Where is the best land for Raw Paleo refugee?

[sabertooth]

This is just a hypothetical, I’ve been pondering lately. My homeland has been infiltrated by legions of Covid Mad Walking Brain Dead Lemmings and as much as I plan on standing my ground and fighting the good fight, it would be prudent to have an escape plan in such times of uncertainty and persecution. Where I live is a liberal leaning city of over 300,000 people, so if things begin to go zombie apocalyptic, there will be a need to relocate asap.

So instead of waiting until the last minute to prepare an escape plan, I would be interested in brainstorming with others about prospect locations that would be ideal for raising sheep semi off grid, near a community of people dedicated to maintaining maximum personal freedom through the duration of the War. A place of low enough population density with enough quality grazing land to actually support a small self sustaining community.

[dariorpl]

I believe safety is in community, you need the right people in your area but also elsewhere, as what's safe today, may not be safe tomorrow. Having options ahead of time so that decisions must not be made in a rush and without proper consideration, is key.

Also keep in mind that it's not only the destination you should worry about, but the voyage.

Since few slaves step off the plantation with any frequency, it's most easy to target the ones who do than to constantly whip the ones staying put like they're supposed to.

[tonyvee]

...
So instead of waiting until the last minute to prepare an escape plan, I would be interested in brainstorming with others about prospect locations that would be ideal for raising sheep semi off grid, near a community of people dedicated to maintaining maximum personal freedom through the duration of the War. A place of low enough population density with enough quality grazing land to actually support a small self sustaining community.

I do not live in US, but if I did, South Dakota looks pretty good regarding the response:

https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_did_not_issue_stay-at-home_orders_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

[MarkR]

I'm also thinking about this. My thoughts so far:
- Depending on your time frame, i do not think there is any country that is safe. The countries that really go against the madness will just have their presidents replaced. So maybe some country or state looks good now, it might not be the case in the (near) future. So i'm more thinking about finding a local area that seems good, regardless of the country/state/province it is in.
- My wife is from Spain, and therefore it would be easier for us to move to Spain, because she i native and i (being Dutch) can just go along with her. Spain is not any better or worse than the Netherlands (where we are now) regarding the madness, Spain does have an enormous amount of empty land. Just like many other countries. So we are thinking of getting a camper and exploring the empty parts. Ground is very cheap there, and therefore we might be able to buy some without any mortgage. If you move away to be more self-sustained, it would be  good to go to a place where the land is cheap(er).
- My assumption is that in small remote communities people will still believe in the madness, but i'm assuming that they will not quickly go running to the police when people do not go along with it all. I would be interested in your thoughts about this. As i'm very doubtful about the back-stabbing nature of people that i do not know. And also about that nature of people i do know, for instance i would not be surprised if my sister in law in the future would report me to some anti 'anti-vaxx' authority.
-  I have been doing some research and experiments in trying regenerative ag with (grazing) animals, and it really seems possible to improve any land to a great extent wrt fertility. So for looking at land that can actually sustain some people, i think with time most land should be able to do it. It will not some (time) investment in the beginning to possible get it to that state. But im willing to get cheaper land now that has to be restored a bit, compared to getting more expensive land. If you do not take care of it properly, you will deplete the fertility over time anyway. So you will have to learn proper management in any case. I read that 5 acres, ~2ha, should be enough for a family to be completely self sustained (that is included tons of vegetables that many people here will most likely not need for themselves).
- I will not go to any different continent, both our families are in Europe, and i do not want to risk not being able to fly anymore in the future. ( i saw some governmental plans of the UK a while back where they were discussing closing almost all airports in the UK for climate reasons). Staying in Europe, it will be always possible to visit, even if it is by foot.
- I'm trying not to have the 'undead/sheep/zombie apocalypse' dictate my actions. I have realised during all this craziness that family, good food and nature are most important. And im trying to change my life now more in that way. Moving to a remote place in nature to homestead is just something that seems like a good thing to do, whether there is complete madness in the rest of the world or not.
- Related to the above point, i think that if you wait for the day of the apocalypse to start with acting, you will be very (to) late. That is why i want to move ASAP. My wife is finishing some studies here now, and after that i would really want to make serious steps to move and be more self-sufficient. It will take many years to develop your homestead and communities before you are self sufficient.
- I'm assuming that there will be no apocalypse, no specific date where everything really goes to shit. Everything will just get worse and worse, but most people will go along with it. They will just accept that their lives are getting worse and worse. The people in power are to smart to have an apocalypse, because that would mean that the entire system will collapse. I would think that the people in power would not want that to happen, because they are pretty happy with this system i guess. If anybody has any theories on why everything will crumble, please share them. I'm curious about this.

Please share your thoughts on my thoughts =)

[smokeyquartz]

If I didn't have family in Pennsylvania I would move to NH.  Their state rep Mike Sylvia is proposing succession from the Union due to it's tyrannical behavior.  I no longer salute the federal flag either. It means tyrrany, imperialism, and corporate feudalism over Americans.

