My 8 year old son has been diagnosed with tuberculosis

[goodsamaritan]

My son has been diagnosed with TB.  Story below.  Need your insights and advice.

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/09/malnutrition-primary-complex-cure-plan-for-my-8-year-old-son/

[carnivore]

My son has been diagnosed with TB.  Story below.  Need your insights and advice.

http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/09/malnutrition-primary-complex-cure-plan-for-my-8-year-old-son/

Wow, what a tragedy!
BCG vaccination is probably the cause.

I agree with the 3 first points, and IMHO, the other points are not necessary.
4. Milk is not tolerated by everybody and contains casein, lactose, hormones, etc. that cannot help your son.
5. Cod liver oil is always heated, and not required when grassfed fat is available.
6. Vegetable juices are full of toxins, antinutrients, pesticides, etc. and don't bring any essential nutrients. It will hurt your son's digestive system.
7. Why not raw fat instead of cooked fat ?
8. You son's organism needs also some rest. Why force-feed him ? Why cooked meat ?

This does not look like a low carb diet : coconut juice, water melon, a lot of dragon fruit, rambutan.

I hope you'll find a cure for your son.

[Iguana]

As Carnivore says,and I would add that it is of the utmost importance to avoid milk and anything cooked. Let him eat what he wants and what he likes as long as it is raw, unprocessed, unmixed and as wild as possible. What about water buffalo meat instead of or in addition to beef, as a choice? Do not force feed him: if is not hungry let him fast for a while or eat just a little bit, drinking plain water and/or coconut water.

Don't let him sleep under corrugated iron sheets, it gets wet in the night with condensation and try to move him away from polluted air (I don't know if you live in city ?).

Kids grow up slower without dairy products, don't worry about that: he'll catch up later.

Beware of gurus, medics included, and trust his own body self-healing power ! That's the best you can do and it'll be enough for him to heal.

Francois

[phatdave]

I think plenty of rest, raw animal fat, moderate raw animal protein or even better organs like liver (or heart etc), and low/very low or even zero carbs. Plenty of mineral water (of course not excessive), and not much quantity-wise for meals as digestion takes a signicant ammount of energy, so moderate. Minimise stress, like computer games, tv, intensive exercise etc. Maximise de-stressors, a little reading, walks, things that are fun like gental family games. Plenty of fresh air, and a moderate ammount of sunshine and light exercise, or very light exercise (like walks). Plenty of sleep, but not excessive.

If one insists on spices/herbs for certain reasons (like stimulating immune system) I would personally suggest them in the absolute smallest quantities. The body if give the environment it has adapted to it will run optimally, and although I can appreciate certain responces can be achieve using various herb remedies - i think they may be simultaneously stressing the body in doing so.

I think there is also an importance of listenning to signals your body gives, while being armed with the knowledge you have learnt.

I wish him all the best goodsamaritan, I will be thinking of him, and your family.

Sincerely

David

[TylerDurden]

I would suggest the conventional medical approach in this case(ie drugs and antibiotics). I know that's not popular on this forum but TB is a serious condition and given the bacterial nature of TB it might be best to have an antibacterial approach. Of course, antibacterial herbs like garlic are also an option.

Also, last I checked, milk is the worst thing one can drink re TB. Raw milk was heavily  implicated in TB cases, a century ago.

Re cod liver oil:- There is at least 1 genuinely raw cod liver oil from Blue Ice(fermented) and there may be others. In the past, of course, all cod liver oil was raw/fermented.

[Iguana]

I would suggest the conventional medical approach in this case(ie drugs and antibiotics).

Perhaps you're right. But you can also get natural, ancestral antibiotics by letting mildew or mold develop in a broken coconut. It can turn to have a good taste, especially if one needs it.

Also, last I checked, milk is the worst thing one can drink re TB. Raw milk was heavily  implicated in TB cases, a century ago.

I'm not surprised !

[Iguana]

This does not look like a low carb diet : coconut juice, water melon, a lot of dragon fruit, rambutan.

Until there will be kids entirely grown up from birth to healthy adults exclusively on their mother's milk followed by low carbs or zero carbs, it's advisable to see the zero carbs diet as an unproven and speculative theory. Only conclusive experimentation can validate a theory.   

