Any experience with High Fish?

[natural_Jose]

Title is pretty self-explanatory. I regularly eat high liver, however i have never heard of anyone making "high fish" by just putting some fish in a jar and letting it sit.

To expand a bit, ive been fishing almost every day for the past couple weeks (underwater, not with a rod) and i eat most of what i catch and the rest i give to the cats.
Today while fishing i had the thought of why not trying to do something else with the fish. I have seen stuff like this https://www.wikihow.com/Ferment-Fish but it just seems unnecessary, thats why im asking if any of you have any experience with making 'fermented' fish in the classical way we know of just leaving meat in a jar.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Recommend you try and find if you like the really wonderful strong flavour and taste!    Keep out of refrigerator and air regularly, keep fish moist and away from direct sunlight.    Longer you keep it, the better it tastes, and should be good after a month or two.    If it does dry, immerse in water and it will recover to continue storing.    Smell can be quite strong but you get to like it.   Keep covered to maintain moisture, you can air jar outside but flies may find it, but perhaps you won't mind?     

[Dingeman]

I would keep it in the fridge if you make it. It takes longer but the result is way better. Air every other day.

[dair]

swedes are famous for "surströmming", but not raw I think. Never eaten it, smell is very extreme when you open the can, normally done outdoors in summer, but people say taste is much milder. But not interested to eat canned fish. Still, some Swedes craves this kind of aged fish.
But actually I am interested in making high fish, so I suppose it should be a low fat fish, or does it matter?
In Thailand, Vietnam etc, they are big on fish- and oyster sauce, I can imagine it was done when there was an overabundance at a certain time... Probably the original versions were just raw fish/oyster, shrimp plus maybe one or more of these ingredients: herbs/roots/spices/citrus/garlic to make them keep longer.

[natural_Jose]

Forgot to add an update for the record, the type of fish i used were bogues. I left it for almost a month before trying it for the first time and it was awful. I couldnt eat it, the smell was just vile, nothing like high meat which smells great. This smelled putrid. I then tried a couple weeks later, but the smell was still really bad and i didnt eat it.
I also made some fish in a sort of kefir brine - i made it with salt water, kefir, lemon, and a bit of onion. Left the fish in that for 4 or 5 days before trying them and they were great.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Sorry it was not successful.    Need to keep trying, as it takes both effort and ingenuity.    Probably not aired enough, and can recover if left open, or even exposed outdoors.    Smell is very powerful, with flavour very sharp and strong – definitely an acquired taste, but well worth the effort and time it takes.    Do not give up, or you will miss out on the strongest and sharpest treats imaginable.    Look up Primal Diet /  ‘Are you sure that rotten Fish is safe to eat?’ by Fireball on 17 January 2020, in this Raw Paleo and you will find some answers.

[dair]

Francis, I'm really interested in making high fish, so basically you just cut in pieces, put in fridge and air everyday? Or? Did I miss something? And for how long? Can I/should I add some ingredients or just 100% fish? Thanks!

[Dingeman]

Francis, I'm really interested in making high fish, so basically you just cut in pieces, put in fridge and air everyday? Or? Did I miss something? And for how long? Can I/should I add some ingredients or just 100% fish? Thanks!

Chop fish in small pieces, so that it ferments faster because there is more surface area and so you don't have to break it up when you start eating it. Also, use fresh fish. Stuff it in a glass jar and put it in the fridge. Air it every other day so monday then wednesday then friday.. etc. Stir the contents from time to time as well to make sure all pieces are exposed to air and thus can ferment. Try a piece after 1 month, it is usually done/strong enough after 2 or 3 months. Don't add other ingredients.

BTW, normal high meat stinks already, so make sure to use another fridge than your main fridge. I use a small mini fridge to ferment and in there is like 3 boxes and 3 layers of plastic bags to contain the smell lol.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

High Fish is fantastic and simply allows controlled rotting of fish for exciting taste and flavour.    The smell may seem extreme, but one can enjoy this with experience.    Cutting fish into pieces speeds the process, and putting previously well rotted fish in contact in container is helpful.    Plastic containers best avoided, although Inuit problems with these probably result of long term storage.   Glass or china containers are best.   If lid is sealed it should be aired periodically, but not necessarily daily.   Kept in fridge it can take longer to age.   Out of fridge, process speeds up, and high room temperature works, as proved by Meateor Man AFK who kept his Tuna in jar underground, and then in his car and aired at high temperature.   Airing outdoors, flies may get in, so unless you regard this as beneficial improvement, cover container with fine fabric sealed at edges.    Pure Raw Fish alone is needed, with no condiments when ready to eat.    Time taken relates to temperature and storage method, and to individual choice, and can range from weeks to months.    Generally the longer the better, as long as it is kept moist – the longer the stronger!    All relates to fresh raw fish and frozen fish is difficult, as it refuses to rot.    If you want to try frozen fish I am experimenting, with some success, over a long period.    Let me know how you get on and I will help you with this project, as I do not want you to fail or give up!

