2 years, health not improving

[CircleGirl]

Hi all,

Me and my Dad have been on the raw paleo diet for near on 2 years, and I can't say I've seen much improvement in our health..
Previous to this, we'd been Vegan for a year, and me a fruitarian for a year too. After a couple of months on the raw, I started experiencing debilitation fatigue, and after many months of investigation, it was declared that I'd gotten Toxoplasmosis. No treatment was given, just blood monitoring to make sure it was leaving my body. Usually people get over this infection within a week, but it left me with Post Viral Chronic Fatigue, from which I am mostly recovered physically - but mentally, my cognitive abiliities are very much still distorted, and I miss the clarity and verve which normal life used to hold.
I've been discharged now. Interesting thihng they found on an ultrasound was that my gallbladder was slightly distended (unsure if that was due to the Toxo, but it didn't seem to worry them)
I still have very little energy, and am wondering at this point if my body is even able to digest fats? I've had similar symptoms to IBS on and off this whole time. Ever since being on the diet, I've also noticed that I'm producing a lot more phlegm...

My father (46) has always struggled with addictions and depression, and it doesn't seem as though the diet has altered this at all. He has very low energy as well and his chronic back pain hasn't changed.

Unfortunately, we can't afford any decent meat, we basically live off supermarket mince (20%). We used to get brasising steak and suet from the butchers, until we found out they freeze all their suet.
I include lamb liver and heart in my diet, raw milk when I can get it, raw butter (although I had to stop this, as it seems to make me break out, and causes ulcers in my moouth for some reason)
I know supermarket meat is the last source you wanna go to, but I've seen many people on this forum say it is far better than eating cooked.
I'm just so confused why we are still suffering and enegy drained, when my heart tells me this is that raw paleo is the most natural way for human to eat...

Anyone got any ideas?
I'm 22 and don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling like an old woman lol

[dair]

sorry to hear... I would say fasting, or semi fasting could be one way to improve things. Meat in itself is not a magic tool that will heal everything, especially if it is low quality stuff.
Herbs, roots, etc can have a good and strong healing effect. We tend to forget that part, especially carnivores. But look at cats, they love to sample herbs and plants, because they know what their body needs.
Try to see the whole picture. And, not only what you eat, but also drinking water, exposure to other toxins, and electromagnetic pollution.

[political atheist]

Do you have any dentistry  material in your mouth, like fillings, crowns, bridges, retainer, implants etc.etc?

[CircleGirl]

sorry to hear... I would say fasting, or semi fasting could be one way to improve things. Meat in itself is not a magic tool that will heal everything, especially if it is low quality stuff.
Herbs, roots, etc can have a good and strong healing effect. We tend to forget that part, especially carnivores. But look at cats, they love to sample herbs and plants, because they know what their body needs.
Try to see the whole picture. And, not only what you eat, but also drinking water, exposure to other toxins, and electromagnetic pollution.

Thanks for your advice, unfortunately fasting hadn't really worked in the past - it just makes me more fatigued, and because of my father's addictions, he always ends up swinging the other way and overeating..
I'll consider how I could incorporate a more holistic approach =)

[norawnofun]

You can try and get yourself these 2 medicinal fungi: lions mane extract powder for the brain/depression/digestion, and cordyceps extract powder for energy/ATP/increased blood oxygen. This can work wonders. Lions mane is for nerve regeneration (regrowth) and, as far as I know, also works on/repairs spinal nerve damage. You could combine it with a liquid tincture of each (lions mane tincture can be bought wild-harvested) This would give you the full spectrum of the fungi. Most places sell dual extract, some triple (made the spagyrik-old alchemist way). Don´t go for single extract. Then, as Dair mentioned, get yourself something against EMF - go for shungite and/or the q-link (in the form of a pendant or bracelet) and don´t drink tap water. If you decide either between the extract powder (NOT the normal powder) or the tincture, go for the extract.

And as for the dosage, 1 teaspoon of extract powder once daily, after taken for a couple of days, should already show good improvements.

[CircleGirl]

Do you have any dentistry  material in your mouth, like fillings, crowns, bridges, retainer, implants etc.etc?

Hi,
Yes, I have a couple of non-mercury ones, my dad has a couple of mercury ones still in...
I also have a deepish cavatie for which I'm taking fermented cod-liver oil and clarified butter, suggested by Dr Weston Price

[CircleGirl]

Hi,
Yes, I have a couple of non-mercury ones, my dad has a couple of mercury ones still in...
I also have a deepish cavatie for which I'm taking fermented cod-liver oil and clarified butter, suggested by Dr Weston Price

I've never come across these remedies, thanks very much for the suggestion! I'll look into them =)

[Dingeman]

I had the same problem as you, to a certain degree. What I found out is that I couldn't tolerate red meat. I was eating supermarket mince too and thought it was due to supposed ''bad quality'' that my health wasn't improving. When I started eating raw chicken only, without any forms of red meat, I started actually improving quickly.

