PaleoPhil's Journal

[PaleoPhil]

The pitting, grooves, and rough edges in my teeth, from past diet (possibly acidic and carby plant foods like fruits and fruit juices--because I've noticed that pitting is reported fairly commonly by fruit-heavy vegans/vegetarians on the Web and by one in my personal life) and past nighttime grinding, is almost completely smooth now from my raw carnivore diet. I never knew teeth had this level of regenerative power. Who else here has experienced this?

The gum cream appears to have a minor side effect of some teeth staining, but it seems to be working well to keep my teeth feeling polished.

[PaleoPhil]

I brought beef jerky and pemmican to the Thanksgiving meal, initially just for myself, in case there wasn't enough food there for me to eat, and because I'm not fond of turkey due to it being overly-lean and usually rather dry--which it was--but of course everyone lied and said how great it was. How ironic that the primary food at the first Indian/pilgrim Thanksgiving was lovely venison. When I got there I felt it would be strange to eat my own foods on my own and possibly insulting to the host/chef, so I instead put it out as my contribution to the pre-meal snacks. I didn't expect anyone to eat it, but this way I could snack on it without being too obvious, and I also figured it would be a good test to see if jerky will work at my upcoming employee Christmas pot luck.

Three people tried the jerky and one tried the pemmican. One seemed to like the jerky but the other two said they prefer it with spices. The one who tried the pemmican didn't like it at all and two people thought it looked unappetizing, even when cut up and put in a nice serving bowl.

I'm thinking I'll try spiced jerky for the pot luck, though I've never cared that much for spiced versions I've made in the past. What spices do you folks recommend? Have you ever shared spiced jerky and had multiple people like it?

The host made a big to-do about what foods I couldn't eat, which was considerate but embarrassing.

It's interesting that I found brown turkey meat to be tastier than white, because of the higher fat content and moistness. When I was a kid I preferred brown meat--especially the legs of chicken and turkey (probably in part because the legs were my allotted pieces that I was used to). Then I came to prefer white meat and now I'm back to brown meat again.

[Nicola]

PaleoPhil, may I ask you how long you have been eating raw meat & fat + raw eggs (paleo?)? Do you eat the whole egg and can you compair this between eating cooked egg (and cooked meat)? Other members on the zerocarb forum do not do well with cooked eggs / cream / cheese; a few like Jeff (he does not drink much more than coffee and "some red w.) seem to eat it all - raw or cooked and don't "notice" a thing (never mention poo, gas, bloat).

I still do not "get" the picture - if one is to eat protein (raw or cooked) and fat (raw or cooked) and drink "more water than you feel you need" then how can things not get runny. Delfuego called his discharge runny and find this "normal" but I don't!

Some times I can get on with it but so many people seem to have a different result (most call it detox) of "this healthy diet".

Sorry, but do you do much sport; this must change the picture again...

Nicola

[PaleoPhil]

PaleoPhil, may I ask you how long you have been eating raw meat & fat + raw eggs (paleo?)? Do you eat the whole egg and can you compair this between eating cooked egg (and cooked meat)?

I've been raw carnivore with occasional cheating for almost 4 months now, and partly raw VLC for a while before that.

Yes, I eat lots of whole raw fertilized chicken eggs from a local farm that are sold in the healthfood market, and some quail eggs and once in a while duck eggs. Since quail eggs are wee little things I usually eat a whole package at one go, but rarely buy more than one package per week because they're pricy. Raw eggs taste sweeter, juicier and more flavorful to me than cooked, though I also like the taste of lightly cooked eggs. My least favorite is overdone hardboiled eggs, which I occasionally eat at the cafeteria with cooked bison when I've run out of food at work and am too hungry to wait till I get home--I add olive oil and mix them with the bison to make them palatable.

I find I add weight and feel stronger and more energetic when I eat 2 or 3 large meals a day. I think it's because of my history of mineral deficiencies. Even now if I go too long without red meat I start getting mild potassium (cramping) and probably magnesium (vertigo--I think I've finally figured out that magnesium deficiency was causing my vertigo when I tilted my head too fast--which improved when I went raw carnivore and it has been diminishing to rarely noticeable any more) deficiencies again. Luckily I've been keeping well stocked with raw meat lately and my officemate doesn't mind me eating it (and my other office mate who probably would mind rarely uses the office any more), so I've been able to maintain a fully raw diet most of the time and have been able to eat fully raw meat with suet melted at around 80 degrees F at work instead of jerky with heated 200F tallow.

