PaleoPhil's Journal

[PaleoPhil]

I do think a varied diet can potentially be a benefit though : / and do think that variety within animals (at least including whole animals/organs if not sea or poultry etc..) probably should be the first place to turn for a craving or nutrition-skeptical carnivore.

Yes, I don't understand how some ZCers who avoid or dismiss organs reconcile that with justifying their diet by claiming that humans are natural carnivorous predators, given that the favorite food of carnivorous predators like big cats and canids is reportedly offal. A diet of only muscle meats and butter doesn't have an equivalent in any wild animal or traditional human population I've read about. Even the Masai and Inuit eat organs and other foods and even Stefansson admitted that indigenous North Americans relished marrow, the liver of "loche" (loach fish) and even moose nose:

"To hunting man, the marrow of the long bones is the greatest delicacy he knows, except perhaps boiled moose nose or the boiled liver of the loche [which Stefansson wrote is "a fresh-water fish that, although nowhere taken in large numbers, is perhaps the favorite food fish of the Eskimos of northern Canada and Alaska. It is especially prized for its large, fatty liver."]." (FOTL, pp. 27-28)

Plus, the foods in the Bellevue study so heavily promoted by ZCers included liver, kidney, brain and marrow:

"The meat used included beef, lamb, veal, pork, and chicken. The parts used were muscle, liver, kidney, brain, bone marrow, bacon, and fat. While on lecture trips V.S. occasionally ate eggs and a little butter when meat was not readily obtainable. The carbohydrate content of the diet was very small, consisting solely of the glycogen in the meat. ... A sample menu for the day, given in raw weights follows.

Breakfast: lean beef, 190 gm.; fat, 100 gm.
Dinner: liver, 200 gm.; fat, 75 gm.
Supper: lean beef, 200 gm.; marrow, 70 gm."

(From the Stefansson all-meat Bellevue Hospital study, "PROLONGED MEAT DIETS WITH A STUDY OF KIDNEY FUNCTION AND KETOSIS.*" BY WALTER S. MCCLELLAN AND EUGENE F. Du BOIS. From the Russell Sage Institute of Pathology in Association with the Second Medical (Cornell) Division of Bellevue Hospital, New York. Received for publication, February 13, 1930. Downloaded from The Journal of Biological Chemistry Website, www.jbc.org, on July 6, 2008)

I do agree the coffee analogy does apply to many things though.

Yes, that was an excellent point by Nicole. Sometimes we don't know that we are getting negative effects from consuming a food (such as the coffee example) until we avoid it for a while and then reintroduce it, or that we are getting negative effects from not eating something until we reintroduce it (as with the vegetarians/vegans and meats).

-----

An unrelated sidebar: I modified my signature to take into account of the fact that my current diet is somewhat altered and changing and more focused now on managing longtime GI and underweight issues than on mostly-raw facultative carnivory. I had originally added the RFC label to my avatar because some folks seemed to be under the misimpression that I  had some ideological bent towards ZC, perhaps because I'm the moderator of the forum with ZC in the label or because of my past experiment with ZC (which was never intended to be permanent), I don't know. I haven't been noticing that misunderstanding as much lately and the RFC label is not a very accurate descriptor based on what I'm trying to accomplish right now, so I dispensed with it.

[rawcarni]

Yes, I don't understand how some ZCers who avoid or dismiss organs reconcile that with justifying their diet by claiming that humans are natural carnivorous predators, given that the favorite food of carnivorous predators like big cats and canids is reportedly offal. A diet of only muscle meats and butter doesn't have an equivalent in any wild animal or traditional human population I've read about.