[PaleoPhil]

Don't mean to scare you, but I think Tyler has a good point. TB is one of the diseases that killed many of the Native Americans who were eating much healthier than most people today, including lots of wild meats, so there is no guarantee that a raw Paleo diet would help the immune system beat the infection.

If I had TB I would use my Paleo diet as a support of conventional treatment, rather than a replacement. I do best on raw wild or pasture-fed meats and fats and water, but there's no guarantee that he would too. Children are an especially difficult situation. You should discuss what you can with the doctor, however, if you mention raw meat I'm thinking he might consider whether he should take the child away from you, so this is a difficult quandary. So I don't have any answers, just some thoughts and questions that I hope spark some of your own.

I think Tyler is right about any kind of nonhuman milk too. It is widely known that over 90% of Asians are lactose intolerant, so I cannot imagine giving him any milk.

[phatdave]

If I had TB I would use my Paleo diet as a support of conventional treatment, rather than a replacement. I do best on raw wild or pasture-fed meats and fats and water, but there's no guarantee that he would too. Children are an especially difficult situation. You should discuss what you can with the doctor, however, if you mention raw meat I'm thinking he might consider whether he should take the child away from you, so this is a difficult quandary. So I don't have any answers, just some thoughts and questions that I hope spark some of your own.

"If I had TB I would use my Paleo diet as a support of conventional treatment, rather than a replacement"

I forgot this very important point, and stupidly assumed this as generally agreed upon.

[goodsamaritan]

Thank you for the inputs everyone.  Keep them coming.  I know I can count on you guys.

I have a "conventional" TB germ killing protocol using the Beam Ray machine.  This should be able to replace the usual anti-biotics which operate indiscriminately killing good bacteria as well.  Beam ray targets specifically the TB germs and 1 week of every other day Beam Ray treatments is all you need instead of 6 months of antibiotics.

Just looking for safer, less dangerous methods out there.  TB drugs are out there and we know the dangers of anti-biotics... they're not entirely safe and may be fatal for some.  TB drugs is our last resort if all the other methods fail.

He's not coughing, no sniffles, thanks to an almost paleo diet save for rice the past few months.  He's been rice less for 2 days now... whoopee.

His day today was an almost raw paleo diet day... http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/11/8-year-old-boy-gunning-for-raw-paleo-diet-day-2/

[SkinnyDevil]

Tyler & PD make a good point.

Remember that TB is a bacteria...and there are several strains of it. Do they know which one caused his TB?

That will give them the insight to proper treatment.

The other thing to remember is that it may NOT be from the vaccine. TB is spread easily without direct contact (it lives in spit, the air, on surfaces, etc.) and, as such, infects millions of people every year. But MOST people's immune systems keep it in check and they never know they have it.

He needs, in addition to the antibiotics to kill off the mycobacteria (he'll likely be on these drugs for up to a year to kill it all), to have his immune system ramped up.

Good raw foods, sunlight, lots of physical activity, and laughter are the best prescription I know of.

[carnivore]

Until there will be kids entirely grown up from birth to healthy adults exclusively on their mother's milk followed by low carbs or zero carbs, it's advisable to see the zero carbs diet as an unproven and speculative theory. Only conclusive experimentation can validate a theory.   

This was just to point out that it is not a lowcarb diet contrary to what is written in the link ("Lessen sweet fruits. High fat, low carb dieting.")

[William]

IIRC it was pasteurized milk that was shown to cause TB in the 1800s.

I know not what caused your son's illness, but think that focussing on the germ is a mistake. I agree with Béchamp and Vonderplantiz that germs are an opportunist infection, not a cause.

There have been so many near-miraculous cures from people who do raw zero carb that I would be tempted to try it.

[PaleoPhil]

Please keep us posted about him when you can Goodsamaritan.

[Iguana]

His day today was an almost raw paleo diet day... http://www.myhealthblog.org/2009/08/11/8-year-old-boy-gunning-for-raw-paleo-diet-day-2/

So daddy gets rid of his rice and puts him on mono meals so he can eat more and more and more.

Eat more, more and more… ??

Back in late 50’s or early 60’s a friend of mine had a severe tuberculosis with an appalling medical diagnosis. He fasted for 30 days and completely and definitively self healed without any other means. He died a few years ago at about 85.

I don’t suggest a fast for your son, because we know better now since we have understood that cooked food, grain and dairy are the culprits and suppressing these stuff from our intakes is enough to let our bodies to heal almost every disease – malaria excepted.     