Other members on the zerocarb forum do not do well with cooked eggs / cream / cheese; a few like Jeff (he does not drink much more than coffee and "some red w.) seem to eat it all - raw or cooked and don't "notice" a thing (never mention poo, gas, bloat).

I find cooked eggs harder to digest, but I don't get as much of the sulphur burps from them as I used to, so I think my digestion is continuing to improve. I prefer raw eggs. It digests very easily and I can't even tell that I've eaten anything, except that I become less hungry. I also like the fact that raw eggs don't make a lot of mess like scrambled eggs do. I like the fattiness of egg yolks. If I run out of suet I eat more eggs until I get more suet.

I still do not "get" the picture - if one is to eat protein (raw or cooked) and fat (raw or cooked) and drink "more water than you feel you need" then how can things not get runny. Delfuego called his discharge runny and find this "normal" but I don't!

Perhaps his discharge may be runny because he's digesting a high percentage of the meat, which is his claim, though I'm not sure. We'll know better the longer more people have been on ZC, RAF and raw carnivore.

I tend much more to constipation than runny bowels, probably because of my history of magnesium deficiency--probably largely from my gluten intolerance. I've had to cut back on bone meal because I think the calcium has been constipating me. I haven't had any diarrhea on raw carnivore except for one morning after I ate raw liver and it apparently affected me for some reason, though it hasn't done that again since (except for getting the same brief stomach upset and mild malaise the next day after eating raw liver another time, but without the diarrhea).

High meat hasn't had any noticeable effect at all on my bowels so far, but this is not particularly surprising, since I can drink an 8 oz glass of flaxseed oil or consume a whole box of probiotic supplements without it having any effect whatsoever on my bowels, whereas other people report getting the runs on much less. What has surprised me a little is I haven't gotten any "high" feeling (mild euphoria) at all from up to 4 or 5 small chunks of high muscle meat or heart, but I do from a couple teaspoons of ground red grassfed meat. So I get a bit of euphoria during and after most meals, since I eat ground red grassfed meat a lot.

Some times I can get on with it but so many people seem to have a different result (most call it detox) of "this healthy diet".

I've only had the two brief episodes of what some might call detox and I'm not sure what caused them (though I did have raw liver the day before on both occasions--but it hasn't caused the problem other times).

Sorry, but do you do much sport; this must change the picture again...

Nicola

Not really, though I walk and briefly sprint to and from work (about half a mile) and walk up and down 3 flights of stairs at work and sometimes walk downtown (which involves going down and then back up a large, steep hill). I prefer incorporating most of my exercise into my routine rather than running around in circles on a track or on a treadmill or driving through traffic to a gym to work out (running tracks and gyms always seemed artificial and strange to me, even before I went Paleo, though I did try it myself at various times from early on, because my father was a physical education professor, coach and athletic director). I bought some snowshoes, so I plan on doing some snowshoeing once we get some snow on the ground.

I used to mostly prefer running around in the woods as a kid, so by taking up a Paleo diet and fishing in the summers and walking more than driving I've basically been returning to my childhood love of natural outdoor living (though I also liked to play basketball and jump around on a trampoline in the gym and play soccer and other games outdoors). I also do calisthenics similar to what others do here and occasional yoga. I'm good at walking and slow long distance running, but poor at sprinting because I've never had much muscle.

[Nicola]

Thanks for you kind words - everybody has a different story

Tom G. posted that he digests raw meat and fat with no problem (on one of the topics on this forum); on zerocarb he posted the following:

I've been trying to eat raw or rare beef as much as I can to see if there is an issue with uncooked meat. The undercooked crab was not part of my plan. I'm not comfortable eating raw chicken, pork, or fish.
post 84 http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2542&page=9

This is why we turn in surcels

Nicola

[PaleoPhil]

This is why we turn in surcels

Well, I wouldn't say I turn in circles, Nicola, but I like the cute grumpy face .