[sabertooth]

I believe safety is in community, you need the right people in your area but also elsewhere, as what's safe today, may not be safe tomorrow. Having options ahead of time so that decisions must not be made in a rush and without proper consideration, is key.

Also keep in mind that it's not only the destination you should worry about, but the voyage.

Since few slaves step off the plantation with any frequency, it's most easy to target the ones who do than to constantly whip the ones staying put like they're supposed to.

I have the voyager spirit and know very well this life is a journey; and im somewhat content being agnostic on the question Determinism Vs Free Will as the guiding forces of fate and destiny. Not knowing what the future holds and embracing the uncertainty of ones decisions is part of the grace of lifes mystery. There is a balance I seek between safety and freedom; adventure and comfort; community and solitude. I was fairly content with the local community pre 2018, but post covid the slave mentality has come over the land like a tidal wave and I see how it could be signaling me to consider an exodus. Though its obviously a global phenomenon, there still must be pockets of refuge dispersed throughout the various lands of the once free nations.

I do not live in US, but if I did, South Dakota looks pretty good regarding the response:

https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_did_not_issue_stay-at-home_orders_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020

My Mother was born in South Dakota and my Grandmother claims moving there was the worst decision ion her life. When I visited it seemed a very harsh land with very harsh people in small towns surrounded by the barren desolate landscapes of the Badlands.

- I'm assuming that there will be no apocalypse, no specific date where everything really goes to shit. Everything will just get worse and worse, but most people will go along with it. They will just accept that their lives are getting worse and worse. The people in power are to smart to have an apocalypse, because that would mean that the entire system will collapse. I would think that the people in power would not want that to happen, because they are pretty happy with this system i guess. If anybody has any theories on why everything will crumble, please share them. I'm curious about this.

Please share your thoughts on my thoughts =)

“Ours is essentially a tragic age, so we refuse to take it tragically. The cataclysm has happened, we are among the ruins, we start to build up new little habitats, to have new little hopes. It is rather hard work: there is now no smooth road into the future: but we go round, or scramble over the obstacles. We’ve got to live, no matter how many skies have fallen.”  D H Lawrence

Each Generation has to face its apocalypse as well as its renaissance . Systems rise and fall outside of the best laid plans of mice and men. Im not sure if there is a human will on top controlling the flow of events. I tend to feel that there are impersonal forces and higher powers at work in guiding the unfolding of evolving systems that work on levels beyond the notions of human hierarchical power schemes. This life is a collaborative effort and each of us has influence over and are influenced by the other. Part of the dance of Kali, wheel of existence and the illusions of Maya are there to trick us into handing over our divine power to the imps, dominating and trickster spirits. These incessant struggles for power and control; through cycles of epic conflict and collaboration; and the taking on of the various roles; our world is created and evolved. The constant conflict and struggle is just as much of a necessity to the act of creation as is the tranquility, beauty, and Peace. Frustrations arise when we try to place human morals and judgment upon the forces of nature, as well as projecting our own feelings upon others. This frustrations and projections are also a vital part of the dance, and it motivates the drives and inspires individual beings into taking actions which further perpetuate the cycles of living and dying.

If I didn't have family in Pennsylvania I would move to NH.  Their state rep Mike Sylvia is proposing succession from the Union due to it's tyrannical behavior.  I no longer salute the federal flag either. It means tyranny, imperialism, and corporate feudalism over Americans.

I remember after the 911 false flag I renounced material possession and denounced US imperialism and lived like a vagabond for over a year, before reconciling with the Empire. Its a damn complicated topic, on the one hand the US Empire has stabilized much of the world after WW2 and has somewhat kept other authoritative regimes from running entirely amok, while at the same time its been involved in the subjugation abuse and murder of innocent people. There is no easy answer to the question of how nations should justly wield their power or to what means are justified to secure the general welfare? Or who is to say what the General welfare Means? These conflicts are also an eternal part of the divine comedy and tragedy of life and are destined to play out within each of the lives of the children of earth, as each of us pursues our own multifaceted objectives.

https://vimeo.com/327923084

[jessica]

You can come out here and help me out building fences so I can raise sheep again.  I have a lot of fruit trees that need to be planted and acres that could be gardened.  There is good hunting, tons of turkeys and deer.  I would like to start selectively logging our property for firewood.  We have so many dead standing trees, a lot make great habitat but we could definitely stand to take down a few and process to firewood to make money.  We have 122 acres plus 2 acre homestead.

[smokeyquartz]

The system is already collapsing (in the US).

We've been primed to remain helpless and dependent by learning useless things from age 3 to age 25 in "schools" that "help" us acclimate to the world.

The other day I read an article about the top items that will increase in price in the grocery store in 2022.  Those items were:  beef, chicken, eggs, vegetables.

What is left to eat?  Tree bark?  Grass?

If we were self-sufficient and raising our own food, we would not even need a "supply chain".  We would already be supplying ourselves!

Modern civilization simply trains us to be good slaves for employers so that we are dependent on earning tokens to purchase what we should already know how to freely obtain for ourselves.  Backwards. 

