ALL VACCINES are dangerous to human health. Reject them ALL.

[goodsamaritan]

“ALL vaccines are causing immediate and delayed, acute and chronic, waxing and waning, impairments to blood flow, throughout the brain and body. This IS causing us all to become chronically ill, sick, and causing brain damages along a continuum of clinically silent to death. This is causing ischemic “strokes”. In some respects, this is also “aging.” Since the damages are microscopic, we cannot see them as they occur. However, we can now see the neurological aftermath of these damages – within hours and days of vaccination – all vaccinations.” — Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/05/vaccinations-are-causing-impaired-blood-flow-ischemia-chronic-illness-disease-and-death-for-us-all/

[Guittarman03]

Thanks for the link.  Good stuff. 

[SuperInfinity]

Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

This guy's an MD and has a doctorate, so not exactly the best source of information.

[yon yonson]

interesting gs. im planning a trip to thailand this summer and my dad keeps telling me i gotta get all these vaccines. the cdc recommends vaccines for malaria, typhoid, japanese encephalitis, and hepatitis A and B when visiting thailand. my gut says all these vaccines are probably a very bad idea, but im still a little unsure. anyone care to chime in on these specific vaccines or just vaccines in general? any sources about vaccines that i can show my dad? thanks

[TylerDurden]

Every now and then one finds reports that 1 or 2 in every 1000 or so suffer some complications from vaccines, with some of those even dying.

[ys]

Here is one site that talks about different vaccines.  There are a lot of articles, some on the first page, but some you may have to go through long list to find what you looking for.

http://www.laleva.org/

[phatdave]

I had hep, typhoid and rabbies jabs before going to thailand/SE asia for 6 months - plus the old malaria tablets with the nasty side effects (they began with D i think). (just remembered 'Doxycyclin'!)

I can't say whether or not they stopped anything for sure, but I do remember just how horrible the malaria tablets made both me and my girlfriend at the time felt - and we stopped taking them after a week. I remember we felt like we were dying emotionally! (and had an unquenchable thirst, plus vivid dreams etc.)

I actually think I made myself far more sick from constantly making bad choices about food, thinking that eating all sorts of dodgy stuff I don't think many locals would touch, under the impression that it would make me superman and adapt 'better'. Instead I got a poorly tummy numerous times, I suspect from pathogenic bacteria, and was badly poisned when I ate 2 closed (yes closed) clams in Vietnam, although I grew up knowing never to do that and why (god people can be stupid). It took me a very very long time to recover from that period of stupidity encompassing most of the time I was away, and the food choices I made. However on a side note, when I returned to the UK it was actually the spark of looking into taking my health into my own hands, because I felt so feeble, and was getting a bad reaction to dairy, and spots (zits). 1 1/2 years later (and a journey through various equally crazy fad diets) here I am, feeling pretty darn amazing, and getting better day by day.

I guess my point is is that my stupidity and not listenning to my bodys obvious signals lead me to real health problems. I think I hurt myself alot more than I think I would have had knowing what I know now about the human body and food (or what I think I know )

I would highly suggest listenning to good samaritan who lives in that part of the world about the vaccinations, although I would love to follow my heart and say don't bother. The only thing stopping me is that people are comparitively weak now-a-days, and you have grown up in an entirely different part of the world which may may not have an effect how your body might respond to such viruses/bacteria/organisms.

I may not know much, but I think its fair to say our ancestors weren't accustomed to flying to different parts of the planet.

[yon yonson]

thanks for the replies guys. im trying to figure out what im going to do about food over there. i really want to continue eating raw paleo but am unsure of where to find good quality meats. i asked one guy (silentbuddy i think - not sure if he still posts) who is from thailand and he said he eats anything that looks good in the markets (he washes stuff first). has anyone else had experiences eating rpd in thailand or southeast asia? dave, were they raw clams? did you try any raw paleo foods over there?

i kinda want to just go there and eat rpd and not get vaccinated and see how it all pans out, but that seems a little risky. i would assume my immune system is pretty rugged (haven't really been sick since rpd - despite living in an area with prevalent swine flu cases) but i might not have immunity towards certain foreign viruses and bacteria like dave said....

[goodsamaritan]

in the marketing of these vaccines, there is purposeful confusion calling them all vaccines.  When actually each should be evaluated.

For example MALARIA is a very real danger in the deep jungles / deep forests of Palawan, Philippines - anyone venturing that deep needs to get a Prophylaxis / Malaria precautionary shot as the type of brain hemorrhage malaria in those deep jungles are totally deadly.  Malaria is a centuries old natural population control measure.  

The other shots you mentioned I do not believe in them.

Tetanus shots are given only when you are bitten by an animal or get puncture wounds.

-------------

With food:

I have the impression that Thailand has the BEST DURIANS (fatty fruit) and the BEST LANZONES , better than ours in the Philippines.  Drown yourself in Durians.

If in the part of Thailand you go to they have wild ocean fish, that should be a good animal food.

