Journal of a carnivore

[goodsamaritan]

I just glimpsed upon a Heart Scan method.  I think you posted that.
That seems to be relevant.  You could get an analysis if arteries are clean or blocked.

[carnivore]

For my 41th birthday, I am spending some days in Normandy near Deauville. My sister has a house at Villers sur mer, next to the beach. It is a nice place to walk along the beach, swimming, running, etc. after the tourist season. It's also a nice place to enjoy the french gastronomy! The Normands are definitively “bons vivants” : Andouillette, boudin, camember au lait cru, pont lévèques, tarte tatin à la crème, coquille saint jacques, etc. Animal flesh and fat don't seem to scatter them. No more than me. It's the paradise for cooked carnivores!...For me, it is the opportunity to eat some seafood (oysters, shrimp, tourteau crabs, while waiting for the scallop in october), wild fish directly from the fisherman, to drink some organic cider. Raw butter is also very tasty here. I have found on the market of Caen some awesome mussels from “Utah beach”, which rank close to the ones from New Zealand. Oysters from Utah beach are also wonderful. They are crunchy with a taste of hazelnuts. The best ones for me (after wild oysters). Utah beach is a favoured place to breed seafood because it remains some wrecks from the second world war in the bottom of the sea where many marine plant and coral can grow and feed undersea life.
I feel very good here! Probably it is the fresh air (full of negative ions) and the raw seafood (iodine maybe?).

[rawlion]

Some food gives me more energy, like pork or pemmican.
I also like diversity, I am getting bored of beef.

Actually, the most important thing for me is to have enough energy. And I try to understand what causes these energy swings. Last year, I ate mainly pork during 4 months and I was full of energy. Now that I eat mainly beef, my energy is often too low.

It would have been logical to stick to the foods which gave you more energy. Why have you decided not to continue with pork as your main meat/fat source?

[carnivore]

It would have been logical to stick to the foods which gave you more energy. Why have you decided not to continue with pork as your main meat/fat source?

No more access to a good quality pork. But I still had the symtoms of excess fat : high pulse, cramps, arrythmia, ...

[William]

Since I cured arrhythmia with pemmican, I don't see it as a symptom of excess fat.
Malnutrition complicated by some metabolic disorder is my bet.

[rawlion]

I'd like to specify whether it was pork fat, pork meat or both that gave you good energy? Have you tried eating lean beef and pure pork fat?

Here is some info from one of my old posts: I have found in the live-food group archives an interesting suggestion. A certain Daniel Kane claimed that his “blood chemistry indicated that he needed to eat turkey and pork and cut back on chicken and beef. He believed it was because all the raw beef was overactivating his adrenal glands and the pork contains Thresine (an important amino acid in adrenaline function).” He also said that “proponents of all-raw diets attributed his unsatiated appetite for beef to anemia, however, according to blood chemistry it was his body desperately trying to get the amino acids it needed from red meat, which it couldn’t, no matter how much he ate. Whatever Thresine, if any, is found in other raw meats is miniscule compared to pork or compared to its utilization in pork.”

[yon yonson]

I'd like to specify whether it was pork fat, pork meat or both that gave you good energy? Have you tried eating lean beef and pure pork fat?

Here is some info from one of my old posts: I have found in the live-food group archives an interesting suggestion. A certain Daniel Kane claimed that his “blood chemistry indicated that he needed to eat turkey and pork and cut back on chicken and beef. He believed it was because all the raw beef was overactivating his adrenal glands and the pork contains Thresine (an important amino acid in adrenaline function).” He also said that “proponents of all-raw diets attributed his unsatiated appetite for beef to anemia, however, according to blood chemistry it was his body desperately trying to get the amino acids it needed from red meat, which it couldn’t, no matter how much he ate. Whatever Thresine, if any, is found in other raw meats is miniscule compared to pork or compared to its utilization in pork.”

that's intersting. however, i don't think 'thresine' is even a word, much less an amino acid. i think you're thinking of tyrosine which IS important in adrenal function. anyways, maybe i should eat more pork. i found a guy who sells it at the farmer's market claiming that it is from feral hogs that run wild near his farm (he just shoots em and cuts em up). i have it every once in a while and it tastes pretty good.

