...I felt a little like eating 2 eggs today (scrambled, as I don't trust raw animal products)....
A wise decision to make at least two exceptions to fruitarianism. Food-borne illness outbreaks and recalls in recent years have involved not just lightly cooked beef, but also plant food products like raw spinach, peanut butter, sesame seeds, pistachios, "Veggie Booty," etc., as well as cooked restaurant egg and fish dishes. Why do you trust plant food products, and cooked eggs and seafood and why do you consider eggs and seafood more Paleo than land mammal meats & fats?
For the love of god try and eat more fruit.
Yes, I decided to take your advice and have been doing that the last several days to put your approach to the test--eating more raw, organic fruits and nuts and all-natural juice with no added sugars or flavors and less meat and fat. It will also enable me to quickly get rid of the remaining carb foods so I can get going on zero carb. The results: my gums are starting to get irritated again, my teeth have that nasty carb film on them again that I try to scrub clean with an electric toothbrush, Oxycare oral irrigator, dental floss and washcloth, and I have to scrub 2 or 3 times a day, but they never seem to get as clean as they were when I was near-zero carb. I'm getting a return of dead skin on my lips, nose, forehead, and scalp, I'm not sleeping as well, waking up with pains and stiffness in the morning, and generally feeling worse. Thanks a lot!
Since you've shown no Hogan clan allegiance and don't seem overly concerned by your having to wash your teeth a lot, I'll return to asking you to please continue eating lots of fruit and please don't eat wild fish (to keep the price down for me ;-) ).
This is as opposed to what, alleged teeth problems?
I don't want to lose my teeth like my grandparents did or have to get a permanent dental bridge like my father has, which I was close to needing. If you don't care about teeth and gum problems and pain, that's your choice.
Palophil, let's get a bit of perspective here. I'm not a 100% fruitarian or even vegan, I have fish and sometimes eggs. I have green tea and supplements and cocoa. 90% fruitarian is VASTLY less controversial and "fruity" as 90% meat and the latter is nothing like paleo man 95% of time plus in my opinion.
Thanks for the candor. I can see your difficulty in finding a diet forum that can be your home. You would probably take a lot of flack at fruitarian and vegetarian forums for eating eggs and fish, and perhaps cheating in additional ways you haven't divulged? The PaleoFood forum you trashed is actually more in line with your diet than this forum, though you might learn more here because there are quite a number of former fruitarians and vegetarians here. The forums that come closest to matching your diet might be the Weight Watchers and Ornish forums, though they have a weight-loss orientation that may not fit your goals.
ESPECIALLY raw meat. It's insane... sorry, I don't often go there, but I had to this time.
Animals are your relatives as well and you eat them. I'm not using this as a part of my argument as to better/worse for health, I'm just throwing you a philosophical err... bone.
Your insults really don't bother me. What is the source of your emotion on this? What is this philosophy you speak of? Did you have a bad experience with meat in your youth?
My skin was terrible and is now slowly getting to perfection on my fruitarian-esque diet. It was terrible despite all the green tea, huge amounts of fruit, vitamins etc. etc. I was taking, the only thing to slowly kill off the little bits of acne was the fruitarian-esque diet.
Fascinating. Please share the secret of your success. What was the difference between the diet with huge amounts of fruit and vitamins that gave you bad skin and the fruitarian-esque diet that is clearing your skin?
Don't take this the wrong way but have you ever considered writing testimonials for flashy products sites....?
There aren't a lot of large companies paying people to write testimonials for pasture-fed (or wild), raw meat/fat/organs. At least with fruitarianesque-ism you could work for a large fruit/juice manufacturer like Dole, Chiquita, etc.
Quote from: PaleoPhil on July 09, 2009, 11:08:09 AM:
"You still haven't explained where you got the idea that Paleolithic humans were fruitarians. The book you mentioned, Man the Hunted, doesn't make that argument...."
The book does make the argument a bit. Look at page 226 to page 231. They explained it better than I could....
OK, thanks for pointing to the heart of their argument. I read that and it doesn't claim that Paleolithic humans were fruitarians. Instead it argues:
"…we can hypothesize that early humans were able to exploit A WIDE RANGE OF DIETARY RESOURCES [emphasis mine], including hard, brittle foods (fruits, nuts, seeds, and pods), and soft, weak foods (ripe fruits, young leaves and herbs, flowers and buds). They were also able to eat abrasive objects, including gritty plant parts, such as grass seeds, roots rhizomes, and underground tubers. … [Teaford and Ungar] state: 'The early hominids were not dentally preadapted to eat meat--they simply did not have the sharp, reciprocally concave shearing blades necessary to retain and cut such foods." [No, but they had sharp rocks. LOL Even vultures use rocks to crack open ostrich eggs, for Pete's sake. If birds can use them, why couldn't early hominids whose hands were much better adapted to hold them? Rocks would have come in particularly handy when cracking open long bones and skulls to get at the marrow and brains that other animals couldn't reach. Regardless of whether early hominids scavenged or hunted or both the end result was the same--fats and meats to eat.]