Gave him 1 shot 30ml of Ka Rey Herbal for vegetable nutrition

A processed mixture of several plants which is definitely not paleo.
 

At around 10 am he ate some half cooked beef.

Half cooked… what makes you seem to think that “half cooked” is not as noxious as “completely cooked” ? In fact, it even seems to be worse (réf. Burger’s experiments with mice in the 60’s: http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ecologie-Alimentaire/message/5934 ). Things in the real world are not linear as our limited understanding  and analytic mind makes us believe. A partly or slightly damaged organic molecule might well be more dangerous than a completely wrecked one which would be immediately recognized as such by our immune system and eliminated without being allowed into our metabolism.

A train with one hundred axles won’t be able to reach 95% of its maximum speed if only 5 of its 100 axles are derailed! It’s similar with raw against cooked food: we do not get rid of 95% of the troubles induced by cooked food by eliminating cooked food at 95% or cooking “just a little bit”. It’s in no way a linear relationship.

At around 2 pm he ate a good amount of fresh raw oysters dipped in organic coconut vinegar… he loves oysters. I also gave him fresh raw beef muscle blood and fresh raw beef sirloin muscle meat. Good meal.

Were oysters dipped in vinegar an usual recipe in the Paleolithic era ? Could they easily find almost simultaneously oysters, vinegar... and beef, mix the firsts and eat all this within a few minutes ?

I noticed his lack of appetite and his bad habit of skipping lunch altogether. Seems after being dismissed from class at around 12 noon he has no appetite for lunch and skips it altogether.

I’m teaching the boy that at his age he needs to eat 5 times a day. That a combination of rice and meat is a bad habit as it keeps you full because it is a hard to digest combination.

What about a combination of beef and oysters dipped in vinegar? How do you know that a boy of this age needs to eat 5 times a day, no matter if he’s hungry or not?? 

I’m setting up my boy for more nutrition soon hopefully with raw cow’s milk from a trusted source. His in between meals will be milk. Maybe instead of coconut juice or fruit he will have milk with fertilized egg mixed in it. My boy is not lactose intolerante. He digests milk very well.

The fact that he digests milk very well doesn’t mean that milk is ok for him. It well might be better not to digest and be allergic to such a food containing molecules able to disrupt our metabolism downstream of digestion. It is well documented today that animal milk can be dangerous for us and is better totally avoided. I didn’t read AV and I have no intention of doing so because I do not need any guru’s advices, especially when the guy teaches some irrational beliefs. 

All my whishes of recovery for you son.
Francois

[TylerDurden]

IIRC it was pasteurized milk that was shown to cause TB in the 1800s.

I know not what caused your son's illness, but think that focussing on the germ is a mistake. I agree with Béchamp and Vonderplantiz that germs are an opportunist infection, not a cause.

Actually, the TB cases were directly due to UNpasteurised milk. It was this that directly led to the promotion of pasteurisation of milk.

[SkinnyDevil]

I know not what caused your son's illness, but think that focussing on the germ is a mistake. I agree with Béchamp and Vonderplantiz that germs are an opportunist infection, not a cause.

While I agree with the spirit of this, it does not stand to reason that just because one has a compromised immune system that allows an infection like TB, that the CAUSE of TB is not the germ. The cause of the TB is still the TB germ. It was allowed to grow because of a compromised immune system.

As such, one still has to kill it AND improve the immune system.

If your argument is to ignore the germ to bolster the immune system (thus allowing the immune system to deal with the TB germ), that also makes a certain amount of sense, provided he's predominantly asymptomatic.

[SkinnyDevil]

Were oysters dipped in vinegar an usual recipe in the Paleolithic era ?
What about a combination of beef and oysters dipped in vinegar?

Francois,

Why do you say oysters &/or beef dipped in vinegar is paleo? Or have I misunderstood?

[Iguana]

No, I mean just the opposite, it is certainly NOT paleo, of course !

About bacterias and viruses, it seems to me GC Burger's theory has really clarified the dilemma between Pasteur against Bechamp and Tissot : according to GCB’s theory, yes there is contagion, but since known bacterial and virus diseases are, under strict paleo instinctive nutrition, beneficial detox processes, contagion is therefore... beneficial. It is dairy, grain and cooked food that leads to uncontrolled, accentuated and deadly detoxination processes. Of course, if we reintroduce several times daily precisely the kind of noxious molecules that our body is trying to get rid of, it may loose control of a process which was adapted only to small occasional amounts of such molecules.