[rawlion]

CFS & FMS as Adrenaline Exhaustion

by Jacob Teitelbaum MD

"Let's begin with an important piece of biochemistry. Your body uses the amino acid (protein) called "tyrosine" to make the brain chemical dopamine (one of the "happiness molecules"). Dopamine is then turned into adrenaline (epinephrine and norepinephrine). Excessive production of adrenaline depletes tyrosine, followed by deficiencies of both dopamine and adrenaline. Tyrosine is also the amino acid used to make thyroid hormones. So it becomes clear that treating the tyrosine deficiency is important."

http://www.ei-resource.org/expert-columns/dr.-jacob-teitelbaums-column/cfs-and-fms-as-adrenaline-exhaustion/

[carnivore]

I'd like to specify whether it was pork fat, pork meat or both that gave you good energy? Have you tried eating lean beef and pure pork fat?

Here is some info from one of my old posts: I have found in the live-food group archives an interesting suggestion. A certain Daniel Kane claimed that his “blood chemistry indicated that he needed to eat turkey and pork and cut back on chicken and beef. He believed it was because all the raw beef was overactivating his adrenal glands and the pork contains Thresine (an important amino acid in adrenaline function).” He also said that “proponents of all-raw diets attributed his unsatiated appetite for beef to anemia, however, according to blood chemistry it was his body desperately trying to get the amino acids it needed from red meat, which it couldn’t, no matter how much he ate. Whatever Thresine, if any, is found in other raw meats is miniscule compared to pork or compared to its utilization in pork.”

Interesting. I will investigate.
Pork is a soft meat and fat, easier to digest for me. I am not sure it is related to the amino acid profil. I have noticed also that horse and donkey are also easier for my digestion because the fat is soft. Butter with lean beaf give me also a good energy.
My energy level is determined by many factors, not only the food I eat (even if I believe it is the most important factor). For exemple, I feel very good these days because I am currently on the cost and I can breath unpolluted fresh air. I sprint on the beach and this gives me good energy. I have put 3Kg of muscles on my carcass only by sprinting and eating seafood, fatty meat and raw butter.

[rawlion]

Most organ meats, such as liver, kidneys and heart are also very easy for digestion. I think a diet consisting of organs, fish and butter would be balanced and energy giving.

[carnivore]

Most organ meats, such as liver, kidneys and heart are also very easy for digestion. I think a diet consisting of organs, fish and butter would be balanced and energy giving.

If I eat organ regularly, I have pain in my fingertip. Look like an inflammation (gout?).

[rawlion]

Well, yes, organ meats such as liver, heart, kidney and sweetbreads contain high levels of purines. Traditional dietary advice for gout sufferers is to avoid all high-purine food and limit other foods that contain medium levels of purines. Even muscle meat carnivorous diet would be a bad idea for somebody with disrupted metabolism of purines.

Here is the list of purine levels in foods:
http://www.britishdalmatianclub.org.uk/downloads/Purine%20Table%202003.htm

You can learn more about purines here:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=51

Of special interest is the following paragraph:

The effect of cooking on purines

"Research on cooking and purine content is very limited. Animal studies in this area have shown definite changes in purine content following the boiling and broiling of beef, beef liver, haddock, and mushrooms.

However, even though these cooking processes affect purine content, the nature of the changes are not clear. On the one hand, boiling high-purine foods in water can cause break-down of the purine-containing components (called nucleic acids) and eventual freeing up of the purines for absorption. For example, in some animal studies, where rats were fed cooked versus non-cooked foods, the animals eating the cooked version experienced greater absorption and excretion of purine-related compounds.

From this evidence, it might be tempting to conclude that cook of high-purine foods actually increases the risk from purines. On the other hand, when foods were boiled, some of the purines were freed up into the cooking water and became lost from the food (because the water in which the food was boiled got discarded after cooking). From this evidence, the exact opposite conclusion would make sense: cooking of high-purines reduces the purine risk. "

I have rather unpleasant experience of uric acid kidney stones which were formed as a result of high purines raw zero carbohydarte diet. Prior to that I didn't think that raw animal foods could harm.