I've been doing rather well on below 40C melted suet, raw ground meats, raw eggs, raw organ meats, raw seafood and mineral water. My main remaining issues have been a returned tendency toward the constipation I had on past diets after early resolution of it by raw carnivore (it's still improved; that is, it's not the full-blown IBS-C with D that it was in the past) and potential concerns given my history of calcium oxalate stones, both of which could be explained in part by my historical tendency toward magnesium deficiency symptoms. I could address both with magnesium supplementation, but that tends to be looked down on here and I'm doing a carnivore experiment right now, so I don't want to resort to plant-sources of magnesium right now.

I'd rather not have to wait for months for the bowel issues to resolve, like Lex apparently did. Poorly-absorbed magnesium oxide works pretty well for me for constipation, whereas magnesium citrate is supposed to be best for calcium oxalate stone prevention. Can anyone here suggest alternatives that might be less controversial here? Are there any acceptable magnesium supplements? I hate to give up what works for me just because it's controversial. The bone meal seems to be constipating me more, probably due to its high calcium content, and the high meats haven't been having any noticeable effect re: constipation or anything else. How much high meat does one have to eat for it to work to end constipation or give euphoria? I've tried up to 5 small chunks at a time so far. I might try raw liver again soon, which sometimes seems to get things moving, though it also seemed to trigger diarrhea once.

After Tom's comments, larrymagee wrote: "I ate only pemmican for 6 weeks. I had nausea and light colored stools for several weeks. These symptoms went away but I still had burping issues up until the end. I think it just takes a while for the body to adapt."

So, much of Larry's problems with pemmican went away after 6 weeks. Luckily, I haven't had any problems at all from my raw pemmican. I digest it extremely easily and don't get any noticeable fat in my stools or discoloration of stools or even burping (I do get sometimes get burping from drinking water--perhaps I'm accidentally gulping down some air with it at times). Maybe it's because I heat my jerky and suet so low or maybe I've adapted well to digesting fats? I still have trouble chewing, swallowing and keeping down straight unmelted raw suet because of the connective tissue and the "musty" flavor. I'm hoping that once I have a heavy duty grinder and grind raw suet together with meat like Lex does, it will make it easier for me to eat without needing to use (below 40C) melting.

I tried some pemmican made by one of the folks at the ZC forum and it tasted burnt to me, probably because I heat both my jerky and suet at very low temps. To some of them, my pemmican might taste undercooked.

[van]

don't know if you've seen my posts regarding mg. in ionic form from the great salt lake,  from Trace mins.  Been using them for around three years now.

[Nicola]

Well I got this PM from Tom (I don't like to hide answers that all help to the picture we are looking for - and may never find )

Hi Nicola. Most of the time I eat beef raw. If we go out for supper, it will be rare. From what I've read, it's reasonably safe to do so. I'm really not sure about other meats. Probably chicken would be ok. I don't know. It's also odd that the one time I eat some undercooked, or raw crab, I had a big problem.
 
  Pemmican for some reason, or a combination of factors causes indigestion for me. I try various different things for a few days, switch it, and compare.
 
  Since I believe pemmican is just a dehydrated steak, I should be able to digest it the same as any raw chunk of beef. What I believe we should be eating, and what actually agrees with my stomach are different things.
 
  If it sounds confusing to you, that is because it is confusing to me as well. In order for something to be true, it must be able to be proven correct. If eating raw is the natural way to eat, it should be able to be done with no problems. The more raw I try to eat, the more problems I have. But, I eat pemmican at the same time as I eat raw. Maybe that's the problem. There are lots of variables.
 
  I post my thoughts to try and find answers that may not really exist. If you are worried, please don't be. When I decide that something is not right, I will change it. All I'm doing right now is trying to find consistancy with what makes sense, to what actually works

So now it seems that only Lex has "no problems" and a normal bowel movement (every day?). I know of other people taking magnesium but to me a healthy diet should not need supplements? I don't see the mineral part in bone meal; I look at it as extra volume in the intestines. Larry has runny stools too so I would not think that he has found "the answer".

With not much movement you may be "missing" some runny stools

Nicola

[PaleoPhil]

I think Tom is right that one needs to find out what works best for oneself. Yes, much of this will probably remain a mystery always. I see science as more of a serious of endless questions than a bunch of final answers. It's not very satisfying, comforting, or practical, I know, so I make my best guesses based upon the available info and try out what seem to be the most likely options.