It goes on to say that humans have an omnivorous alimentary track, meaning we are adapted to eat a wide variety of plants and meats--not just fruits. I agree with this and my view has never been that we cannot eat plants.
Interestingly, they include legumes ("pods"), "grass seeds" (which would include grains and grain-like seeds) and tubers among the typical foods Paleo humans would have eaten, implying they ate far more of these than meats. What is your opinion on eating legumes, grains and tubers? Are these healthy foods? Healthier than raw, pasture-fed and wild meats, fats and organs?
Quote from: PaleoPhil on July 09, 2009, 11:08:09 AM
"Also, if so many people think that Stone Agers were fruitarians, as you seem to think, then why are there no Paleo-fruitarian diet forums?"
Pure, unashamed, ad hominem. This is the same things you're saying over and over.
Ad hominem means attacking the person who is making the argument instead of addressing the substance of the claim. You claimed over at the PaleoFood forum that the people there who eat significant amounts of meat had "hijacked" the term Paleo diet and misused it, that you were surprised that eating peanut shells
was not one of the common topics there and that some Paleo dieters would eat so much protein, and basically implied that the views over there are in a tiny minority, arguing that the diets of the people there and here are very unhealthy. I asked for evidence to support your claims--if a flesh-heavy diet is so much rarer and more absurd than a fruitarianesque diet, why isn't there a fruitarianesque forum and why aren't the Paleo dieters in these forums complaining about deteriorating health and leaving for a fruitarianesque forum? That is not ad hominem, it's basic sense. If half of what you say is true then you should be able to start your own fruitarianesque Yahoo group (which doesn't take much time) and easily get people to leave here and flock to it. Why don't you? That question was asked of you at the other forum and you still haven't answered it.
Back to the teeth AGAIN...? Fine, I do find it somewhat interesting to hear about your teeth remineralization.
Fascinating, isn't it? Here's some info on it:
"Remineralization occurs when calcium from the saliva and other sources replace a tooth's lost calcium. When the calcium is replaced, the enamel can repair itself. In order for this process to take place, the surface of the tooth needs to be very clean, there needs to be a sufficient flow of saliva, and there needs to be an adequate amount of calcium." (
http://hubpages.com/hub/Remineralization-of-tooth-cavities)
So you see, we must have enough calcium in our systems, because "an adequate amount of calcium" is necessary for remineralization to occur. So our tooth remineralization also suggests that our bone density is probably improving, which Lex Rooker reports dental x-rays have documented in his case. Again, if you value your health, read all you can of Lex's bio, journal and posts.
I don't want sound obnoxious but after hearing about remineralization I thought maybe the high animal protein diet could do that. After reading this, I'm inclined to think that it probably IS a mainly isolated phenomenon
What are you talking about, the geophagy (therapeutic ingestion of clays)?
I DID. I tried it and I hated it. I felt terrible.
OK, care to be any more specific?
You should call your diet the "neo diet"... the diet of Neolithic people.
The Neolithic began with the dawn of agriculture, which would mean eating foods I don't eat, such as grains, dairy, legumes, etc. You can call your diet whatever you want and I hope you'll show me the same courtesy. I tend to call mine an "ancestral diet."
... that's a sort of gradual wear and tear that happens with a lot of things with age. I don't care how good your diet is, by the time you're 45 you won't play soccer as well as when you were 25. My dad is about 80 now and his top teeth are fully replaced...
I already explained to you--my "natural wear and tear" have been reversing--or at least they were until I followed your fruitarianesque advice.
I used to keep off grapefruit and tomatoes but am back on them now... I admit I'm scared of my mind at the thought of going back to the dentist.
I too used to fear the painful dental cleanings. Now they feel like a pleasurable massage. I never would have guessed that such rapid improvement was possible.
I've sent away for a big load of vitamins with fish oils etc.
Think about it, fish oils are a wild animal fat. So wild animal fats are apparently healthy--else why supplement with them? Why do you need a wild animal fat supplement and loads of vitamins if today's fruits are so healthy?
This is flying directly in the face of high protein diets which create a VERY acidy environment inside in the body. NOONE disputes this or says that fruits will cause bad bones
Again, you're talking about COOKED meat. This is the RAW Paleo diet forum, remember? And we dispute that claim as regards raw flesh, obviously.