[carnivore]

FBG = 0.96 g/l (0.74-1.06) That seems high to me (though your A1C is lower than Lex's). Lex reported that his BG dropped 15 points by eat more fats, but I don't know whether he meant FBG or random BG
A1C = 5.5% (<6%) seems a little on the high side, but within range
Urea = 0.52 g/l (0.17-0.43) higher than range, but that may be normal for a carnivorous diet, as GS suggested. I did find this: "If possible, the patient should avoid eating a diet high in meat or other protein before having a blood urea nitrogen (BUN) test." http://www.doctorslounge.com/nephrology/labs/urea.htm But presumably your fasting before the test should have avoided that skewing. Dehydration is apparently the most common cause, and it can also indicate kidney problems. Many people report being less thirsty on a RAF diet, so it seems to be important to drink plenty of water (and perhaps mineral-rich water).
Total cholesterol = 4.31 g/l (<2) Higher than range, but may be normal for a carnivorous diet, I don't know. I've seen healthy ZCers report very high TC, but this does seem higher than avg even for ZC.
HDL = 0.65 g/l (>0.4) Good, though I'm surprised it's not a bit better after a year of raw carnivore
Triglycerids = 1.47 g/l (<1.5) Way too high. I'm surprised at this number.
LDL = 3.37 g/l (0.9-1.6) I've seen multiple ZCers report high LDL like this and it could actually be a good sign suggesting that you have more of the benign, large, fluffy LDL.
VLDL = 0.29 g/l (0.05-0.25) This seems high and concerning to me, however
Vitamin B9 (folic acid) = 2.94 (>5.38) Folate deficiency is common from plant-heavy diets--especially grain and fruit-based. Did you eat a plant-heavy diet in the past?

Fasting blood glucose is pretty high, like my A1C and my urea is too high.Yes, do you have one of those free BG devices that you can use to see what foods spike your BG? Are you drinking plenty of water?
LDL is very high and VLDL is a bit too high. -- I'm more concerned about the VLDL, which is a better predictor of heart disease than LDL (I've seen studies that found LDL to be no predictor at all); VLDL is most strongly linked to high-glycemic-load carbohydrates
Triglycerids could be lower. - Yes, mine dropped from 210 to 67 within 3 months of giving up gluten. For some reason you are not responding nearly as well as I did. Some possible causes are hypothyroidism, kidney dysfunction, high calories, alcohol, certain medicines.

I believe I still eat too much fat, as my pulse raises to 90 after eating, and I have some unpleasant symptoms. - I think Lex may have reported that phemenon also. Have you asked him about it?

You've reported eating these foods:
seafood (oysters, shrimp, tourteau crabs, while waiting for the scallop in october), wild fish directly from the fisherman. - You said you did well on these, so it sounds like seafood should be one of your staple foods if you can afford it.
some organic cider - I'm guessing this was a rare occurrence
Raw butter is also very tasty here - Are you consuming dairy products regularly? I don't want to start a dairy debate, but Tyler and I have both noticed that many VLCers and ZCers who continue to have health problems are regular consumers of some dairy products. Is this just coincidence, or could it be related? Lex and I don't consume much dairy and while our health is not perfect, we seem to have experienced more improvements than you. Again, is this just coincidence, or is there a relationship?

High pulse, arrhythmia, inflammation, sensitive teeth, blurred vision, "worse" hyperlipidemia, "severe digestive problems" ("still can't eat one fruit or one vegetable without having gas and abdominal pain like before").

High pulse, arrhythmia, inflammation, sensitive teeth, blurred vision, hyperlipidemia, digestive problems and high triglycerides are all associated with high-carb diets. Why you would be experiencing it on a raw carnivore diet with only occasional cider, I don't know. Could you list all the foods you regularly eat, including beverages, and any supplements/foodlements you take? Have you done any investigating yourself to figure out this puzzle? Have you looked into what nutritional and systemic deficiencies can contribute to these symptoms?

