Raw nutrition, love, premonitory dreams, visions and ESP

[Iguana]

Of course, not only one! There will soon be  7 billions people on this planet, how could there be only possibility?

As a matter of fact, the current social rules about marriage, closed couple and family are a total disaster. We lived in tribes for the longest part of our evolution, the private possession of the partner in a closed couple is a love killing prison born with the Neolithic.

We can  talk further  later, it's time for me to go for a swim! 

[Aura]

U think all ultimate is Love and I think its Sexual Desire.. but I have to say I hope it is Love.. so that I am wrong. But I havent found proof of this just yet  .

They are two and same thing.
Unconditional Love and Unconditional Sex. Cannot really be separated.

Selfish love and selfish sex are the product of human disconnection with nature/the divine, imo.

[Iguana]

Glad to see that you agree with me! 

[Wai Kai Zen]

Thanks for joining in Aura .

Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know  .

[Aura]

Glad to see that you agree with me! 

Ahaha and I did not read your previous post where you said exactly the same!
Just now! I found it!
  

[Aura]

Thanks for joining in Aura .

Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know  .

I do not know about you guys but I sometimes think none of us has really ever experienced anything like Unconditional Love. Because we are in the process of getting there.
Not sure about the mystics, the saints or great yogis as I never met one......

Anyway, I think we could have several partners even at the same time and with each one of them, to have a unique relationship.
You could still have a preference for one in particular but this won´t tie you exclusively to her/him..

Do not personally have experience about polyamory..

[jessica]

I do not know about you guys but I sometimes think none of us has really ever experienced anything like Unconditional Love. Because we are in the process of getting there.
Not sure about the mystics, the saints or great yogis as I never met one......

Anyway, I think we could have several partners even at the same time and with each one of them, to have a unique relationship.
You could still have a preference for one in particular but this won´t tie you exclusively to her/him..

Do not personally have experience about polyamory..

I have friends who are polyamorous or have non-traditional/Christian relationships.  And I cant really disagree with them when I think about each relationship and what it fulfills for that person.  Like some people really connect with others on levels that aren't complete, but something about what that connection does is enough.  I don't know.  I don't think anyone should appeal to any standard when expressing love.

[jessica]

Yes, actually!  When I think about those I truly love and am deeply connected to, yes there is much telepathy.  I have crossed paths with so many souls that are part of my tribe, and their presence, physically has shown up in so many coincidental situations.  It's so hard to explain, but subtle treads of life really tie us together, and somehow that is expressed through our experiences together.

I would say my dreams are very vivid and easy to digest comedies about my deepest truest feelings and emotions.

[Aura]

Hey, I just found a book that could shed some more light into this interesting topic
It is called: Sex at Dawn: How We Mate, Why We Stray, and What It Means for Modern Relationships

“Sex at Dawn challenges conventional wisdom about sex in a big way. By examining the prehistoric origins of human sexual behavior the authors are able to expose the fallacies and weaknesses of standard theories proposed by most experts. This is a provocative, entertaining, and pioneering book. I learned a lot from it and recommend it highly.” — Andrew Weil, M.D.

 “Sex at Dawn irrefutably shows that what is obvious—that human beings, both male and female, are lustful—is true, and has always been so…. The more dubious its evidentiary basis and lack of connection with current reality, the more ardently the scientific inevitability of monogamy is maintained—even as it falls away around us.” — Stanton Peele, Ph.D.

A controversial, idea-driven book that challenges everything you (think you) know about sex, monogamy, marriage, and family. In the words of Steve Taylor (The Fall, Waking From Sleep), Sex at Dawn is “a wonderfully provocative and well-written book which completely re-evaluates human sexual behavior and gets to the root of many of our social and psychological ills.”

So I downloaded the torrent file and converted in a pdf.

http://dw4.convertfiles.com/files/0644503001377387662/sex%20at%20dawn-christopher%20ryan%5Borion_me%5D.pdf

I already started reading into it!

[bookittyrun]

Maybe I dont understand, but.. are there more than one people than can be actual Love? Not just Lust?
See, Ive been attracted to alot of girls.. but I dont know if I ever loved them tho.
I thought.. maybe its because theres just one girl that I will fall in love with? I dont know  .

maybe it's a reiteration, and maybe i should just keep quiet...   oops, too late.
i think the love is what should be lusted after, not the sex.  the sex is something to share with the one you love.  going about the process backwards doesn't seem to leave anything but an eventually dissatisfied feeling.  sex without the love seems a waste of time.
kaizen, i get the impression you are young?  your "lust" for the sex may just be you, not having matured enough to exercise control over your emotions and hormones?   is there one person just for you?  most likely.  when you meet her, do you wish to tell "the one",
"sorry, sugarplum... i can't fulfil the sexual aspect of our relationship because i have a warty, itchy dick...  got it from the last girl i thought i could love..." (?)

maybe i just sound like a "dad"...