I've always been prone to constipation, and it had developed into IBS-C with D, so it's actually much improved now. It had even seemed to completely resolve for several weeks for the first time ever during the early period of raw carnivore. However, the reduction in fecal output due ironically to an improvement in my digestion of meat has resulted in a tendency toward constipation again. Lex reported that the body eventually adjusts, but it's an unpleasant transition and I suspect my transition is a bit worse than his was, given my history of Mg deficiency and GI issues. So I'm going back to taking some Mg supplementation again and cutting out the bone meal (which I was trying for dental health) for now.

What I do may not work for you, as your system is likely different from mine. So you may want to keep trying to find what works for you, and don't worry too much if you don't hit it right immediately. It took me about 20 years to figure out that diet was underlying my chronic health issues and then it took about another 5 years to figure out that raw carnivore worked better for me than standard Paleo, and I'm sure there's still a lot I have left to learn.

People's problems with dietary experiments can sometimes be more instructive than their successes. When I experimented with vegetarianism, I can remember being surprised at how ornery and dogmatic a number of the vegetarians seemed to be and at how some of them were taking megadoses of many vitamin supplements. I thought to myself, if vegetarianism supposedly makes you a more peaceful, healthier person, then why do these folks seem so nasty and have to take so many supplements? My own need to take supplements has decreased substantially since starting raw carnivore, so I see that as a positive sign that it's working for me. Time will tell I guess. As I've said before, I actually want to eventually add some foods back into my diet, but I'm trying to keep the variables at a minimum right now.

[William]

Poorly-absorbed magnesium oxide works pretty well for me for constipation, whereas magnesium citrate is supposed to be best for calcium oxalate stone prevention. Can anyone here suggest alternatives that might be less controversial here? Are there any acceptable magnesium supplements?

After years of experimenting by thousands of people. those with heart arrhythmia found that the best absorbed and tolerated form of magnesium is that sold as "Chelazome" (TM) , an amino acid chelate, available here:
http://www.abacohealth.com/index.php/prodid/TRO030 and elsewhere, as long as it is Albion Process it's OK.

There should be enough Mg in the raw meat, so either you are somehow blocking absorption or you are not yet perfect.

After Tom's comments, larrymagee wrote: "I ate only pemmican for 6 weeks. I had nausea and light colored stools for several weeks. These symptoms went away but I still had burping issues up until the end. I think it just takes a while for the body to adapt."

I had been on pemmican only for three months, and well pleased with the splendidly formed turds which were produced regularly though not often (every 3 to 5 days). Then I stupidly ate Christmas dinner, had a stroke, ate nothing for two days, and subsequently noticed pale turds for maybe 10 weeks. (no stools for me - always thought excreting the legs would be painful  )
So the paleness indicates a healing/detox reaction AFAIK. No burping, but I don't anyway, my reaction is and has been musical tummy/melodious gut.

Adaptation looks like a good bet.



 

To some of them, my pemmican might taste undercooked.

Pemmican made with tallow rendered at  170-200°F  doesn't really taste cooked. I think that taste may be of unfiltered connective tissue or the solids that escaped filtering.  I assume that the solids are proteins, and of course grossly overheated, so poisonous to me.

The reason for rendering at that temp is fear of the fat becoming rancid. If you don't make it for long term storage, that reason does not apply.

[PaleoPhil]

There should be enough Mg in the raw meat, so either you are somehow blocking absorption or you are not yet perfect.

Yes, I think it's the latter, as my Mg deficiency symptoms are much reduced over what they used to be. Other than the constipation I only get vertigo, and even that I only appear to get when I've gone nearly a day or longer without eating red meat. My first chronic vertigo developed and got pretty bad when I followed my GI doc's advice and took an artificial Px fiber supplement that it turns out causes electrolyte deficiencies (particularly potassium and Mg for me). Luckily, these deficiencies have been improving dramatically on raw carnivore (even VLC was insufficient), but I still appear to have a little ways to go--and the fecal volume reduction appears to have exacerbated things a bit for the moment (and possibly the bone meal also).