Try to eat raw white meat (chicken) for a week and see if you feel better. Make sure to not eat any red meat at all in this week.

[CircleGirl]

I had the same problem as you, to a certain degree. What I found out is that I couldn't tolerate red meat. I was eating supermarket mince too and thought it was due to supposed ''bad quality'' that my health wasn't improving. When I started eating raw chicken only, without any forms of red meat, I started actually improving quickly.

Try to eat raw white meat (chicken) for a week and see if you feel better. Make sure to not eat any red meat at all in this week.

Oh, good to know! Where do you source your chicken from? I don't think I could trust supermarket poultry.
It seems strange that you can't tolerate red meat, when our ancestors would be hunting both birds, fish and mammals though. Do you think it's just the effects of previous diets causing it?

[Dingeman]

Oh, good to know! Where do you source your chicken from? I don't think I could trust supermarket poultry.
It seems strange that you can't tolerate red meat, when our ancestors would be hunting both birds, fish and mammals though. Do you think it's just the effects of previous diets causing it?

I have no clue what caused it. The only one who even mentions red meat intolerance in a raw meat context is Aajonus. He says some people are riddled with adrenaline and other hormone toxicity that causes them to be susceptible to red meat (I also react strongly to caffeine, onions, garlic and most processed foods) I do also notice that his claim that this type of person gets a tan quite easily, seems to be correct in my case as well.

I buy organic chicken from the supermarkets and never had any problems with that.

[Infernalex]

How much do you weigh?
Given that you had been vegan before, you are likely very thin.
You say that you drink raw milk when you can get it. In your state, you should probably be drinking raw milk every day.
If you have trouble digesting it, you could try adding raw honey to the raw milk.
All tribes that eat only animal foods drink a lot of raw milk, except for the Eskimos but those eat nose to tail and mostly seafood instead. You don't do any of that.
Once you have enough raw milk, you could start adding raw eggs.
Wish you the best of luck.

[CircleGirl]

How much do you weigh?
Given that you had been vegan before, you are likely very thin.
You say that you drink raw milk when you can get it. In your state, you should probably be drinking raw milk every day.
If you have trouble digesting it, you could try adding raw honey to the raw milk.
All tribes that eat only animal foods drink a lot of raw milk, except for the Eskimos but those eat nose to tail and mostly seafood instead. You don't do any of that.
Once you have enough raw milk, you could start adding raw eggs.
Wish you the best of luck.

I'm 5'5 and have weighed between 8 s 9 ib and 7 9 ib (I'm closer to the latter now) which is a healthy BMI for my height.
I do eat plenty of raw honey, (though have never added it to the milk) and have drunk plenty of raw milk, but nothing seems to make me feel any different.
As an experiment, I tried avoiding fats and going back into fruit, and I don't get the heavy digestive fatigue I get from the meat and fats.. Slowly I've been adding eggs and liver, and feel the same, as they don't have too much fat content. No yucky feelings yet.
I'll keep upping those, and will try oxbile tablets and beet kvass to stimulate my bile production to break up the fats, but I don't even know if that's the problem, as I don't have most of the symptoms of malabsorption...
I have some high meat and high liver in the go, to see if that does anything.

Thanks for your take =)

[Dingeman]

I'm 5'5 and have weighed between 8 s 9 ib and 7 9 ib (I'm closer to the latter now) which is a healthy BMI for my height.
I do eat plenty of raw honey, (though have never added it to the milk) and have drunk plenty of raw milk, but nothing seems to make me feel any different.
As an experiment, I tried avoiding fats and going back into fruit, and I don't get the heavy digestive fatigue I get from the meat and fats.. Slowly I've been adding eggs and liver, and feel the same, as they don't have too much fat content. No yucky feelings yet.
I'll keep upping those, and will try oxbile tablets and beet kvass to stimulate my bile production to break up the fats, but I don't even know if that's the problem, as I don't have most of the symptoms of malabsorption...
I have some high meat and high liver in the go, to see if that does anything.

Thanks for your take =)

I feel like we are in similar situations. I also have trouble digesting fats, especially red meats.

I started eating raw chicken only and am currently making high chicken. I recommend you to do the same, ditch the high liver and only make high muscle meat. It is possible you have gallbladder stones/problems that are hard to get rid of. The only thing that is really effective is good high meat. This is why you should do the following exactly: get a new fresh jar that hasn't been used for high meat/fermentation before and make high chicken in your fridge. air it every 3 days or so and stir the contents to make sure all sides are rotten. Use fresh chicken. I found that high meat actually dissolves gallbladder stones, but only if it's done in the proper way I just described. Red meat is hard for gallbladder patients to digest, other people have said the same.