Some improvement: less gas, less abdominal pain, better energy - Yes, many VLC/ZC/carnivores report that

I was omnivorous before this ZC trial. My folate deficiency is caused by not eating enough organ (especially liver), and too much muscle. That does not bother me!
I drink to thirst : not much. I'll try to drink more.
I don't have a BG device.
My blood tests were much better before on a raw omnivorous diet, but I was in such a bad shape (underweight, always tired, etc.) that I decided to change my diet.
Seafood is a very good food for me, but does not give me enough energy (fat) on the long term, so cannot be a staple.
I eat mainly fatty beef and sheep, with occasional seafood and organs. I have definitively stopped eating butter.
I very seldom drink cider (once a year?)
Yes I talked with Lex and the high pulse occurs generally at the transition to a high fat diet, and does not last more than a few weeks. I started ZC 11 months ago.
My digestive system has not improved at all after 11 months of ZC : I ate fruits and veggies 3 days ago and I suffered gas and abdominal pain like before.

[PaleoPhil]

I don't have a BG device.

I got y OneTouch Ultra2 meter free online thanks to Todd Moody at PaleoFood. There are newer ones available now:

Free Glucose Meters: https://www.onetouchgold.com/simplestart/; http://free-glucose-meter.com/diabetes-store-glucose-meters.html

My blood tests were much better before on a raw omnivorous diet, but I was in such a bad shape (underweight, always tired, etc.) that I decided to change my diet.

Lex's BG improved after increasing fat.

Seafood is a very good food for me, but does not give me enough energy (fat) on the long term, so cannot be a staple.

What about fatty fish and fatty fish eaten with suet or marrow?

Yes I talked with Lex and the high pulse occurs generally at the transition to a high fat diet, and does not last more than a few weeks. I started ZC 11 months ago.

Did you ask him why your high pulse continues? Have you or anyone else come up with any possible explanations? My pulse remains low.

My digestive system has not improved at all after 11 months of ZC : I ate fruits and veggies 3 days ago and I suffered gas and abdominal pain like before.

When I occasionally cheat from carnivore I don't eat a lot of both fruits and veggies, I'll do things like have a handful of berries or a handful of raw salad veggies like broccoli and carrots. That way I don't get increases in dry skin and dental plaque or stomach upset, etc. like I used to when I was regularly eating significant carbs. I also try to clean my teeth well after eating any fruit and I ordered bone meal to further help in the dental area.

[carnivore]

I got y OneTouch Ultra2 meter free online thanks to Todd Moody at PaleoFood. There are newer ones available now:

Free Glucose Meters: https://www.onetouchgold.com/simplestart/; http://free-glucose-meter.com/diabetes-store-glucose-meters.html
Lex's BG improved after increasing fat.
What about fatty fish and fatty fish eaten with suet or marrow?
Did you ask him why your high pulse continues? Have you or anyone else come up with any possible explanations? My pulse remains low.
When I occasionally cheat from carnivore I don't eat a lot of both fruits and veggies, I'll do things like have a handful of berries or a handful of raw salad veggies like broccoli and carrots. That way I don't get increases in dry skin and dental plaque or stomach upset, etc. like I used to when I was regularly eating significant carbs. I also try to clean my teeth well after eating any fruit and I ordered bone meal to further help in the dental area.

How can a BG meters can help someone who eat fatty meat to hunger once a day ?
I can't digest fatty fish like sardines and mackerels...
Lex has no explanation for my high pulse.

[PaleoPhil]

How can a BG meters can help someone who eat fatty meat to hunger once a day ?

Have you been following Lex's journal? He regularly measures his BG and noticed that it varies depending on the level of fat he eats. You might discover something similar, and it's free! Although they only gave me a small number of test strips, but you probably wouldn't have to do a lot of measurements to get a general idea.

I can't digest fatty fish like sardines and mackerels...
Lex has no explanation for my high pulse.

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, I don't have an explanation for the high pulse either. There are so few people doing this WOE that we don't have a lot of data and analysis to draw on. You might try asking over at the ZC forum.

Can you digest wild salmon, tuna, trout or any other oily fish?