I have responded very well to raw pemmican myself, which was a surprise to me, because I had a lifetime of not liking fat, not digesting it very well and getting gas from fatty meats like sausages--even when they were not heavily spiced.

Pemmican made with tallow rendered at  170-200°F  doesn't really taste cooked. I think that taste may be of unfiltered connective tissue or the solids that escaped filtering.  I assume that the solids are proteins, and of course grossly overheated, so poisonous to me.

The reason for rendering at that temp is fear of the fat becoming rancid. If you don't make it for long term storage, that reason does not apply.

I think she rendered her tallow at much higher temps than that (I was referring to my own usual past practice when I mentioned the 200F tallow) and likely dried her jerky at much higher temps than I do also. The tallow was well filtered, but the pemmican definitely tasted burnt to me. I think she prefers that taste because she also likes to eat her meats well done--and well done meats also taste a little burnt to me at this point. To each their own--I'm not complaining or criticizing, just explaining the differences.

[Nicola]

How do you know that you are constipated - I mean William talkes about 10 weeks; how the hell is that possible?

Perhaps the eggs are not a good thing every day (not paleo)? Perhaps eating more like Lex or Andrew would help you better? I wonder why Tyler sounds as if he never has problems (ex. for eating rice ) - perhaps some see problems when they are not really "the problem"? Perhaps the-bear@thebear.org can tell you more about carnivores and rest...

On the zerocarb forum you wrote in Dan's journal that you are 54 years! I think you meant 45 years?

Nicola

The bear answer to me (I asked why many are having problems with a carivores diet / needing HCI, constipation, runny stooles...)

Ignore
others who complain- send them the rules.
 
A newborn baby can DIGEST MEAT, the only other food besides human
breast meat it can handle.  Meat is SO easy.
 
The answer to those who have 'problems' is:  STOP OBSESSING OVER YOUR FOOD.
 
Or go back to food you are comfortable with.
--

[Nicola]

Have you read Danny's blog - it might be a help to learn from him, his problems and the answers (also from Lex, Delfuego...)

http://www.carnivorehealth.com/main/2009/12/6/one-meal-a-day-romanticism.html#comments

Nicola

[William]

How do you know that you are constipated - I mean William talks about 10 weeks; how the hell is that possible?

It is not possible. I take 3 to 5 days.
The 10 weeks was for something else.

I wonder why Tyler sounds as if he never has problems (ex. for eating rice ) - perhaps some see problems when they are not really "the problem"? Perhaps the-bear@thebear.org can tell you more about carnivores and rest...

TD never has problems because he is perfect. Um, that is, except for his obsessions with tallow, and mercury in fish - there may be another, I forget (that's because I'm not perfect. Yet )

The bear answer to me (I asked why many are having problems with a carivores diet / needing HCI, constipation, runny stooles...)

Ignore
others who complain- send them the rules.
 
A newborn baby can DIGEST MEAT, the only other food besides human
breast meat it can handle.  Meat is SO easy.
 
The answer to those who have 'problems' is:  STOP OBSESSING OVER YOUR FOOD.
 
Or go back to food you are comfortable with.
--

Bear gave you a good answer, except for the usual exception of the Unspeakable Forbidden Knowledge, to wit: fat.

[PaleoPhil]

Perhaps the eggs are not a good thing every day (not paleo)? Perhaps eating more like Lex or Andrew would help you better? ....

Perhaps, but my experience has been that I do fine eating them. I've never had the negative symptoms from raw eggs that Tyler and others reported--even when I tried eating 8 at once (on top of 4 I had earlier that same day).

The only way you'll find out for sure is to find out what works for you. I can't tell you what to eat, because I don't know what you do best on.

[PaleoPhil]

...On the zerocarb forum you wrote in Dan's journal that you are 54 years! I think you meant 45 years?

Nicola

The bear answer to me (I asked why many are having problems with a carivores diet / needing HCI, constipation, runny stooles...)
...

I found the post referencing age 54 and it is one of Phil H's, not mine (you can see it here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2747&pid=167894#pid167894).

When you get the runs have you tried something calcium-rich like bone meal?

[Nicola]

I found the post referencing age 54 and it is one of Phil H's, not mine (you can see it here: http://forum.zeroinginonhealth.com/showthread.php?tid=2747&pid=167894#pid167894).

