PaleoPhil's Journal

[PaleoPhil]

Phil I'm still looking for you to show me where lots of people on vlc are being hurt??  You're certainly in the minority here on this forum, if your troubles are due to vlc.

At least as far as ZC goes, it looks like Tyler answered your question pretty well back in 2009, Van:

I am not suggesting that zero-carb is automatically a disaster for everyone. What concerns me, though, is this:- most Arctic tribes do eat berries in summer, even if they eat practically 99-100% meats, raw or cooked, at other times. They , presumably, also eat the fermented stomach-contents(ie plant-matter) of the animal-carcasses they cut up. So, 100% carnivorous diet for life, for humans, may be  rarer than expected.

Plus, a lot of people do very badly on zero-carb, raw or otherwise, judging from reports of RPDers. I'm not the only one. Though, I'll grant that the overwhelming majority of people do better on raw,low-carb(<35%) than raw, high-carb(like Instincto)(80%+ raw plant-foods).

While there are individual differences in adaptation or non-adaptation to zero-carb, the evidence re loss of physical performance is pretty much across the board - I'm assuming you do low-level exercise so don't notice much difference? Certainly, I (and a number of raw athletes on other groups) have noticed a distinct, massive drop in physical performance when cutting out all carbs from the diet, such as having no endurance or losing physical strength. Plus most photos of long-term zero-carbers show them to be rather too light of weight and not very muscular(indeed same happens to me when I've been extremely VLC or 0 carb) , requiring quite some time to recover from very harsh exercise etc..  This is in stark contrast to the widely reported massive physical attributes/exercise-levels of Palaeo tribespeople, (re evidence of bones), which seems to imply, IMO, that these Cro-Magnon  must have had some carbs in their diet. To date, it has been pointed out that no modern athlete nowadays follow a genuine zero-carb diet, which rather proves things. ....

... Re zero-carb:- What gets me re this is the notion of needing weeks or months to get any of the supposed benefits of zero-carb. When I first started the raw ZC diet, I was told to expect a few weeks(what Stefansson said), now it's several months or years if one believes the claims.Plus, if one so much as backslides, one has to go through the whole process all over again(though perhaps at a reduced rate). And for me, anything more than 6 weeks carb-free is avery dangerous.

. I'd imagine that an Inuit bred on a near-zero-carb diet since birth would not only be much less likely to get negative effects from eating any berries in the summer but they would be better placed re epigenetics etc. to
hunt etc. while on zero-carb. But it does seem a bit of an effort to wait for most of a lifetime to get the equivalent benefits that one can get on lc or vlc.

Condemning ZC is a step in the right direction. Thanks, Iguana, for pointing us to those comments.

Tyler's comments match up pretty well with what I've been seeing more and more from those who severely restricted carbs for long periods.

BTW, I think 35% carbs figure that was mentioned, and probably even somewhat lower, is probably pretty safe (for example, Paul Jaminet recommended around 600 calories from carbs, which is just under 25% of a 2500 calories/day diet, here http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet and he even suggested alternative ways to do ketogenic dieting here http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/02/ketogenic-diets-i-ways-to-make-a-diet-ketogenic that don't involve severe carb restriction), but it's just a guess, and it likely also depends on the quality of those carbs, such as whether they contain enough prebiotics like resistant starch, which is highest in raw foods.

For more examples of problems encountered by ZCers and VLCers at this forum, as well as links to reports elsewhere about (mostly cooked) VLC problems and resistant starch success stories, I refer people to the thread on the topic: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/zero-carb-and-vlcketogenic-a-lethal-recipe-for-disaster

[TylerDurden]

Err, van, ignore this rubbish. If you read the actual data I provided and PP quoted, you will see that I was condemning only RZC diets at the time - I was not remotely condeming RVLC diets  which I have always found to work fine for me and most others. Plus, I have since then been forced to come to the conclusion that some RZCers actually do fine even on RZC diets, though I am mystified as to what they have to have in order for their diet to work, while my RZC efforts were disastrous.

[PaleoPhil]

Err, van, ignore this rubbish. If you read the actual data I provided and PP quoted, you will see that I was condemning only RZC diets at the time

Err, that's what I wrote, ZC. I bolded it so you can see it better.