[Dr. D]

maybe it's a reiteration, and maybe i should just keep quiet...   oops, too late.
i think the love is what should be lusted after, not the sex.  the sex is something to share with the one you love.  going about the process backwards doesn't seem to leave anything but an eventually dissatisfied feeling.  sex without the love seems a waste of time.
kaizen, i get the impression you are young?  your "lust" for the sex may just be you, not having matured enough to exercise control over your emotions and hormones?   is there one person just for you?  most likely.  when you meet her, do you wish to tell "the one",
"sorry, sugarplum... i can't fulfil the sexual aspect of our relationship because i have a warty, itchy dick...  got it from the last girl i thought i could love..." (?)

maybe i just sound like a "dad"...

Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man.

I've been quiet in this thread because I've only had deja vu to the degree of  knowing when I had it in a dream before and could say what's coming next twice. My other dreams about love have been nightmares about my ex wife. 

[bookittyrun]

Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man.

I've been quiet in this thread because I've only had deja vu to the degree of  knowing when I had it in a dream before and could say what's coming next twice. My other dreams about love have been nightmares about my ex wife.

no worries, no disrespect perceived at all.  and i know it's probably more an issue with me being somewhat of a "fuddy duddy", my opinion on the topic is definitely not what's considered "common", (which is why i stayed quiet until now) but i'm not trying to scare anyone with the old "std" line...  just hoping i can encourage good decision making, whether it's to sleep with someone, or not.   i know "young men" are not easily swayed by the rantings of a different perspective...  you will all live and learn in time, and many will learn different than me.  it's only my opinion, the idea that sex is more meaningful than just a physical connection.

may everyone live their own life to their complete satisfaction...  whatever the course they take.  as for me, i'm pleased with myself.

btw...  i consider myself fortunate to not dream about my ex...  living with her was a nightmare enough!     

[Iguana]

Yes, Jessica, I also sometimes observed  wonderful coincidences which could be due to telepathy and/or to Jung’s “synchronicity”.

Kaizen, it seems the normal relationships are triangular, meaning they imply 3 partners. It was the initial situation in your case, you said “she didn’t want to cheat”. If the normality of an open relation were recognized in our customs, there would have been no problem and her initial boyfriend wouldn’t have been left behind. You wouldn’t be in a binary situation now, but in a  natural triangular relation.  See my explanation here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836

Aura, What do you mean by “Unconditional Love”? Isn’t love necessarily unconditional?

Thanks for the pdf. Looks like a very interesting book. I just looked randomly into it and stumbled upon this, page 118:

Leaving aside the complications of defining rape in nonhuman species unable to communicate their experiences and motivations, rape—along with infanticide, war, and murder—has never been witnessed among bonobos in several decades of observation. Not in the wild. Not in the zoo. Never.
Doesn’t that warrant a footnote, even?

The Mysterious Disappearance of Margaret Power

Even apart from doubts raised by bonobos, there are serious questions worth asking about the nature of chimp “warfare.” In the 1970s, Richard Wrangham was a graduate student studying the relation between food supply and chimp behavior at Jane Goodall’s research center at Gombe, Tanzania. In 1991, five years before Wrangham and Peterson’s Demonic Males came out, Margaret Power published a carefully researched book, The Egalitarians: Human and Chimpanzee, that asked important questions concerning some of Goodall’s research on chimpanzees (without, it must be said, ever expressing anything but admiration for Goodall’s scientific integrity and intentions). But Power’s name and her doubts are nowhere to be found in Demonic Males.

Power noticed that data Goodall collected in her first years at Gombe (from 1961 to 1965) painted a different picture of chimpanzee social interaction than the accounts of chimpanzee warfare
she and her colleagues published to global acclaim a few years later. Observations from those first four years at Gombe had left Goodall with the impression that the chimps were “far more peaceable than humans.” She saw no evidence of “war” between groups and only sporadic outbreaks of violence between individuals.

These initial impressions of overall primate peace mesh with research published four decades later, in 2002, by primatologists Robert Sussman and Paul Garber, who conducted a comprehensive review of the scientific literature on social behavior in primates. After reviewing more than eighty studies of how various primates spend their waking hours, they found that “in almost all species across the board, from diurnal lemurs—the most primitive primates—to apes…usually less than 5 percent of their day is spent in any active social behavior whatsoever.” Sussman and Garber found that “usually less than 1 percent of their day is spent fighting or competing, and it’s unusually much less than 1 percent.” They found cooperative, affiliative behavior like playing and grooming to be ten to twenty times more common than conflict in all primate species.15

But Goodall’s impression of relative harmony was to change—not coincidentally, argues Power —precisely when she and her students began giving the chimps hundreds of bananas every day, to entice them to hang around the camp so they could be observed more easily.