When you get the runs have you tried something calcium-rich like bone meal?

Sorry, I thought of Phil H. when I was out swimming - I got you two mixed up!

I am a bit mad with this water in my bowel; it can only be all the meat and fat plus the water I am drinking; the muscle fat I ate around midday on Saturday plus the water I drank many hours after swimming and riding again made me feel kind of watery-sick at night and gave me more trouble today - only threw running and riding do I notice this. If we drink more water than the body can take up and only eat protein and fat...well some call this "normal" - even Delfuego (he has runny stools) has noticed a difference between muscle fat and suet.

Bone meal is only volume and I can not see paleo = bone meal.

I think I am going to talk to this man (who makes this osmose gadget to clean my water) again about inorganic minerals like they are in mineralwater and kidney stones. I would just like to get peace of mind.

Nicola

[van]

  Just a thought,  Nicola, maybe it's the chemicals in the water in the pool where you swim.  Have you ever noticed a correlation between swimming and watery stools.  Some people 'drink' more water when swimming than they now about.  Here in the US almost everyone uses Chlorine to disinfect pools.  You might be highly sensitive to it, and of course it could be disinfecting  your intestines.   Just a thought....

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks again for the magnesium recommendations, which I've reviewed.

The Trophic Magnesium Chelazome contains magnesium stearate, which Tyler seems to view as extremely toxic and Dr. Ron sent me a fairly persuasive handout on its problems, so I'm trying to avoid it.

Trophic Magnesium Chelazome Ingredients: Each Caplet Contains: magnesium Amino Acid Chelate...560mg(Providing Elemental Magnesium...100mg)Excipients: microcrystalline cellulose, dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stereate (all from vegetable source).

[Side note: For vegetarians/vegans "from vegetable source" is a health claim--to me that reads as more likely unhealthy.]

For a salt lake trace minerals product I found this:

Trace Minerals Research Liquimins Ionic Magnesium, 400 mg
Magnesium (ConcenTrace®)   400 Milligrams   100%
Chloride (ConcenTrace®)   1140 Milligrams   34%
Sodium (ConcenTrace®)   15 Milligrams   <1%
Potassium (ConcenTrace®)   10 Milligrams   0%
Sulfate (ConcenTrace®)   90 Milligrams   *
Boron (ConcenTrace®)   1.6 Milligrams   *
*Daily value not established.
Other Ingredients: ConcenTrace®. This product also contains the full spectrum of naturally occurring minerals and trace minerals from ConcenTrace®, as found in the Great Salt Lake, an inland sea.

It looks more natural but has a fairly high level of chloride that I wasn't looking for. Is there some benefit of ingesting lots of chloride? Dr. Cordain is actually negative on it, though he didn't support his view with anything other than its acidifying nature (and my diet is already acidified, resulting in a urine pH of around 5.5 usually, without any apparent negative effects, so I find that unpersuasive). It also doesn't specify the type of magnesium.

I prefer a less-absorbable form of magnesium, such as magnesium oxide, because that can treat both of my two remaining noticeable Mg-deficiency-type symptoms (the others having appeared to resolve): constipation and mild vertigo if I go too long without any Mg supplementation. It works well for me on both.

This is what I'm leaning to getting for my next magnesium supplement order--it's the purest form of Mg oxide I could find:

Magnesium Oxide Powder - 100% Pure
by Now
8 oz
Contains only pure magnesium oxide from ancient ocean deposits.
http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questp405119/r04

My hygienist said that my tartar is probably from excess calcium or phosphorous in my saliva, which is supported here:

"excess calcium can contribute to tartar build-up. Calcium that is naturally present in saliva can be a source of excess calcium. Tartar control agents in toothpaste work by slightly changing the chemistry of saliva and teeth to inhibit the build-up of calcium on teeth. These changes inhibit calcium from crystallizing into tartar once the calcium binds to plaque. In this way, less tartar forms, and the tartar that does form is often easier to remove." http://science.howstuffworks.com/chemistry-in-a-tube-of-toothpaste-info.htm/printable

I asked her if Mg would help offset that and explained that I have a history of multiple Mg-deficiency symptoms (I also have a history of decades of eating wheat with a gluten intolerance, to which Mg deficiency is associated). She said no, but didn't explain why.