If I were to be have kids, they would only be homeschooled and no college whatsoever.

We're the real woke ones.

[sabertooth]

You can come out here and help me out building fences so I can raise sheep again.  I have a lot of fruit trees that need to be planted and acres that could be gardened.  There is good hunting, tons of turkeys and deer.  I would like to start selectively logging our property for firewood.  We have so many dead standing trees, a lot make great habitat but we could definitely stand to take down a few and process to firewood to make money.  We have 122 acres plus 2 acre homestead.

What state do you live in? If my next vacation takes me to somewhere close , I could stop by to visit and discuss future prospects for the homestead.

The system is already collapsing (in the US).

The US system has collapsed before, during the great depression, and yet life went on. My grandmother was born in 1937 and raised poor as poor could be in a log cabin built in a mountain holler. Her Parents were subsistence farmers, hunters and moonshiners; she never seen an automobile until she was 5 years old. Without any outside access to the world, she grew up never knowing how poor they were until growing up and moving into the city.

As impractical and full of hardship as it may seem, with a degree of hard work and sacrifice, it is theoretical possible to return to more humble ways of living and being content. I did not follow that path when my children were born, largely because the childrens mother couldn't rough it. Now I am dreaming about finding a balanced middle ground, where I could live and work in Zion part time, while having a place of refuge to retreat to. If Im blessed enough to live long, then one day I hope to find my pasture to homestead and teach the grandchildren the ancient ways.

[aco]

In earlier times, let’s say ww2, if people were lucky, they could flee from war to countries that were unaffected or almost unaffected by  war and insanity. Nowadays there are almost no countries unaffected by the mandates, plandemic, rising prices etc... I don’t know, it seems like fleeing somewhere is a short term solution nowadays. If it all continues the same way then I’m not sure if small countryside communities will stay untouched.

[MarkR]

In earlier times, let’s say ww2, if people were lucky, they could flee from war to countries that were unaffected or almost unaffected by  war and insanity. Nowadays there are almost no countries unaffected by the mandates, plandemic, rising prices etc... I don’t know, it seems like fleeing somewhere is a short term solution nowadays. If it all continues the same way then I’m not sure if small countryside communities will stay untouched.

I agree that this is worldwide. But being self sufficient will provide you with everything you need. So you do not care about rising prices, or QR codes that you need to go to the supermarket/pub/whatever. You will not be dependent on extremely fragile supply chains etc.

The only thing you might not be save from is a worldwide man-hunt for un-vaxxed people or something like that. I personally do not think that is likely to happen. If the slave people in the big cities just go along, who cares about some folks on the fringes.

In the end you have to find something that you like doing, so that you can enjoy your experience on this earth to the fullest until you die. I do not see moving to a more natural area and homesteading as something i do just to survive. I think it will be an amazing and healthy/happy life and really look forward to it. Im not fleeing away from the madness of civilisation, i'm going forward to a more natural life.

[MarkR]

The US system has collapsed before, during the great depression, and yet life went on. My grandmother was born in 1937 and raised poor as poor could be in a log cabin built in a mountain holler. Her Parents were subsistence farmers, hunters and moonshiners; she never seen an automobile until she was 5 years old. Without any outside access to the world, she grew up never knowing how poor they were until growing up and moving into the city.

Did you grandmam have a good life, according to her? Not seeing a car your entire life does not say anything about being happy. And moving to the city would, in my opinion, not really be a step forward.

[sabertooth]

Did you grandmam have a good life, according to her? Not seeing a car your entire life does not say anything about being happy. And moving to the city would, in my opinion, not really be a step forward.

The highlight of her week would be to walk with her brother down the train tracks with a dime, to buy a moon pie at the local store, then walk back to the cabin. Simplicity isnt necessarily happiness but I believe being raised in a humble environment can be a good foundation. If you start out with a humble origin, raised without a technological cocoon, then you are so much more capable of appreciating all the wonder the technology hive has to offer. Children who are born directly into the womb of metropolis, have no experience to act as contrast, and so are incapable of feeling the wonder, nor are they able to wander back and forth between the rustic and progressive worlds.

My Grandmother having lived during many eras during her own lifetime, and experienced many ways of life, was able to be equally happy in a backwoods cabin as in a high rise penthouse.

[jessica]

I am in jospehine county, southern Oregon.  really mild climate here. a lot of water, hot summers, wet short winters, pretty easy going, mostly conservative, 2 hr drive to the ocean for easy crabbing in the winter, rivers with abundant salmon, year round grass for grazing animals, easy to grow most anything.

[jessica]

I agree with aco there are not many places untouched...

[dariorpl]

If Im blessed enough to live long, then one day I hope to find my pasture to homestead and teach the grandchildren the ancient ways.

I plan on starting such a pasture ranch in Argentina soon. If you wanted to, you could join and be a partner, else I could just let you know once we are up and running and taking guests/workers

All others who are interested can also let me know either here or by PM. If I don't reply, it's because I didn't see your message.