[PaleoPhil]

Feeling particularly fantastic this evening. Plenty of energy at the end of the day. No muscle tension. The only difference I can recall today is that I consumed some of my favorite source of resistant and digestible starch at every meal, not just at night or at night and the morning. This source would likely be controversial in this forum, and these are early results that are too soon to draw conclusions from, so PM me if you're curious about it.

I also noticed that my night vision and myopia seem to be better than they have been in a long time. Fingers crossed that this is not just random coincidence.

Most folks seem to be looking for overnight cures. Even if RS is the cause of this latest improvement, I have been experimenting with RS for months and am just recently getting this additional uptick in benefit, so don't expect instant cures from RS.

[van]

Yes, I imagine the colonies of bacteria, good and bad ones, are still sorting themselves out, as well as your  body learning what to do with their poop...

[Sorentus]

So I assume RS has been very helpful for regular bowel movement? I know you said ZC or VLC caused constipation, I wonder what has helped  you the most(food/habits or supplements) to ensure regularity throughout the years.

[PaleoPhil]

@Van, Yeah, I suspect the same thing, that it can take a lot of time to reverse a lifetime of gut dysbiosis.

@Sorentus, RS has been more helpful with feeling good, steady energy throughout the day, less muscle tension and fatigue even after a week of desk work, much better blood glucose readings, increased warmth, mildly improved vision, and so on. Others reported rapid improvement in constipation, but they didn't have a lifetime history beginning with poor gut bacteria inherited from their mothers like I did.

[PaleoPhil]

I didn't notice any additional benefit from the other supplements recommended for the MTHFR genetic mutation beyond the P5P I had already been taking. I've been getting much more benefit from resistant starch, and on days I consume sufficient RS I have been able to reduce my P5P dose and still have dream recall most nights and feel good.

I don't want to get into a debate over the following, so I'll just share it in my journal in case anyone is interested:

Hot Thermogenesis (HT):

You've probably heard of cold thermogenesis (CT) from Jack Kruse or others. You may not have heard about hot thermogenesis (or a factor that may be at play in both called hormesis). A 2012 study found that hot water therapy reduces body fat:

Effects of a comprehensive intervention program, including hot bathing, on overweight adults: a randomized controlled trial. Geriatr Gerontol Int. 2013 Jul;13(3):638-45. doi: 10.1111/j.1447-0594.2012.00955.x. Epub 2012 Oct 24. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23095006

Jack Kruse acknowledged that he uses hot water, not just cold water, in his hot tub:

21 Questions with Dr. Jack Kruse
http://jackkruse.com/media/21-questions-with-dr-jack-kruse
First posted on 5/25/13, according to the WayBackMachine http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://jackkruse.com/media/21-questions-with-dr-jack-kruse
Q: When you have 30 minutes of free-time, how do you spend it?
A: I like to sit by the fire place and think.  There’s something about a warm fire that helps me relax.  Sometimes I just go for a soak in the hot tub, cold or hot water will do.

Temperature of your Hot Tub
Discussion in 'Ask Jack' started by RobH, Feb 17, 2014.
http://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/temperature-of-your-hot-tub.9810

Jack,

You've mentioned spending countless hours in your Hot Tub while in Nashville. I also know you use the Fournier Effect to good effect (warm below, cold above to increase current flow)

What temperature did you keep your hot tub at? Were you actually heating it, or just letting it settle to environmental temps?

Just curious.

Jack Kruse
Administrator
Depends on season.....but right now 102

Matt Stone even made an interesting argument for HT being superior to CT:
Hot-water vs cold-water thermogenesis

I find I benefit from utilizing reasonable amounts of both hot and cold therapy. I found that resistant starch actually did more than anything to raise my body temperature longer-term.

[PaleoPhil]

Recent Iodine Warnings:

A couple people warned against taking too much iodine (such as more than 0.5 mg/day) recently. Not much explanatory detail was provided and I've already expressed qualms about high doses of iodine, so I'll just post this in my journal for now in case anyone's interested and for possible future reference.