I totally agree with this. I eat a wide variety of different animals-and that not only means ruminants but also wild boar, pork, all sorts of different fowl and eat organs as well. Oh I also eat fish-some times a lot and several days a weak. This is also somewhat different from Lex's way of eating, who is quite happy and succesful with his theory and practice that man thrives best on red meat (beef, elk etc.) However I myself am not satisfied for a longer period of time when I have the same animal only. My hunger tends to increase after some time and I have observed also that cravings start when I eat the same type of animal for weeks on end. I assume each animal species has a different nutrient profile 
Nicole

[TylerDurden]

I totally agree with this. I eat a wide variety of different animals-and that not only means ruminants but also wild boar, pork, all sorts of different fowl and eat organs as well. Oh I also eat fish-some times a lot and several days a weak. This is also somewhat different from Lex's way of eating, who is quite happy and succesful with his theory and practice that man thrives best on red meat (beef, elk etc.) However I myself am not satisfied for a longer period of time when I have the same animal only. My hunger tends to increase after some time and I have observed also that cravings start when I eat the same type of animal for weeks on end. I assume each animal species has a different nutrient profile 
Nicole

Correct, they have widely differing nutrient-profiles, plus there are differences between grassfed meats depending on whether the farmer feeds them grains in winter or not, or if the farmer has grazing fields with extra nutritious herbs like clover etc..

I feel the same way re need for variety. I find I thrive far better if I don't stick to just 1 type of animal.

[PaleoPhil]

I tried raw jicama and don't care for it at all when plain and on its own. I'll try lime with it and see how that goes. Still loving the raw organic parsnips, though, and I found that the key with them is buying high quality organic parsnips. The supermarket parsnips were so bad that I threw out the last one (I wish I had a garden that I could mulch it into). That's one plant food that I can really tell the difference between organic and conventional.

Have had some more improvement in the bowel area. Mashed avocado and raw egg yolks seem to help with that and I seem to be slowly improving in handling digesting avocados so that I can eat somewhat more each time before I develop mild belching or stomach upset. It beats being at #1 on the Bristol stool scale. I definitely handle avocados much better than coconut oil, and while I don't like the taste of either, the avocado is less offputting to me and it tastes great if I add raw honey or a lot of blackberries. The downside of that is the symptoms I get from carbs (dry skin, scalp, lips, and mouth, throat, sinus and colon mucus, cystic acne, white spots on the fingernails, vertical fingernail ridges, stomach ache, white crud coating my teeth, nasty taste in my mouth, less restful sleep, flank pain, UTIs, back pain, toe cramps, etc.), so I'm trying to find a way to resolve the constipation and underweight without triggering too much of the carby symptoms. It's a bit of a catch-22, but I'm hoping to find away around or through it.

[Iguana]

Still didn't try cassia fistula, Phil? 
 

[rawcarni]

Hey Phil,
The other day I had a single air dried hot pepper-well it was stimulating my digestive system...and that (funny...) made me think of you, as you seem to have pretty poor digestion: Have you tried eating more hot/spicy stuff along with meat (such as pepper, garlic etc?)
Nicole

[Johan August]

Hi Phil
I have been reading your posts here and in Lex Rooker's journal. Both of you are very helpful to a newcomer like me.

A source of "natural" magnesium could be magnesium water. It is made by adding 50ml of magnesium hydroxide (I use MoM) to one litre of carbonated soda water, any basic one will do. After adding magnesium hydroxide shake it thoroughly for thirty seconds and put into the fridge for 30 minutes and then give it a second quick shake. Then take 100ml of this "concentrate" and add it to tap water 1:9. You now have a copy of naturally occurring spring water which is magnesium rich. If you use it for all your drinking you will get a fairly good addition of magnesium carbonate. I use it to ease constipation and prevent atrial fibrillation.
If you have any questions do ask.

JA

[miles]

really tough connective tissue like raw lung

Why do you always say lung is tough? The lungs I've eaten are soft like marshmallow..

[TylerDurden]

Why do you always say lung is tough? The lungs I've eaten are soft like marshmallow..

   Hardly. It's full of cartilage.

[miles]

What's wrong with cartilage? They are only tiny short tubes.. I don't even notice them.

[TylerDurden]

What's wrong with cartilage? They are only tiny short tubes.. I don't even notice them.