[dariorpl]

I would avoid the mince. Try finding a cheap source of meat cuts, it doesn't matter what cuts they are, but you don't know what's in that mince. There could be other things added, or parts of the animal that are high in toxins and you wouldn't be eating them if the whole cut was presented to you. If you get a chunk of supermarket meat and have it at room temperature and without any additives, you will notice that some parts of the fat is tasty, but some isn't. Don't eat the parts that don't taste good. Those are likely cooked fats from grains and full of toxins. When you eat mince, you can't avoid eating this.

I would also tend to be careful with the organs, eating them sparingly, or avoid them altogether. Organs from animals that are fed an unnatural diet, given lots of chemicals and kept in unnatural conditions can be overloaded with toxicity.

Frozen foods are not ideal but if you know the source is good and free of toxins, I would prefer it over high toxin meat, or have some of both. Either way I would avoid the mince.

Are you eating a lot of salt? Try weaning yourself off of it if you are. See if reducing salt intake improves digestion. You may not want to go cold turkey because there will be withdrawal symptoms.

If you're can't digest fats, the fats should be coming out undigested. It's possible that your gallbladder is damaged and you can digest some fats, but not a lot. Keep in mind the gallbladder is used when you need to digest large amounts of fats, but small amounts can be digested even if you've had your gallblader removed. By the way, eggs do contain a sizable amount of fats in the yolk. This fat is easier to digest however, since it's already liquid. It could also be a stomach acid issue. If you have a stomach acid issue, you would want your foods ground down, in that case you could get a meat grinder or food processor, or just chew things very finely.

I don't know how the oxbile tablets are made but I wouldn't take anything made in a lab. Plenty of people use raw bile instead, maybe you could get a source of that. It's generally thrown away during slaughter and/or butchering. As for the beet kvass, I would not want to have that while having a meat meal, as that can interfere with digestion. See what happens if you eliminate the fermented cod-liver oil and clarified butter. Have raw butter instead.

Is your dad still an alcoholic or drug addict?

Btw, I would be very careful with doing high meat with anything but great quality sources of meat and organs. Fermenting something that's already toxic is dangerous.

[CircleGirl]

I feel like we are in similar situations. I also have trouble digesting fats, especially red meats.

I started eating raw chicken only and am currently making high chicken. I recommend you to do the same, ditch the high liver and only make high muscle meat. It is possible you have gallbladder stones/problems that are hard to get rid of. The only thing that is really effective is good high meat. This is why you should do the following exactly: get a new fresh jar that hasn't been used for high meat/fermentation before and make high chicken in your fridge. air it every 3 days or so and stir the contents to make sure all sides are rotten. Use fresh chicken. I found that high meat actually dissolves gallbladder stones, but only if it's done in the proper way I just described. Red meat is hard for gallbladder patients to digest, other people have said the same.

How do you manage on a ketogenic diet if you can't digest fats well? Surely chicken has very little fat?
I really want to try your suggestion of experimenting with white meat only, but cannot find anywhere that sells organic chicken, even supermarkets. I do live in the UK though.
I can't even really find reliable fish sources!

[CircleGirl]

I would avoid the mince. Try finding a cheap source of meat cuts, it doesn't matter what cuts they are, but you don't know what's in that mince. There could be other things added, or parts of the animal that are high in toxins and you wouldn't be eating them if the whole cut was presented to you. If you get a chunk of supermarket meat and have it at room temperature and without any additives, you will notice that some parts of the fat is tasty, but some isn't. Don't eat the parts that don't taste good. Those are likely cooked fats from grains and full of toxins. When you eat mince, you can't avoid eating this.

I would also tend to be careful with the organs, eating them sparingly, or avoid them altogether. Organs from animals that are fed an unnatural diet, given lots of chemicals and kept in unnatural conditions can be overloaded with toxicity.

Frozen foods are not ideal but if you know the source is good and free of toxins, I would prefer it over high toxin meat, or have some of both. Either way I would avoid the mince.

Are you eating a lot of salt? Try weaning yourself off of it if you are. See if reducing salt intake improves digestion. You may not want to go cold turkey because there will be withdrawal symptoms.

If you're can't digest fats, the fats should be coming out undigested. It's possible that your gallbladder is damaged and you can digest some fats, but not a lot. Keep in mind the gallbladder is used when you need to digest large amounts of fats, but small amounts can be digested even if you've had your gallblader removed. By the way, eggs do contain a sizable amount of fats in the yolk. This fat is easier to digest however, since it's already liquid. It could also be a stomach acid issue. If you have a stomach acid issue, you would want your foods ground down, in that case you could get a meat grinder or food processor, or just chew things very finely.