In the wild, chimps spread out to search for food individually or in small groups. Because the
food is scattered throughout the jungle, competition is unusual. But, as Frans de Waal explains, “as soon as humans start providing food, even in the jungle, the peace is quickly disturbed.”

The mounds of deliciously smelly fruit locked in reinforced concrete boxes opened only for timed, regular feedings altered the chimps’ behavior dramatically. Goodall’s assistants had to keep
rebuilding the boxes, as the frustrated apes found endless ways of prying or smashing them open. Ripe fruit that could not be eaten immediately was a new experience for them—one that left the chimps confused and enraged. Imagine telling a room of unruly three-year-olds on Christmas morning (each
with the strength of four adult men) that they’ll have to wait an unspecified amount of time to open the piles of presents they can see right there, under the tree.

Recalling this period a few years later, Goodall wrote, “The constant feeding was having a marked effect upon the behaviour of the chimps. They were beginning to move about in large groups more often than they had ever done in the old days. They were sleeping near camp and arriving in noisy hordes early in the morning. Worst of all, the adult males were becoming increasingly aggressive…. Not only was there a great deal more fighting than ever before , but many of the chimps were hanging around camp for hours and hours every day [emphasis added].”17

Margaret Power’s doubts concerning Goodall’s provisioning of the chimps have been largely left unaddressed by most primatologists, not just Wrangham. Michael Ghiglieri, for example, went to study the chimps in Kibale Forest in nearby Uganda specifically in response to the notion that the intergroup conflict Goodall’s team had witnessed might have been due to the distorting effects of those banana boxes. Ghiglieri writes, “My mission…[was] to find out whether these warlike killings were normal or an artifact of the researchers having provisioned the chimps with food to observe them.” But somehow Margaret Power’s name doesn’t even appear in the index of Ghiglieri’s book, published eight years after hers.

We lack the space to adequately explore the questions Power raised, or to address subsequent reports of intergroup conflict among some (but not all) unprovisioned chimps in other study areas. While we’ve got our doubts about the motivations of Pinker and Chagnon (see below), like Margaret
Power, we have none about Jane Goodall’s intentions or scientific integrity. Still, with all due respect to Goodall, Power’s questions deserve consideration by anyone seriously interested in the debate over the possible primate origins of warfare.

[Dr. D]

No prob bkr. I probably should start a dream thread asking for help, but the ex thing is crazy. I remember at least 5 dreams enough to share and probably have had another 5 I vaguely remember. All different.

I agree that I think love and sex should be intertwined, probably why I haven't had any sex in over 1.5 years. My last partners I did care about enough that I would take them out and have then meet my friends etc.

Dreams are crazy. The more I get healthy (eat natural raw foods consistently) the more my dreams become vivid and more so; meaningful. Dreams were always a compilation of nonsense as long as I could remember. Now they speak to me more where I cannot deny that they are trying to say something. And it bothers me about my ex wife because I don't know what they are saying. Too much inconsistency.

[Wai Kai Zen]

Kaizen, it seems the normal relationships are triangular, meaning they imply 3 partners. It was the initial situation in your case, you said “she didn’t want to cheat”. If the normality of an open relation were recognized in our customs, there would have been no problem and her initial boyfriend wouldn’t have been left behind. You wouldn’t be in a binary situation now, but in a  natural triangular relation.  See my explanation here: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/re-can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101836/#msg101836

So  basically your saying that charlie sheen was right all along? Nice  .
Then again, maybe Bookittyrun is right and when I get older I will have the need for Love more than Lust.

[Iguana]

Charlie Sheen? Why? I didn't know who is this person and had to ask Google. Found this on Wikipedia about his ideas, apart that he married and divorced several times, which is not at all what I would do:

September 11 attacks

On March 20, 2006, Sheen stated that he questions the U.S. government's account of the September 11 attacks.[107] He said during the interview on The Alex Jones Show that the collapse of the World Trade Center towers looked like a controlled demolition.[108][109]

Sheen has since become a prominent advocate of the 9/11 Truth movement.[110] On September 8, 2009, he appealed to President Barack Obama to set up a new investigation into the attacks. Presenting his views as a transcript of a fictional encounter with Obama, he was characterized by the press as believing the 9/11 Commission was a whitewash and that the administration of former President George W. Bush may have been responsible for the attacks.[111][112]

Lust? Reciprocal ecstasy in orgasm when resulting of love is the most satisfying and enlightening experience. Nothing I know comes close to it. 

[Wai Kai Zen]

Oh sorry I thought everyone knew him!