Padmaja Doniparthi, MD warned to keep iodine intake moderate because it displaces other metals, according to Jimmy Moore, who saw Doniparthi say this in a presentation at The American Society of Bariatric Physicians Spring 2014 Conference: Diagnosis to Treatment—Recognizing Obesity as a Disease
http://bariatrictimes.com/the-american-society-of-bariatric-physicians-spring-2014-conference-diagnosis-to-treatment-recognizing-obesity-as-a-disease

Ray Peat warned that taking above 0.5 mg / day of iodine taken chronically can cause thyroid dysfunction, such as hypothyroid. He has also warned that VLC diets can cause hypothyroid, so if correct then doing both would presumably risk a double-whammy.
Starting around 11:06 in part 2 of this podcast - http://oneradionetwork.com/health/dr-ray-peat-ph-d-answering-a-plethora-of-questions-regarding-health-diet-and-nutrition-january-1-2014 -

[LePatron7]

Recent Iodine Warnings:

Recent raw milk dangers - http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/consumers/ucm079516.htm

Raw fish dangers - http://abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=7847413

Dangers of raw meat - http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/83f3fe0d-636e-4025-8646-a06c1e3d1c90/How_Temperatures_Affect_Food.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

I suppose it depends who your source of information is. I suppose it also depends on how knowledgeable the person is on said subject. While one person may say raw milk is dangerous, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. While someone might say raw meat is dangerous, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary.

While one might say more than the RDA of iodine is dangerous, there's a lot of information to the contrary. When people make such claims a lot of times they're uninformed and don't have all the answers. Just like you, or anyone else on this forum, who when mentioning a raw diet gets told of the dangers.

To really get a good idea of whether something is beneficial or harmful, you need to look at opposing viewpoints. Therefore, before making a truly informed decision, you'd have to also look at the work of practitioners (like Dr. Brownstein) who use iodine in their practices and also those claiming it's dangerous.

In short, Dr. Brownstein has a great track record using iodine to treat thyroid conditions - which directly contradicts Ray Peat's view. Also, many, many people use iodine in large doses and it helps them.

Iodine does displace metals, and it's an expected part of the iodine protocol. Dr. Brownstein has multiple videos on youtube, some of which discuss how iodine is supposed to displace heavy metals, fluoride, and also bromide. Heavy metals, fluoride, and bromide being things that aren't wanted in the body. The recommendation is start low and slow, and use the iodine protocol as recommended.

[Iguana]

Isn’t it again a matter of right dosing, which varies with particular current and variable needs of each individual?

If the substance is chemically pure, isolated of the other compounds present in all unprocessed foods, a state not found at all in nature, then the body is facing something never encountered by living organisms in billions years of evolution. Thus, it is unable to correctly adjust the dose. 

[LePatron7]

Isn’t it again a matter of right dosing, which varies with particular current and variable needs of each individual?

If the substance is chemically pure, isolated of the other compounds present in all unprocessed foods, a state not found at all in nature, then the body is facing something never encountered by living organisms in billions years of evolution. Thus, it is unable to correctly adjust the dose.

Sure, needs are variable per the individual. But the "pure substance," and "not something found in nature" is completely your argument based on your instincto views. Which is ok. I respect your views on diet, and encourage you, and everyone else, to practice what works for them, despite how different and "unhealthy" it may be viewed by different members.

I personally really like the iodine protocol. It's nice going to sleep and having dreams, and waking up and remembering them. That's something I've never had - before RPD, during RPD w/o supplements, during RPD w/ some supplements (niacin, b complex), and even before getting my supplement regimen in order.

Anyway, there's an iodine thread somewhere on the forum where this conversation can be continued. I really don't want to debate endlessly with you on why supplements (any of them) are bad. We've been there, and we all know such a discussion won't go anywhere.

[Iguana]

Sure, needs are variable per the individual. But the "pure substance," and "not something found in nature" is completely your argument based on your instincto views.

Absolutely not. It's not specially an "instincto view", but a very basic chemistry / biochemistry fact that I became aware of by reading Günther Schwab in 1964.

OK, it should be argued about in the relevant thread.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, DaBoss, I had already seen higher dose iodine (more than 500mcg/day) and Dr. Brownstein strongly and extensively promoted in this forum. What I hadn't seen was much in the way of alternative viewpoints, which I noted here in my journal for future reference for myself and in case anyone else is interested in checking out other viewpoints. I'm not making any claims about who is right and I'm not looking to debate, which is part of why I put it here.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to the use of supplements and use iodine and other supplements myself.

In the podcast, Peat said he has a list of about 70 articles from around the world that suggest that 500mcg/day or more of iodine chronically over many years has been linked to higher rates of thyroid disease, such as thyroid cancer.