  Perhaps you cut up the raw lung into such tiny pieces that it's not a bother.

[miles]

No I got the lungs whole, with the heart, tongue and liver attached... I don't cut up any of my meat, if I cut it's only to separate different parts e.g. tongue from lungs etc, for handling/storage, never to affect the eating. I just bite into the lungs and eat them like I would a muscle joint, a liver, a kidney, a heart, a pancreas etc... The tubes are like a couple of millimetres long each, just mixed in with the lung meat.. They cause no problem whatsoever..

[PaleoPhil]

Still didn't try cassia fistula, Phil?  
 

I found a source for it at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HW5SA4/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=A14UNMB2R96UBX, which is convenient for me because I buy other stuff via Amazon, and I added it to my cart. It's an organic vendor (http://www.naturalzing.com/nzaboutus.htm). It will go through with my next order.

How long does cassia last before going "bad"? How do you store it? Do you eat it? If so, about how often do you eat it and about how much at one time, on average? Does it work to reverse the underlying problems that cause constipation or is it just a temporary fix that one must keep taking as constipation develops?

Hey Phil,
The other day I had a single air dried hot pepper-well it was stimulating my digestive system...and that (funny...) made me think of you, as you seem to have pretty poor digestion: Have you tried eating more hot/spicy stuff along with meat (such as pepper, garlic etc?)
Nicole

Yes, I used to eat and enjoy some nightshade peppers but found I did better without them. I occasionally eat garlic. Do you eat it rare? If so, how do you eat it? Garlic is very strong rare. Do you dry it?

It is made by adding 50ml of magnesium hydroxide (I use MoM) to one litre of carbonated soda water, any basic one will do.

Yes, I know it's considered heresy here by some, but I do use small amounts of some supplemental Mg free of any stearate or additives and eat some Mg-rich foods as part of my program for dealing with chronic decades-long constipation and dental issues. I try to use supplements that are as much like foods as possible--I call them foodlements--to minimize added risk.

I don't claim that supplements/foodlements are necessary for people who are completely healthy who have access to optimal foods and I'm not trying to achieve supernormal health, I just find some foodlements (not many) to be beneficial for certain of my symptoms that are not yet completely resolved. I see them more as replacements for what I'm lacking/missing either in my body or my diet than as supplements above and beyond what can be obtained from an optimal diet. I only use them because they work for me, not out of any philosophy or ideology and I only take the minimum of foodlements I need to manage the symptoms. Plus, I study foodlements and their potential side effects before I try them. My long-term goal is to be free of any foodlements or supplements. I'm already free of all medications, which was an earlier goal. Supplements and medications add a level of complexity and unknown risk that I'd rather avoid if possible. When the choice is between medications or foodlements, I choose foodlements. I do think that it is wise to be skeptical about supplements and medications, but it's unhelpful when people jump to negative broad-brush and stereotyped conclusions about anyone who uses them. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of false negative assumptions made here and elsewhere (not by you, of course) about people (often lumping all together) who use foodlements/supplements and I hope I've put them to rest in my case.

[PaleoPhil]

I discovered a small Iraqi market that opened up 2 months ago a few blocks from my home. They sell honeycomb that's darker than most but it's the liquidy, sugary kind of honey I don't care much for. No exotic organ meats that I could see.

[rawcarni]

I occasionally eat garlic. Do you eat it rare? If so, how do you eat it? Garlic is very strong rare. Do you dry it?

I eat it raw. But I am probably used to the strong taste as I have been eating it raw since childhood (people in Germany like to put raw garlic slices on bread with salami  )
Nicole

[TylerDurden]

I love raw garlic. I absolutely adore the taste of raw garlic leaves, but most shops/stalls only ever sell the bulbs.

[Iguana]

I found a source for it at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HW5SA4/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=A14UNMB2R96UBX, which is convenient for me because I buy other stuff via Amazon, and I added it to my cart. It's an organic vendor (http://www.naturalzing.com/nzaboutus.htm). It will go through with my next order.