Here; the reason why I made the connection with Charlie Sheen
Charlie Sheen and His Goddesses

Oh and also he is a famous actor 

[jessica]

Bkr, please understand I say this with the utmost respect towards you as an elder. But to me (as a young one also) stds are not the best way to scare me away from the beautiful girl that wants to do unspeakable things to me. Sorry man. Its a good argument, but not to a young man.  

yeh, that's the problem with being young.  and also the problem with then becoming old. once you have them it will be enough for you to regret that day, perhaps indefinitely, but we are limited in our thinking and considering of consequences in the moment.

[Iguana]

I was wondering what the hell you’re talking about. Then I had the idea to Google for “stds” and found that STD seems to stand for “sexually transmitted disease”. Ah!

So, what’s the problem? This forum is packed with posts explaining how bacteria and viruses are our valuable dear friends but you’re nevertheless afraid of them while being on a raw paleo diet? See the thread  “Bruno Comby's report on HIV”

[jessica]

have you ever had a wart iguana?

[Iguana]

For God’s sake, dear, why do you ask me that? The last wart I had was a plantar one which spontaneously disappeared about 15 years ago. Never had any on my penis — if that is the question, LOL 

BTW, I’m passionately reading “Sex at Dawn” discovered by Aura and linked in her above post. It’s an absolute must read for all of us, a real gem.

[Dr. D]

Haha I started reading it too and I'm quite enthralled.

[bookittyrun]

haha...  well, again, while it was not my intention to "scare abstinence" into anyone by mentioning std's, i will mutter one word that should strike fear into the hearts of you "young men"...

babies.

elaborating on what jessica mentioned, what defines the difference between "young men" and "kids", is the awareness of there being consequences to actions.  and what defines the difference between "young men" and "men" is the ability to take complete responsibility for one's actions, whatever the consequences.  i'm not trying to discourage you maturing guys (and gals) from exploring the big wide world, but to do so with the utmost discretion and self respect.  there's been a few threads floating around about "paleo love" and such, but remember, just because you eat a relatively "paleo" correct diet, does not mean you live in paleo times, or a paleo lifestyle.  life has changed a lot during the last 300,000 (or whatever) years, and the ability to procreate without repercussion may be a thing of the past.  imagine if everyone reverted back to this "procreate and proliferate" mindset...  the few remaining lush areas of fertile land we wish to wander would be converted into highrise apartments and agriculture fields to house and feed the bazillion people who would undoubtedly result from this type of "population mismanagement".  natural resources are already stretched thin, and those "damn christian types" who encourage maintainable mating practices no doubt could see overpopulation as an issue deeper than just being "perverse, in god's eye"...

mankind makes mother nature weary...  we have a responsibility bigger than appeasing our maturing, raging hormones, to take care of the earth...

oh, and for the record...  just because i have the word "elder" next to my avatar, do not mistake me for one...  i may have a few years on some of you "boys", but nearing middle age does not put me in the same category as some "elders"...  i'm just someone who has been there, done that, lived it up, and now i'm a little wiser for it...  my only intention is to pass on a different viewpoint, but feel free to make up your own mind...

[Iguana]

Sure, Bookittyrun, life has changed a lot during the last 200,000 or 300,000 years. But still procreation always had repercussions, even if these repercussions are different and/or more acute nowadays.

But “sexual” and “genital” are not synonymous. Moreover, sexual activity with genital contact does not necessarily imply coitus and its associated procreation. Women and men can have a sexual-physical relation with no or infrequent coitus. Orgasm doesn’t need to be during coitus, we don’t need coitus to reach orgasm.

It’s a cultural modern pattern initially due to religious dogma and later comforted by the false theorization that human sexuality single useful purpose is procreation, which made coitus the only ethically “normal” way to have an orgasm, the other ways being called “perversions” by the Puritanism. Human males obsessive drive for penetration may also well be due to opioids in grain and dairy amongst other abnormal substances in modern foods.

Love with physical-sexual contacts has another important purpose than procreation: the structuring of our psyche by transfer of energy-information between individuals. The dysfunction of such love hinders the ability to commonly experience extra-sensory perceptions (ESP). 

[Wai Kai Zen]

Talking about coincidence or maybe.. faith 

Ive seen my "dilemma" of Lust or Love come to life yesterday.
Ive met these two beautiful girls yesterday (theyre sisters) and both represent one aspect of my dilemma.

One girl is drop dead gorgeous and makes you want to skip the chatting (if u know what I mean).
The other girl is still beautiful, but more like an above average type looking girl, but this girl is awesome in every way.. her intelligence, humor, outlook on life, hobbys.. etc.

But for the first time in my life Im starting to be more attracted to the personality than to the looker.
I was getting bored really fast with the looker and the more I hung out with her, the less attractive she became.

I think Im gonna skip the looker this time and go for the other girl (who is still pretty, but more in a classic sense) to see where it may lead me.

So crazy for this to happen to me now Ive been thinking about it for the last few days  .