Here's an excerpt from a Peat interview article I found today, for any who are interested and for my notes:

The Myth of Iodine Deficiency: An Interview with Dr. Ray Peat
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/10/12/the-myth-of-iodine-deficiency-an-interview-with-dr-ray-peat/comment-page-1/

Is iodine supplementation safe and, if not, is there a safe amount of supplemental iodine?

Dr. Peat: “A dosage of 150 mcg (micrograms, not milligrams, e.g., ug not mg) is a safe amount of iodine. There are excellent references describing the effect of a moderate iodine excess (even below a milligram per day) on the thyroid. An iodine deficiency can cause hypothyroidism (rare now), but so can an excess. Iodine deficiency is an unusual cause of hypothyroidism, except in a few places, like the mountains of Mexico and China, and the Andes.

“Most goiters now are from estrogen-like effects, but they used to be from iodine deficiency. Chronic excess iodine tends to cause thyroiditis, regardless of the gland’s size. The amounts used by Abraham and Flechas are much larger than this — very toxic doses, enough to cause severe thyroid problems.”

Is the Iodine Test Kit (from Dr. Abraham) valid and does it reveal thyroid deficiency?

“Guy Abraham and some of his followers claim that an iodine deficiency can be shown by the quick disappearance of a spot of iodine painted on the skin. The skin test of iodine deficiency is completely unscientific. Iodine is converted to colorless iodide by reductants, including vitamin C, glutathione, and thiosulphate. “G. Abraham’s Iodine Test Kit contains iodine overdose pills. The test is completely irrational. It implies that the body should be saturated with iodine.” ...

---

I've noticed enough improvement in a couple things from mineral water over some months now that it seems worth noting. I've noticed that my teeth feel cleaner when I consume more sparkling mineral water (like Gerolsteiner, Perrier, Perugina or Saratoga) and that at times I feel the same muscle-relaxation I get from resistant starch.

[PaleoPhil]

Correction: S. Pellegrino, not Perugina.

[PaleoPhil]

“challenging our beliefs on a regular basis is the only way to avoid getting caught up in the confirmation bias”
  - Belle Beth Cooper, http://blog.bufferapp.com/thinking-mistakes-8-common-mistakes-in-how-we-think-and-how-to-avoid-them

[PaleoPhil]

Journal update:
(These are not intended as debating points, just trying to share both the bad and the good of my experience.)

Starting with the positive, probably the two most beneficial elements I changed in my diet in recent years were increasing my intake of prebiotic foods--especially those rich in resistant starch (though inulin-rich jicama has been another notably beneficial food)--and sparkling mineral water. I feel particularly great after I drink a combo of sparkling mineral water plus raw mung bean starch. Of course, the latter won't be regarded as "Paleo" here, but it appears to help quite a bit and I haven't noted any negative effects after months of using it intermittently in reasonable amounts (not every day or to excess).

RS appears to have improved my metabolism, based on my improved blood sugar readings, consistently higher body temperatures (reaching what is regarded as an ideal range by Ray Peat and others), improved energy, decreased muscle tension, somewhat improved glucose tolerance, and overall reduction of VLC torpor. I knew that my extremely poor tolerance of glucose was not healthy or natural and for some time I had been looking for a way to improve it. RS has worked better than anything else so far. I'm also trying to gradually increase my carb intake, with raw and retrograde starch appearing to be my best tolerated, especially raw (which fits nicely with raw and mostly-raw Paleo and the accumulating scientific research that finds raw starchy foods as part of the human and pre-human diet for millions of years).

---

It became increasingly clear that neither raw Paleo nor any of the other therapies recommended online was going to resolve my neck cyst that I've mentioned in the past. The growth rate actually appeared to increase. It seems like resistant starch has helped slow the growth back down again, maybe even stopped it, but not reversed it.

It also seems to help to limit consumption of easily-digested glucose and avoid even occasional dalliances with coffee or alcohol. I've seen enough other LC Paleo dieters report drinking coffee or alcohol and sometimes rave about how much they love or need coffee or can't give up alcohol, or report developing increasing cravings or low tolerance, that it seems like more than coincidence. My tolerance for glucose, coffee and alcohol seemed to gradually go down the longer I stayed VLC, even as my cravings for them gradually increased, which had become a sort of self-reinforcing loop with regards to glucose. RS seems to have improved the tolerance some, but not completely and since nothing seems to reduce the lesion, I got it checked out and surgery scheduled. The surgeon thinks it's likely a lipoma (fatty cyst), which is a type that even Ray Peat thinks just has to be removed and can't be treated (at least not the large type that I have).

