Ultimate Martial Arts

[Raw Kyle]

I train at Hassett's jui jit su at 422 Delsea Drive (Rt. 47) Sewell, NJ 08080. I'm sure someone there or myself can demonstrate my techniques if you want to check it out.

[cherimoya_kid]

I train at Hassett's jui jit su at 422 Delsea Drive (Rt. 47) Sewell, NJ 08080. I'm sure someone there or myself can demonstrate my techniques if you want to check it out.

Is that a general invitation? 

[Raw Kyle]

Definitely. John Hassett has had many people from other schools come over.

[greywolve]

ahh that traditional martial arts vs mma debate.

we'll never know until a proper high ranking traditional martial artist squares off with fedor or someone similar. and even then it proves nothing.

i think its the artist not the art. and i think the person that will be most successful is the one which develops his own style which suits him. we all have strengths and weaknesses.

i also feel logic dicates that since fights in reality are brutal, direct and short that a simple and direct art would be the way to go. there's power in simplicity.

bruce lee had the right idea.

[Sully]

there's power in simplicity.

bruce lee had the right idea.

, i agree 

[SkinnyDevil]

ahh that traditional martial arts vs mma debate.

we'll never know until a proper high ranking traditional martial artist squares off with fedor or someone similar. and even then it proves nothing.

i think its the artist not the art. and i think the person that will be most successful is the one which develops his own style which suits him. we all have strengths and weaknesses.

i also feel logic dicates that since fights in reality are brutal, direct and short that a simple and direct art would be the way to go. there's power in simplicity.

bruce lee had the right idea.

Of course it's worth noting that Bruce's most famous book, "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do", is a mish-mash of sorts...kung fu, western boxing, wrestling, judo, fencing....

Just thought I'd stir the pot a tad.

===edit===

I wonder if Bruce Lee owned a hand gun? (stirring that pot a bit more)

[Sully]

true skinnydevil,

but skinny devil, what he did is simplified those arts he used, take what is useful, discard what is useless, and create what is essentially your own is what he believed, he used only certain techniques he saw effective from those arts, in one of his books, there's a section on the pros and cons of various arts,

[greywolve]

yeah. his style was a mish mash of arts. but he took what was good from each art like scully said. and tried to simplify as much as possible

[SkinnyDevil]

Yeah, and I have no problem with that. Just referencing earlier critiques in this thread that MMA is a "mish-mash" (and thus not as valid as older arts).

I think one of Bruce's greatest observations was the utility of western fencing. It HUGELY impacted his thinking & fighting, but it is largely ignored by modern martial artists.

[Hans89]

Look, I'm not talking about strip-mall karate/taekwondo/etc.. I'm talking about arts like Tai chi, xing yi, ba gua, (though I'm not excluding karate/TKD/etc. either) etc. Granted, the lines get extremely blurry, but basically, I'm talking about family systems and monk systems.  MMA is just a mish-mashed smorgasboard of oversimplified, crude versions of the real arts. A skilled practitioner of one of the "pure" family systems can easily defeat the biggest, most muscular, fastest, strongest MMA fighters. 

. . . . .

Sounds like pure fantasy to me. Not even one of these guys has given in to the temptation of making a fortune in pro MMA?

Meanwhile, though, I'd put myself against any of the MMA fighters in a no-holds-barred match, and maybe even an MMA-style bout, and I'm only about 140 pounds, and 5'8".  It's not size/speed/strength, it's training. I am extremely fast, but that's not why I feel sure of my prowess. I was fast before I got the best of my training, but I wasn't nearly as good then.

Why don't you enter an MMA competition then?

[SkinnyDevil]

I'm with Hans on this one.

While I think MMA fighters may feel their methods carry over into real life (to a certain extent they do, but not against multiple attackers, sharp objects, or guns, for example), I think many "traditional" martial artists (namely, those who study eastern arts) carry a false sense of security about their skills.

These veracity of these beliefs is easy to test, however.

[Raw Kyle]

Sounds like pure fantasy to me. Not even one of these guys has given in to the temptation of making a fortune in pro MMA?

Why don't you enter an MMA competition then?

I offered him a chance to demonstrate his techniques at my gym. I'm just an amateur but I would gladly demonstrate my techniques with anyone who is willing.

[Sully]

Anyone can be beat, that's the beauty of life. 

When it comes to hand to hand combat, or anything really.
Learn whats effective discard what's ineffective. Simple as that.