[TylerDurden]

I have gone through various stages where I was unable to properly absorb certain, particular raw foods while rawpalaeo. My take on this is that usually this happened because I overate those same foods, so that my body was more or less tired of getting an excess amount of the same old nutrients and wanted some other  foods, instead. Not that this was always the case, Those times, when I was on VLC, and developed a food-intolerance towards raw fruits, merely occured because I was eating so few raw carbs that I wasn't supplying enough carb-digesting bacteria etc. for my digestive system.

[carnivore]

Have you been following Lex's journal? He regularly measures his BG and noticed that it varies depending on the level of fat he eats. You might discover something similar, and it's free! Although they only gave me a small number of test strips, but you probably wouldn't have to do a lot of measurements to get a general idea.

No, it's not free : Pay attention: DiabetesStore gives free glucose meter only when you buy some amount of test strips from them! Thus, it's a kind of discount.
, and they probably don't ship to France.

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, I don't have an explanation for the high pulse either. There are so few people doing this WOE that we don't have a lot of data and analysis to draw on. You might try asking over at the ZC forum.

The ZC forum locked the thread I started a few months ago because the advices given by the members were not compliant with the dominant ideology of this forum. My account has been closed.

Can you digest wild salmon, tuna, trout or any other oily fish?

Salmon and tuna are OK for me.

[carnivore]

I have gone through various stages where I was unable to properly absorb certain, particular raw foods while rawpalaeo. My take on this is that usually this happened because I overate those same foods, so that my body was more or less tired of getting an excess amount of the same old nutrients and wanted some other  foods, instead. Not that this was always the case, Those times, when I was on VLC, and developed a food-intolerance towards raw fruits, merely occured because I was eating so few raw carbs that I wasn't supplying enough carb-digesting bacteria etc. for my digestive system.

I think you are right Tyler : I should vary my food, and not always eat the same thing. After reading Lex's journal and the ZC forum, I had the impression that different food was not required for good health. But that's definitively not a good idea for me. I will also try to eat a few fruits and probably veggies. A ZC diet seems to be too extreme for me!

[TylerDurden]

The ZC forum locked the thread I started a few months ago because the advices given by the members were not compliant with the dominant ideology of this forum. My account has been closed.

What thread was that? Presumably a pro-raw thread?

[carnivore]

What thread was that? Presumably a pro-raw thread?

I can't find the thread  because the search page requires an account. It was several months ago. I just asked some help for my symptoms. Not particularly pro-raw.

[TylerDurden]

I can't find the thread  because the search page requires an account. It was several months ago. I just asked some help for my symptoms. Not particularly pro-raw.

So they presumably don't like anyone complaining about negative symptoms while on cooked ZC. Plus, it's really childish to force people to register for an account merely in order to search past posts, people ought to be allowed to see what the forum is like before joining.

[PaleoPhil]

No, it's not free : Pay attention: DiabetesStore gives free glucose meter only when you buy some amount of test strips from them! Thus, it's a kind of discount.
, and they probably don't ship to France.

Actually, I did receive the OneTouch at the first link free without having to buy any test strips ever. I just added the DiabetesStore link for an additional option, and because it was in my files with the other one. But I did check and it does look like the first offer only ships to the US--sorry. It was meant more of as a starting point, though, not necessarily a final answer. Are you sure there's no similar offers in France? The reason some companies give away free monitors in this country is because the real money is made on the test strips. There might also be sales on monitors there for the same reason. It's just a thought.

The ZC forum locked the thread I started a few months ago because the advices given by the members were not compliant with the dominant ideology of this forum. My account has been closed.

Sorry to hear that.

Salmon and tuna are OK for me.

If by OK you mean those are not as good as for you as the seafood you find you is very good for you then another option would be to eat the seafood you find is very good for you and just eat fat with it. I wish you luck on finding what works best for you.

[wodgina]

Yeah my account appears to be canceled on ZIOH also

[TylerDurden]

Yeah my account appears to be canceled on ZIOH also

I don't understand why they have to be so draconian. I mean, technically, you believe in at least half of what they preach, that is the main ZC part. And even Stefansson's cited Inuit diet contained some raw animal food, and that's supposed to be their very  inspiration.