Another concerning thing was that it seemed like the longer I stayed VLC, the more the craving for alcohol and coffee increased. I also noticed this (re: alcohol) in someone else who I had recommended Paleo to and favors meats over plants. The cravings diminished after I added resistant starch back into my diet and built up to therapeutic levels.

Coincidentally, Don Matesz said he developed lipomas while VLC (http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/06/farewell-to-paleo.html), though his were  a type called xanthomas, that are smaller and look different than mine. Xanthomas can apparently reverse and he reported that his did when he added carby plant foods back into his diet. Another interesting similarity is that both of our total cholesterol levels rose dramatically (including my LDL--I don't know if Don's did, but my guess would be that it did) after some time on high-fat VLC, but that is of course dismissed as not a problem by VLC supporters, and many of them even claim it is a good thing. Less extreme LCers like Paul Jaminet and Chris Kresser have a different view, saying that high and rising LDL can be a sign of underlying problems, even if not such a terrible thing in and of itself. I increasingly came to suspect that they are closer to the truth on that. I started to pay more attention to my rising LDL when my workplace started providing free blood tests and it continued to rise to close to the maximum safe level that Paul Jaminet reports.

The only other treatment I found on the Internet that has some research showing efficacy for the larger type of lipoma I have is experimental and involves injecting collagenase. I tried an enzyme supplement that contains collagenase, but that also doesn't appear to reduce the lesion. It will be nice to be rid of it.

There is now massive and growing amounts of info on the Internet supporting chronic VLC/ketogenic diets, with new bloggers and books coming out it seems like every day and some prominent public figures joining the bandwagon. It's ironic that at the same time there's a growing counter-shift within the Paleosphere toward recognizing that there are downsides to doing VLC/keto for too long, especially if it involves very low intakes of prebiotic foods.

Of course, it is possible to overdo anything (including butyrate -- see the comments here http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2013/12/crowd-sourced-science-n4.html), so I mix up my food sources of RS and also still have days where I eat little to no RS or starch, giving my GI microbes a workout of sorts, instead of coddling them or giving them chronically the same thing. Diversity appears to be important with prebiotics, providing synergy effects and promoting a more diverse microbiota, which is reportedly healthy for not just tree jungles, but also our gut jungles.

The rise in beef and egg prices has accelerated, which is another incentive for me to try to develop increased tolerance for more plant foods.

FWIW, Based on my experience, that of many others I've seen report (most of them not rawists, though), and accumulating scientific research, it seems like "Paleo" has been too focused on avoiding foods that trigger symptoms and not enough on feeding the good gut bacteria that can help minimize those symptoms, at least up until 2013 (when prebiotics and probiotics started getting discussed more in some Paleo/ancestral cyber circles). 

For me 3 of the keys that helped me see this over the years were the Old Friends Hypothesis, prebiotics (especially resistant starch, which I hadn't seen much discussion of or personal reports from trying before 2012, even though the scientific research on it goes back 3 decades), and the accumulating scientific evidence of starchy food consumption by Stone Age and modern hunter gatherers (even Neanderthals!).

As always, YMMV.

[PaleoPhil]

Journal update (not debating points):

The removed cyst turned out to be a simple, benign, common follicular cyst. The Internet remedies at Curezone and elsewhere that were claimed to work with such a cyst didn't. In retrospect, I tried them for too long. I would have been better off not putting off surgical removal.

My blood glucose modulation continues to improve since adding in more RS and other prebiotics into my diet, which in turn has gradually enabled me to re-introduce more raw Paleo carby whole foods, though I'm still probably relatively LC overall, depending on your definition of that. I'm guessing that I'm currently at around 20+% carbs, which some gurus that are considered "LC" by many have OK'd, such as Dr. Ron Rosedale, Mark Sisson and Paul Jaminet (20% is actually on the low end of the long-term maintenance spectrum recommended by Sisson and Jaminet). I'm not making any claims as to the ideal carb % for anyone. I don't know what I'll end up at. I'm more focused on what produces the best results for my overall health and well being than targeting any specific percentage.