Of course in the philippines I know where to get good beef.  I'm not sure where to get good beef in thailand.  Maybe they have goats in thailand.

[Ioanna]

I always wonder what I should do if I ever decide to have children regarding vaccinations... what would you do? 

[phatdave]

No no I ate long dead, and then cooked clams! It was at a fish restuarant where you picked some stuff then sit down while its BBQ'd. I picked just 2 baby clams in addition to my meal just to taste, and when my plate came I rather naively thought that because they were both closed that it must have been normal.

This was a while before any raw paleo adventures so I basically ate all sorts of stuff, some I certainly would eat again like some of the most wonderful fresh fish I have ever had, and although it was indeed cooked it was fantastic. I specifically remember a BBQ lobster and also BBQ squid.... fantastic.

However some very dubious looking chicken hearts being roasted by a rather unkempt old lady in the middle of no-where, I wonder what I was thinking. Its not a surprise some travellers get funny looks from the locals - come to think of it I guess its just like me finding the tourists in London taking photos of the weirdest things, eating at unusual places, and buying strange stuff equally funny! How differently I think I might behave if I returned to that part of the world, or anywhere else for that matter . Hehe listen to me all wise and high and mighty!

If I went again I would almost certainly eat 'some' wild fruit, in addition to whatever best animal food I could find, and maybe other bit and bobs - and be generally more cautious about pathogenic bacteria. I have learnt that there are different sorts of bacteria indeed. I would maybe also eat a little cooked, as I have found small amounts here and there don't affect me too much. Its hard to make any real rules as you must really see what is there and make the best choices based on what you know. It is very dangerous to stick to a ridged way of thinking as it blinds you to the facts at that moment. That was my mistake. Be strong, be smart, and look after yourself.

I think the mountains of rice, vast amounts of nuts, processed junk, deep fried this, dodgy meat, and pathogenic that, and not thinking straight could be easily replaced by some rich pickings in the fresh wild fish, wild fruit, whatever etc department, with a little cooking here and there, and a side of smarts.

So thats my advice

How long you going for anyway? maybe make a new thread if you want to continue talking about rp in SE Asia, or stick here for vaccination talk .

[yon yonson]

in the marketing of these vaccines, there is purposeful confusion calling them all vaccines.  When actually each should be evaluated.

For example MALARIA is a very real danger in the deep jungles / deep forests of Palawan, Philippines - anyone venturing that deep needs to get a Prophylaxis / Malaria precautionary shot as the type of brain hemorrhage malaria in those deep jungles are totally deadly.  Malaria is a centuries old natural population control measure.  

The other shots you mentioned I do not believe in them.

Tetanus shots are given only when you are bitten by an animal or get puncture wounds.

-------------

With food:

I have the impression that Thailand has the BEST DURIANS (fatty fruit) and the BEST LANZONES , better than ours in the Philippines.  Drown yourself in Durians.

If in the part of Thailand you go to they have wild ocean fish, that should be a good animal food.

Of course in the philippines I know where to get good beef.  I'm not sure where to get good beef in thailand.  Maybe they have goats in thailand.

thanks gs! that's very helpful. i will look into prophylaxis for sure. definitely excited for the thai durians. i'm hoping i can find a good place for beef. planning on bringing lots of suet though.

[yon yonson]

How long you going for anyway? maybe make a new thread if you want to continue talking about rp in SE Asia, or stick here for vaccination talk .

well my family is planning on going for a few weeks but i'll be done with college so im planning on staying after (not sure for how long). also, mostly because of goodsmaritans pics and praise of the Philippines, im probably gonna have to go there too. maybe i can even meet up with him! anyways, good idea, i think i will start a new thread

[Guittarman03]

I'm really divided personally on the whole vaccination thing.  They apparently do prevent a host of diseases.  The basic premise behind them seems reasonable to me, even from a paleo perspective: you introduce very small amounts of live pathogens to your body, so it can have the proper antibodies in order to be easily prepared when a large amount of that same pathogen happens to get in your system.

Only problem is all the other crap in the vaccinations are causing all kinds of damage to us, our children, causing autism, and who knows what kind of compounded/propogated effects generations later.  And if I understand correctly, a lot of times it's not even live pathogen, it's something synthesized.  I would bet that all of us have somewhat reduce mental capacity for having had a host of vaccines, especially at such an age where the mind is developing.    

Not only that, and I might get reamed for saying this, I don't consider higher rates of disease induced mortality (naturally of course) a bad thing.  I tend to think we are (have) overpopulated our planet.  And we are definitely in the process of de-evolving b/c so many people who are weak and ill adapted for survival are busy propogating their genes.  Hell, who knows I may rightfully belong in that group (altho I'm not busy reproducing).  

Point is, I think it would be better for humanity as a whole, and ultimately MORE humane to let diseases run their course and kill off the weak.  Look at the growing numbers of autistic children.  Why should we trade vibrant life (for those who would survive disease), for dull life just to make sure everyone survives?        

