were to do that, could become a donor. There is a very healthy nutritionist I know, but the problem is that she´s a vegetarian, and her brain is so messy and slow that I think I´ll opt out. Alps would be one place I thought of but I´ll first experiment more with probiotics. And speaking of which, I did your suggestion today. Turns out that my oven light had a good temperature of 36C, cultured the strains in whey for a day, and held it for roughly 2 hours. I had a slight emotional reaction while holding and changing positions. Had a huge meal with inulin at the end and when I lied down my stomach was doing lots of noises and movements, I felt very relaxed and had some cognitive sensation going on. So the implant definitely had some effect. Will overdose orally tomorrow and see how I can enhance that. So it makes sense that fecal transplants work, if only 16 strains can be beneficial, what can possibly hundreds or thousands of fecal matter achieve.

[MaximilianKohler]

they are only going to take hold and grow if you give then what the donor was eating. For instance, I THINK, you could implant a carb eater's poop in me and nothing much would happen except the look on my face while it was being done.   

This is not correct.

I've done FMTs now with 9 different donors. The major issue is finding anyone healthy enough. They seem to be less than 0.5% of the population.

Feel free to post any info from our PMs. I would recommend these links:

https://old.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/index

https://old.reddit.com/r/humanmicrobiome/search?q=flair%3A%27FMT%27&sort=new&restrict_sr=on

https://old.reddit.com/r/fecaltransplant/

https://old.reddit.com/r/FMTClinics/

[van]

to further clarify.  I have eaten zero carb for some time.  Most donors are not zero carb eaters, and have an abundance of bacteria specifically eating simple sugars or non broken down carbs of all sorts including fibrous veggies and fruits.  These bacteria need sugars and carbs and fibers to continue multiplying.   Without, they perish.      Yes, the specific bacteria that they may have that digest their fats and proteins will transfer, but, why should I assume they are any better than the ones I've cultivated?

[MaximilianKohler]

There are citations in the wiki I posted, but essentially it seems you're over-appreciating the impact your diet will have.

Diet generally only changes the percentages of gut microbes temporarily. Though there can be some generational losses from long term poor diet.

Most of our microbiome is inherited/developed in the first 2 years of life. There is huge variation from person to person. There is no telling whether your gut microbes, either generally or for digesting 'x' foods, are better than someone else's. We have some ways of screening for FMT donors that may be able to give some idea though.

FMT can transfer microbes that give a person the ability to digest certain foods, rather than "needing to eat certain foods to obtain certain microbes". FMT is extremely powerful and fundamentally changed the gut microbiome. Diet in comparison will simply change which current microbes thrive and what metabolites are created.

[van]

your last sentence sums up my point.    "healthy' gut microbes from a carb eating person will have little effect or value for someone eating zero carb.    Again, I'd be open for a fecal transplant from a healthy Masai or Inuit  from 80 years ago.    And no I didn't detail each of the links, but did look. 

[MaximilianKohler]

"'healthy' gut microbes from a carb eating person will have little effect or value for someone eating zero carb."

I wouldn't think so. The gut microbiome is vastly more complex than that. Its functions extend way beyond digestion of food. https://old.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/wiki/intro#wiki_mechanisms.3A

And there are very complex interactions, such as some microbes breaking down fats/proteins, while other microbes rely on those secondary metabolites created by the "primary" microbes, use them, resulting in further chains of events/impacts.

[van]

YES I GET IT.  THEY DO A LOT.   But show me a study where they are implanted in someone eating zero carb.  Or even better, show me one analysis where they've identified those bacteria from someone eating zc.   Until that is presented, we're both speaking in the dark.