Here's a comparison of my latest BG test vs. some past similar tests that I noted before increasing RS around June of 2013:

9/9/12
Before 2 tbsps raw honey: 90 mg/dl
1 hr after: 164

10/29/12
BG before 2 tbsps honey: 74 mg/dl
1 hour after 78 mg/dl
(This one was an unusual result--the BG meter results can sometimes differ rather significantly within minutes, and I have tried using different meters, so I focus more on overall trends; this one was particularly odd, so maybe it was a BG meter error)

11.3.12
BG before 2 TBSPs raw Honey: 88 mg/dl
1 hr after: 159
2 hrs after: 106

11/4/12
BG before 2 TBSP raw honey: 90 mg/dl
1 hr after: 148

5/25/14
Before 2 tbsps Raw honey plus 2 cups blueberries: 84 mg/dl
1 hr after: 118 mg/dl

My BG readings can vary widely at times after eating the same foods, and even in the past there were some times where they were good. So time will tell whether the latest figure is representative or not, but the overall trend appears to be continuing to improve. It's not that my BG is always better than it was, but that I'm getting more consistently good results.

[eveheart]

I'm impressed with the improvement in your BG numbers. Good work!

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks, I also found one from 10/29/12 that didn't fit the improving trend. It was a very unusual result for me, so I figured it was a meter error and probably should have retested at the time, but I stuck it in there to show that the results do vary and I look at the overall longer-term trends and whether I'm getting high spikes, rather than focus on the details and short-term results. I also don't test as often and with the same consistent circumstances as Lex did when he was testing. I'm just tracking my progress, rather than trying to prove any hypotheses, like I think Lex was, IIRC.

---

Dave Asprey asked a good skeptical question about RS that I had asked myself - how do we know that RS won't shorten people's lives? I remember reading somewhere that while good bacteria help during one's lifetime, at the end, once they sense that your days are coming to an end, they join the other bacteria in consuming the body and maybe bringing on death quicker. So, who knows, maybe it might be good to have lots of good bacteria for most of one's life, then reduce them toward the end, if longevity is the goal. I haven't found where I saw this, though.

Despite that, Dave is trying to find ways to increase RS in his own diet.

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/124-resistant-starch-revealed-with-richard-nikoley-and-tim-steele-podcast

[PaleoPhil]

Random jottings:

Dr. Gerald Pollack said in this interview that gelatin is akin to structured water and that aspirin is a water structuring agent:

Interview with Dr. Gerald Pollack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRh38KfT8pw&index=77&list=WL

[PaleoPhil]

Journal update and random jottings

My vision is especially good today, having gradually improved over the last week or so. My best guesses for the source(s) of the improvements is(are): resistant starch sources (especially mung bean starch, and also other sources like raw dried semi-ripe plantains and semi-ripe bananas), Primal Defense probiotic, and vitamin A (from a liquid form I apply to my lip to prevent chapping and from food sources like raw liver).

There are also indications that my cellular respiration and carb tolerance continues to gradually improve. For example, in the past while VLC, I noticed a slight increase in warmth when eating some fermented raw honey. Now I notice it from unfermented raw honey too and it's more noticeable--and I'm getting higher readings on the thermometer afterward. Perhaps this also contributes to the improvement in night vision and myopia.

Meat prices continue to rise and several of the meats, bones and animal fats I used to buy are gone from local markets. Thank goodness I learned about the pitfalls of excessively chronic ZC/VLC and eventually found a way to improve my carb tolerance some. I feel for ZCers, some of whom must be taking quite a hit from these prices.

[TylerDurden]

Meat prices continue to rise and several of the meats, bones and animal fats I used to buy are gone from local markets. Thank goodness I learned about the pitfalls of excessively chronic ZC/VLC and eventually found a way to improve my carb tolerance some. I feel for ZCers, some of whom must be taking quite a hit from these prices.

  Disingenuous nonsense. In actual fact, people tend to eat  far fewer amounts if they stick to just raw animal foods. I notice this myself - as soon as my carb-intake goes up, my appetite and food-budget  soars.

[TylerDurden]

if meat-prices are going up, then why would some meats/cuts/organs no longer appear on the market? I recall strongly that, when I was in the UK, that, at the time, many organs or cuts  were not sold because, supposedly,  no one wanted them, but the real reason was that they were so cheap that there was little profit involved. I would assume that if meat-prices went up, then all parts of the animal would become more expensive, and therefore more likely to be sold.

[24isours]

After finding a cheap source of fat, I've been able to lower my monthly food costs to just $157.00 USD per month.