[goodsamaritan]

I always wonder what I should do if I ever decide to have children regarding vaccinations... what would you do? 

When my wife and i had not done our research, we vaccinated our first child because we knew nothing.  When we evaluated each and every shot and each history and each so called effectivity and each danger... we totally stopped all vaccinations.

My 1st child, vaccinated until 2 years.
2nd child, vaccinated until 6 months (we woke up)
3rd child, absolutely no vaccines and no drugs (she's the healthiest, she's now almost 5)

Any future children... absolutely no vaccinations and no drugs.

It will depend on what your research comes up with.

The school my children go to discourages vaccinations. (Waldorf inspired.)

[Hannibal]

They apparently do prevent a host of diseases.  The basic premise behind them seems reasonable to me, even from a paleo perspective: you introduce very small amounts of live pathogens to your body, so it can have the proper antibodies in order to be easily prepared when a large amount of that same pathogen happens to get in your system.

They don't prevent the diseases. Look at the graphs - http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html
Read the book "Vaccination The "Hidden" Facts" written by Ian Sinclair and you will see that vaccines haven't been responsible for decline in mortality because of the diseases.

[Guittarman03]

Interesting.  So many of these diseases were already on the decline.  But if there is nothing substantial to the idea of inoculation (vaccinations aside), then why have certain diseases like polio and small pox all but disappead?  I guess I would still suspect there to be a small number of people still contracting these various diseases if immunizations were completely ineffective.  I mean, people still do eat bad food all over the world, and sanitary conditions are not necessarily kept even in America. 

[William]

Interesting.  So many of these diseases were already on the decline.  But if there is nothing substantial to the idea of inoculation (vaccinations aside), then why have certain diseases like polio and small pox all but disappead?  I guess I would still suspect there to be a small number of people still contracting these various diseases if immunizations were completely ineffective.  I mean, people still do eat bad food all over the world, and sanitary conditions are not necessarily kept even in America. 

Improvement in transportation/distribution of food and especially refrigeration vastly reduced malnutrition.
Malnutrition, not poor sanitation, is the cause of disease.
We adventurous few prove that for ourselves.

If a study were to be done, and it has not AFAIK, I bet it would show that the smallpox genocide of aboriginal North Americans was among the malnourished maize-eaters of the South, and not among the well fed fativorous Northerners. To this day there are more AmerIndians in Canada than in the U.S.A.

(What is the Latin word for fat?)

[Hannibal]

What is the Latin word for fat?

pingue, pinguedo, pinguitudo, adeps

[yon yonson]

If a study were to be done, and it has not AFAIK, I bet it would show that the smallpox genocide of aboriginal North Americans was among the malnourished maize-eaters of the South, and not among the well fed fativorous Northerners.

well that's just not true. smallpox impacted virtually all tribes in the new world. the plains indians might have been a little less susceptible due to their more paleo diet but by no means did all the plains indians have immunity to smallpox and other european diseases.

A better argument, in my opinion, is that smallpox was a disease created by populations that didn't eat as healthy and/or lived in overcrowded, unnatural environments (europeans at the time)

[William]

Pinguvore just doesn't sound right, especially since there is a place called Pingo National Park in Stefansson country.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/pingo/index_e.asp - Note the weather!

[cherimoya_kid]

Let's clear one thing up.

Diseases ravage wildlife populations from time to time, and it's not all due to poor nutrition.  To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease is

LAUGHABLY stupid.

There, I said it.

And I meant it.

And anyone who says any different, is also LAUGHABLY stupid.

For the record.

That doesn't mean nutrition can't improve the odds of surviving infectious disease.  However, to think that any diet is all the protection you need...holy CRAP, that's dumb.  I can hardly even put into WORDS how stupid that is. Period.

[Hannibal]

To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease

But who think like that?
I think that diseases are befeficial when we eat good things like on rawpaleodiet - infections are the easiest way to cleanse ourselves
But if we eat shits, take antibiotics and lots of other drugs than diseases could be harmful

[William]

Let's clear one thing up.

Diseases ravage wildlife populations from time to time, and it's not all due to poor nutrition.  To think that a raw paleo diet (or any diet) is perfect protection from infectious disease is

LAUGHABLY stupid.

Disease marks bones.
Bones of paleolithic man show no such marks.

Malnutrition is the only explanation of disease; if you have a better one, we would all be interested.

[cherimoya_kid]

Disease marks bones.
Bones of paleolithic man show no such marks.

Malnutrition is the only explanation of disease; if you have a better one, we would all be interested.

Paleo Man did not live in crowded cities, where the swine flu, or typhoid, or the Plague, or AIDS could spread easily from person to person.  People fly from continent to continent all the time now.  In Paleo times, the spread of disease was a much slower process.  The fact is, most really dangerous human infectious diseases came from animals. AIDS, anthrax, smallpox, mad cow disease...these all come from animals.  In paleo times, animals were not domesticated, so this particular method could not happen.  I have nothing against domestication of livestock, I just realize that we have to be prepared for the diseases they can give to humans.