[cherimoya_kid]

My hygienist said that my tartar is probably from excess calcium or phosphorous in my saliva, which is supported here:

Vitamin D-3 really reduces my tartar/plaque buildup.  You might want to experiment with some D-3 softgels. You can always switch to a more natural form later, if you find that it works for you.

[Nicola]

I prefer a less-absorbable form of magnesium, such as magnesium oxide, because that can treat both of my two remaining noticeable Mg-deficiency-type symptoms (the others having appeared to resolve): constipation and mild vertigo if I go too long without any Mg supplementation. It works well for me on both.

This is what I'm leaning to getting for my next magnesium supplement order--it's the purest form of Mg oxide I could find:

Magnesium Oxide Powder - 100% Pure
by Now
8 oz
Contains only pure magnesium oxide from ancient ocean deposits.
http://www.zooscape.com/cgi-bin/maitred/GreenCanyon/questp405119/r04

Is magnesium oxide not "(man)-made"? ...http://www.magnesiaspecialties.com/students.htm
how do you know you need magnesium and wouldn't supplementing cause an unbalance? I mean if a natural diet needs all kinds of processed supplements then we would all have to rethink things?

Nicola

[Paleo Donk]

Is magnesium oxide not "(man)-made"? ...http://www.magnesiaspecialties.com/students.htm
how do you know you need magnesium and wouldn't supplementing cause an unbalance? I mean if a natural diet needs all kinds of processed supplements then we would all have to rethink things?

I'm sure all of agree that we'd like to keep man made products to a minimum in our diets. The problem though is that all of us have eaten significant amounts of unnatural man-made foods for decades which has literally weakend and sometimes destroyed our bodies natural ability to do what it does. Take for instance some one who has had all their teeth fall out. Getting new man-made teeth, though entirely unnatural, is an absolute necessity. Unnatural supplementation could ultimately be the answer and is something that should not be automatically ignored, though I'd rather avoid it myself.  That said, I have no clue as to whether magnesium oxide would cause any inbalances.

[Nicola]

Well I once again got hold of this "OXY-POWDER" new age magnesium - it's quite an interesting read...I mean eating raw is one thing

It may help in many ways - like kidnee stones, black tears, IBS...

http://www.webspirit.com/kahuna/produkte/oxypowder.htm

Nicola

[PaleoPhil]

Vitamin D-3 really reduces my tartar/plaque buildup.  You might want to experiment with some D-3 softgels. You can always switch to a more natural form later, if you find that it works for you.

Yes, I take two D3 softgels per day along with the one raw CLO gel, so I can get 5000 IUs of D3 without overloading on vitamin A.

[PaleoPhil]

Is magnesium oxide not "(man)-made"? ...http://www.magnesiaspecialties.com/students.htm
how do you know you need magnesium and wouldn't supplementing cause an unbalance? I mean if a natural diet needs all kinds of processed supplements then we would all have to rethink things?

Nicola

Here's what that source says:

"The majority of magnesium oxide produced today is obtained from the processing of naturally occurring minerals such as magnesite (magnesium carbonate), magnesium chloride rich brine, and seawater."

Here's the ingredients from http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/oxy-powder/ingredients.html:

Ozonated magnesium ("ozonated" sounds to me like a bogus way to charge more)
Organic Acacia Gum (I don't want this legume crap that I tried in the past with no benefits)
Kosher certified vegetarian capsules (not a selling point for me)

The dosage (2746mg) is WAY more than I take. I take Mg as a nutrient replacement to temporarily make up for the remnants of a deficiency from a past so-called "healthy" diet--not as a violent cleanse. I believe it would be dangerous to take that level of Mg on a regular basis.

Well I once again got hold of this "OXY-POWDER" new age magnesium - it's quite an interesting read...I mean eating raw is one thing

It may help in many ways - like kidnee stones, black tears, IBS...

http://www.webspirit.com/kahuna/produkte/oxypowder.htm

Nicola

Thanks for trying to help, but that web page looks like it is written in German, Nicola. I doubt I could order from it and I can't read what the ingredients are.

I hadn't heard of black tears until Tyler mentioned it. What is it?