[dair]

Thanks both of you for the good advice, and need to find a good source of fresh fish. Sometimes I have the feeling the fish seller here sells frozen fish that has been thawed. I nowadays live in a landlocked area far from sea, and there is aquaculture, but not for me. Having grown up with a fishing dad coming home with all sorts of ocean fish, I know the taste of good quality fish and very fresh fish. I rarely experience it nowadays, as it has to be shipped etc.
So, I live in central Germany, and many people here say they hate fish, and some even say they've only eaten it a few times in their lives!! Not to mention sushi/raw, so many germans would NEVER dream about trying it. It's just incredible how backward and rigid this place it. Needless to say, I miss the coast.

[Dingeman]

I just want to say that from my experience warm fermentation does not yield the same results as cold fermentation. Cold fermentation has waaaaaay stronger effects than warm. I feel like people only do warm fermentation because it is ''quicker'' but there is no point in doing it because it simply isn't the same as a proper cold fermentation. Avoid plastic at all costs.

[GustafStahl]

swedes are famous for "surströmming", but not raw I think. Never eaten it, smell is very extreme when you open the can, normally done outdoors in summer, but people say taste is much milder. But not interested to eat canned fish. Still, some Swedes craves this kind of aged fish.
But actually I am interested in making high fish, so I suppose it should be a low fat fish, or does it matter?
In Thailand, Vietnam etc, they are big on fish- and oyster sauce, I can imagine it was done when there was an overabundance at a certain time... Probably the original versions were just raw fish/oyster, shrimp plus maybe one or more of these ingredients: herbs/roots/spices/citrus/garlic to make them keep longer.

Hey there. Swede here. I am pretty sure that surströmming is indeed raw and fermented with salt. Surströmming is a local delicacy made in various places in Norrland, where I am from and live. One of the biggest makers of it is an hour from my homestead. Think that even the factory made (it is more like a big farm in the boonies with a house where they make/store it) is unpasteurized.

How to make surströmming:

Put herring into an open wooden barrel with very salty brine for a few days. After a few days, when it is saturated, you put the fish into a new barrel with less salty brine and put it outside to ferment. Should be 15-18 degrees, not too warm. It is fermented for up to eight weeks and then canned and shipped. People tend to eat really old surströmming, though. I have heard some eat several years old cans habitually. I dislike it, myself. I do eat raw fish and scallops, though and have tried high meat.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Any interest in this subject now?   Seems an excellent topic for conversation!

[rawcaveman]

I have made high stingray and shark.  Both are pretty strong in similar ways due to the nature of their excretory systems and how it affects the fermentation.  I think AV said it leads to more ammonia that is good for detoxing something that I forget.  Flavor is not amazing.  Usually a bit salty.

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Rotted Shark and Stingray are more Norwegian and if ammonia taste is excessive it can be fanned away and airing is more important with these.   I have not tried them yet and use Cod, Haddock, Hake and other white fish which I like to get really rotten.    Can be rotted inside a refrigerator or outside in a jar, cut in  small pieces to increase surface area while placing previously rotted fish with it helps it go off.   Hot weather is useful and even leaving outside for flies to find is a good idea as maggots can strengthen the flavour and add to the taste.    This may not appeal to everyone but, once tried, it will become a much favoured addition.   

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

How is everyone getting on with High Fish as a lot of you were trying this some time ago and this is a very interesting subject.   Would welcome any suggestions/recommendations particularly managing frozen fish, also using fish that is not fresh to start with (e.g. date expired etc.).    Is airing outdoors better than indoors and is fly contact actually really beneficial ?

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Am experimenting with fish bought beyond its "sell by" date and find this will mature more readily and in a shorter time.    Seems pointless to buy high priced fresh fish as "sell by" costs a lot less and rots satisfactorily to produce a nice texture and taste fairly quickly.    Have not yet tried keeping it for a few months as it tastes good and I keep on eating it.    If you can get some cheaply long after its "sell by" date it should be even better (and cheaper?).

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

Derek ‘Sabretooth’ is facing many problems just now, and I hope he will find a way to resolve them fairly soon as they have gone on for such a long time.
Previously very impressed by his activities  and experiments, and I particularly liked the ‘Maggot Meat’ in the family video.    He was extremely clever to cover rotten meat with wire gauze to keep varmints off,  but having holes clear enough to allow flies to get in, and he put it on a shelf in his garden shed.   Very impressed by the density of both eggs and larvae distribution all over the meat, and cannot wait to get same for my rotten fish.    Although he is very busy now, I would welcome details of mesh hole size and gauze closeness to the meat, also whether kept in darkkness and left undisturbed for long periods.    As he is clearly a leader in this field I will be grateful for advice or tips.