I don't know how the oxbile tablets are made but I wouldn't take anything made in a lab. Plenty of people use raw bile instead, maybe you could get a source of that. It's generally thrown away during slaughter and/or butchering. As for the beet kvass, I would not want to have that while having a meat meal, as that can interfere with digestion. See what happens if you eliminate the fermented cod-liver oil and clarified butter. Have raw butter instead.

Is your dad still an alcoholic or drug addict?

Btw, I would be very careful with doing high meat with anything but great quality sources of meat and organs. Fermenting something that's already toxic is dangerous.

Every opinion seems to be conflicting. We'd love to eat good quality meat, but simply can't afford it. Everything from the supermarkets to local butchers is grain fed.
I do eat lambs liver from New Zealand, which I would've thought to be grass fed as there's so much land for them up there, but you can never know, especially during Winter...

He's never been addicted to drugs - just everything else lol. Tobacco, overeating, alcohol. Most of the time he can't drink as he's on tablets for it, but he does slip up occasionally. And yes, he's still plagued by stress and struggling with addictions

I was having a lot of pink Himalayan salt, but haven't had any for many months now and feel no different, so that's not it. As for stomach acid, I'm not sure, I don't have acid reflux or anything, but tend to eat pretty quickly, so have started trying to slow it down to help my body break it up, like you say

I never see undigested fats in my stool, but the fat in mince us ground up, do I wouldn't expect to. I've never known it not to float though, but whether that's due to fat or gas there, I'm not sure

I could try asking the butchers about bile, but if you don't recommend their meat, surely the bile isn't any good either?

We're a little conflicted on freezing. A lot of people on this forum do, but surely it kills off the majority of the bacteria (good and bad) and nutrients?

[dariorpl]

You misunderstood, I said avoid the mince, not all meat from the supermarket/butcher. By mince I assume you mean ground meat? The problem is not simply being grain fed, but also that when the meat is ground, it could have other things besides meat added to it, or it could have high toxin fat that you would spit out if you were to try to eat it whole and plain, but since it's ground, you still eat it.

I'm not sure why you thought doing this diet would cure addictions, if anything it makes it easier to indulge in those and still survive, or keep your health deteriorating at a slower pace than it otherwise would. If he wants to improve, he needs to cut out or dramatically reduce tobacco and alcohol. And I don't think pills are good either.

Try marinating meats in lemon juice for a few hours. If possible, grind or mash the meat, or chop it as fine as you can, prior to marinating. Then chew well as you eat it. If that improves digestion, you know it's lack of stomach acid.

I don't eat bile, but I was saying that raw bile would be better than tablets.

Freezing does kill many bacteria and destroy nutrients, but it doesn't add many toxins either. So it can be a compromise if all your options are grassfed frozen or grainfed fresh.

[CircleGirl]

You misunderstood, I said avoid the mince, not all meat from the supermarket/butcher. By mince I assume you mean ground meat? The problem is not simply being grain fed, but also that when the meat is ground, it could have other things besides meat added to it, or it could have high toxin fat that you would spit out if you were to try to eat it whole and plain, but since it's ground, you still eat it.

I'm not sure why you thought doing this diet would cure addictions, if anything it makes it easier to indulge in those and still survive, or keep your health deteriorating at a slower pace than it otherwise would. If he wants to improve, he needs to cut out or dramatically reduce tobacco and alcohol. And I don't think pills are good either.

Try marinating meats in lemon juice for a few hours. If possible, grind or mash the meat, or chop it as fine as you can, prior to marinating. Then chew well as you eat it. If that improves digestion, you know it's lack of stomach acid.

I don't eat bile, but I was saying that raw bile would be better than tablets.

Freezing does kill many bacteria and destroy nutrients, but it doesn't add many toxins either. So it can be a compromise if all your options are grassfed frozen or grainfed fresh.

Sorry, my mistake. You advocate eating the meat and raw suet from the butchers, even if frozen, over minced beef.

Thanks very much for your advice =)

[Pantera]

  Prepackaged minced meats such as ground meat, hamburger patties and sausages are literally 10% soy, bread and corn. It says so on the label; and they also have traces of other things, like lactose and nuts. My theory is that you are poisoning yourself accidentally, so you should stop and go straight to a butcher and ask him to grind a specific cut of the meat. Ask for CHUCK steak, and tell the butcher to grind it. Ask twice, always grind twice the same cut of chuck.

Watch this to understand how soy causes depression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6g_geYeL4U
The girl in the video cut out every food except cooked meat, got better. Then she ate soy sauce in abundance and got severely depressed for 30 days. She's Jordan Peterson's daughter, and they both got way healthier by eating soy-free diets. So we can say for sure that our sensitivity to certain foods is genetic.

Note for the future: Supermarkets are soy-factories for the masses. For example, how do regular people season their meat? Black pepper. Can you guess what black pepper bottles have traces of? That's right, soy.

Hope this was helpful, update in 30 days and tell us how you both feel?