How long does cassia last before going "bad"? How do you store it? Do you eat it? If so, about how often do you eat it and about how much at one time, on average? Does it work to reverse the underlying problems that cause constipation or is it just a temporary fix that one must keep taking as constipation develops?

I keep cassia sticks in my fridge. It lasts several months or even years. If it becomes too dry, we can dampen it in a wet cloth, but when stored in the fridge it's not necessary.

You can break it with a nutcracker or with the teeth and suck the soft parts, then spit the hard wooden parts and seeds. I suck some disks when it smells and tastes good, at least half an hour before a meal, usually in the morning or in the evening before going to sleep. Begin gradually with 4 or 5 discs maximum and then you can double the amount everyday until you reach the instinctive stop which occurs for me with a hard, strong too sweet taste, almost mouth burning.

In the link you provided, is $10.95 the price for one stick only? If so, it's much too expensive.

[PaleoPhil]

Garlic leaves sounds good. Never seen them, unfortunately.

You can break it with a nutcracker or with the teeth and suck the soft parts, then spit the hard wooden parts and seeds.

Wooden parts?

I suck some disks when it smells and tastes good, at least half an hour before a meal, usually in the morning or in the evening before going to sleep.

How often, on avg?

In the link you provided, is $10.95 the price for one stick only? If so, it's much too expensive.

OK, I'll check elsewhere, thanks.

[Iguana]

Wooden parts?

Yes, the shell is a kind of thin wood and each disk has also a thin wood frame on each side of which  there’s the soft thing to suck!

How often, on avg?

You can test its smell (once the shell is broken) everyday or twice  a day (or even anytime you like) and have some everyday as long as you like its taste. Personally I do long periods without it and then I have it again for some period… it doesn’t change much for me if eat some everyday or not.

[PaleoPhil]

So even though it is a legume and contains lectins, you think it is OK to eat every day? What about the warnings of Cordain and others about the lectins in legumes?

[Iguana]

We eat it only as long as it remains tasty, so we don’t run into the risk of eating too much of it. Toxicity is always dependent on the dose. A stuff may be necessary at the correct dose and become noxious when in excess, even plain water. Since I’m a paleo hominid, I have no knowledge at all about lectins, enzymes, proteins, antinutrients, etc. and moreover I don’t know whether cassia fistula is a legume or whatever. All these classification of foodstuff are artificial, like every classification. I don’t give a damn about it and I just eat whatever tastes good. Whatever unprocessed paleostufff tastes good is good for me, that’s all I need to know.

[RawZi]

... no knowledge at all about lectins, enzymes, proteins, antinutrients, etc. and moreover I don’t know whether cassia fistula is a legume or whatever. All these classification of foodstuff are artificial, like every classification. I don’t give a damn about it ...

    Thinking constancy can be unhealthy for the body. We know too that eating certain foods require thinking excessively.  I'm glad to eat in a manner where calorie counting and all that don't matter (I do feel better though eating at least certain ratio fat with RP).

[RawZi]

    But Phil, I should add the fact I like reading your well put together science

[PaleoPhil]

Toxicity is always dependent on the dose.

Not just dose; also frequency and duration. Toxins accumulate.


Thanks Rawzi and don't worry, while I enjoy thinking I don't think constantly. As a matter of fact, I make a point of engaging in periods of non-thinking meditation every day. I've never been a fan of calorie counting either.

[Iguana]

Not just dose; also frequency and duration. Toxins accumulate.

Yes, especially DDT, dieldrin, aldrin, PCBs, dioxin, furans, heavy metals, etc. accumulate while most natural organic compounds can be biodegraded, detoxified and eliminated by our body as long as the dose and frequency remains within conditions encountered in natural instinctive regulation.

It’s a matter of amount ingested against amount detoxified and/or eliminated. Of course, if the first is greater then the second, there’s accumulation.

POPs are organic chemical compounds which bioaccumulate in animals and humans. These pollutants are primarily the products and by-products of human industrial processes.