[pioneer]

What you need to learn is effective killing techniques. Too many martial arts nowadays focus on competition style and mean nothing out in the streets when a guy pulls out a knife, or multiple opponents face you. I like pekiti tirsia, krav maga, any kali art, and muay thai. You will need some bjj though because ending up on the ground is inevitable. However, you dont need to be a black belt, a blue, or purple would take care of most opponents. I am a blue now and spar with any size opponents who are not bjj practitioners, some can be 300 lb, but it doesnt matter, it is all technique and moving fast.

[DeadRamones]

think one of Bruce's greatest observations was the utility of western fencing. It HUGELY impacted his thinking & fighting, but it is largely ignored by modern martial artists.

This is true! I forget his name but there was a well known karate (point) fighter who published a few how-to books. He mentions one of his main reasons for success was that he incorporated fencing foot work.

[Hans89]

This is true! I forget his name but there was a well known karate (point) fighter who published a few how-to books. He mentions one of his main reasons for success was that he incorporated fencing foot work.

Yeah, but in fencing and karate point fighting, the fighters move back and forth on a straight line and don't really move sideways a lot. In full-contact combat sports, sidewards movement is very important, so I could see problems with fencing footwork there.

[SkinnyDevil]

The handwork is more what Bruce drew from than the footwork, as far as sport fencing. However, non-sport fencing texts are available. Spanish fencing footwork is superb.

As an aside, Musashi was exposed to (& influenced by) Spanish fencing techniques.

[leadahead]

I'd like to restart martial arts after a very long time away from Judo(I was a green belt). I like Judo for the hefty exercixse involved(it's like wrestling), but I'd also like something more combat-based, these days.

I've heard lots of good things about Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, but have also heard of how Ninjutsu-practitioners(led by Hatsumi) beat them hollow in Japan in those trial-fights that the BJJ guys like to setup to "prove" the superiority of their art. I'm certainly not in favour of any too specialist martial arts like taekwondo(too focused on the legs) or self-defence(like aikido). I want to kick someone's butt!

I've also heard of Krav Magna but it sounds too Israeli-specialised or whatever.

Anyway, any recommendations/suggestions?

As for me if we study the origins of martial arts it has its roots related to religion.

Religious people see martial arts as their way to improve their mind and body unity which some call it perfection.

It's sad that today some forgot the origins of martial arts.

After all when we all get old the real martial arts is MARTIAL HEART.

Thanks!

[SkinnyDevil]

As for me if we study the origins of martial arts it has its roots related to religion.

I hear this said and have read it a thousand time.

I also vehemently dispute it's accuracy.

Religious institutions may have adopted martial practices for exercise or moving meditation or spiritual refinement or any of the other things one reads, but hardly invented martial arts. Humans fought long before they invented religion. Thinking humans refined what little technique they had long before they sat in lotus. Humans fashioned a pointy stick long before they fashioned an idol.

Perhaps the root of modern eastern-based martial arts had it's roots in religion, but modern eastern-based martial arts are hardly the whole of martial arts.

[SkinnyDevil]

Here's your cave man martial arts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9jS80DwUKA

Anyone in CA who wants to check 'em out, tell Marc that Skinny Devil sent you.

[Brother]

Here's your cave man martial arts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9jS80DwUKA

LMAO!!! That shit's funny.

[SkinnyDevil]

Hahaha! Funny is not the typical reaction, but hey....

It's fun (though painful). I highly recommend a similar experience for all everyone at least once in a lifetime.

Here ya go - interesting all the way thru, but if you're short on time, just zoom to the last 2 minutes or so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML1OZCHixR0

This clip leaves out some crucial elements you get in the longer version....ape-men being driven from the water hole by another tribe; a leopard killing on of the ape-men; and then (after the epiphany of tool/weapons usage), killing a large animal for food and reclaiming the water hole by killing the leader of the opposing tribe.

[Hans89]

Interestingly the Dog Brothers call their principal strike the "caveman" 
Those guys are nuts. I've done sparring with the light kind of rattan sticks... It was painful enough. Huge bruises that took weeks to go away. These guys use the heavy version... crazy.

[Brother]

Hahaha! Funny is not the typical reaction, but hey....

Oh yeah, dont get me wrong. I love it. It is such a boyish thing to be inspired by Conan to whack the shit out of eachother with heavy sticks. All boys should do this as a mandatory part of their schooling!

[SkinnyDevil]

Hans: Yeah, rattan hurts like hell. Worse than the split bamboo of shinai (though a good thrust with shinia will crack ribs...speaking from experience!). Try rolling up newspaper real tight and wrapping with duct tape. A tad more forgiving than rattan or oak, but a GREAT training tool!

Brother: In all seriousness, I think it should be a mandatory part of every child's education (or at least a lighter version). All of my kids engaged in this sort of thing growing up...even my daughter!