25. Experience seems to show that most illnesses considered as infectious satisfy the preceding criteria, provided that alimentation strictly respects the norms defined by Anopsotherapy. One must therefore call into question the classical conception of the virus and the bacterium, which may no longer be considered as necessarily pathogenic agents. A virus in fact introduces into the cell a fragment of DNA or RNA which, by microscopic observation, seems to intervene as a sort of complementary program which augments the genetic code and which permits the elimination of various classes of toxins not originally foreseen ; to speak more precisely, non-original molecules. The bacterium, likewise, seems to be used by the organism (which perfectly regulates its multiplication under Anopsotherapeutic conditions) so as to provide, through a "third party", enzymes that can decompose non-original molecules or their undesirable by-products beyond the capabilities of its own enzymes (ones adapted, a priori, to original molecules).

26. Therefore, instead of battling against microbes by the use of antibiotics, vaccines, asepsis, etc..., the role of medicine will be rather to see that the organism succeeds in regulating in a satisfactory way the detoxination processes with which they are associated - perhaps even to seek means of instigating such processes so as to reestablish th integrity of the terrain and prevent true illness. In the present state of affairs, the apparent therapeutic successes obtained in infectious illnesses may be the cause of the rising mortality due to cancer and cardiovascular diseases, through an endemic increase in the incidence of toxemia.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggtheobasi.html

Cheers
Francois

[William]

Actually, the TB cases were directly due to UNpasteurised milk. It was this that directly led to the promotion of pasteurisation of milk.

This makes no sense.
Imagine an epidemic of TB, which ended when pasteurization was started. No way.

[Hannibal]

I know not what caused your son's illness, but think that focussing on the germ is a mistake. I agree with Béchamp and Vonderplantiz that germs are an opportunist infection, not a cause.

There have been so many near-miraculous cures from people who do raw zero carb that I would be tempted to try it.

I think the same way.
Bacteriophages are needed. They are found in large quantities in rotten meat, for example.
Ernest Hanbury Hankin, British bacteriologist, who studied malaria, cholera and other diseases observed in 1886 that Hindu people who drank water from Ganges River did not get sick of cholera. Félix d'Herelle, Canadian microbiologist, discovered that there were special viruses in the water which fighted the bacteria. They were successfully used by him in 1917 to fight dysentery in sick people.

[PaleoPhil]

My boy is not lactose intolerante. He digests milk very well.

Most people who are lactose intolerant display no noticeable symptoms and have no idea that they are. Remember, over 90% of Asians are lactose intolerant and most aren't aware that they are.

[SkinnyDevil]

This makes no sense.
Imagine an epidemic of TB, which ended when pasteurization was started. No way.

No way? Why not?

That there is a correlation does not yet even imply causation. No one here has asserted that pasteurization stopped the TB "epidemic"....yet.

That said, I'm not prepared to say pasteurization stopped a TB outbreak yet, but I don't see it as unreasonable. If cooking milk kills the TB bacteria, then cooking milk will stop the spread of milk-related TB. Period.

That in no way implies that cooking milk is the best way to deal with TB. It also does not imply that TB in milk will cause TB in humans who have fully engaged immune systems. By the time we started cooking milk, we had been eating grains and other sources of cheap & unhealthy calories for 10,000+ years. Outbreaks were - and still are - just waiting to happen.

[PaleoPhil]

Goodsamaritan, was your son diagnosed with just TB infection, or with the full blown disease?

[goodsamaritan]

via observation, muscle testing and x-ray shows he has something suggestive of Koch's infection.

And by observation his growth is stunted.  8 years old looks like 6 years old.  My next son is turning 6 next month and at the rate they are growing with my 2nd son having a vastly larger appetite, the 2nd son will be be larger next year.

A few months ago my 8 year old had persistent coughs and colds so I clamped down on diet and had them on an almost cooked / raw paleo diet save for rice.  That stopped all coughs and colds.

This time I'm able to get rid of rice as well so effectively my son is on a raw meat / cooked meat paleo diet.

Putting the squeeze more until he is on raw meat paleo diet.

BTW, I'm appreciating all the debating!  You guys are great!