Constant paranoia and anxiety with zero carb

[phatdave]

If anyone has any experience of paranoia and anxiety when on zc, please let me know - if it is just a phase, or perminate.

[Ioanna]

I feel decreased anxiety, but maybe that's because of my relief that symptoms (abdominal pain) are have so much lessened, that has made me so happy that I don't ahve to be afraid to eat anymore.

But I can understand for someone without health issues that maybe there could be an increase in anxiety... there absolutely nothing in a paleo diet or lifestyle to dullen/relax the senses.  You're completely aware.

[Raw Rob]

My anxiety actually lessened. Although, I transitioned to zero-carb slowly, which makes me think that it might be caused by yeast or other carb-created creatures dying off and creating toxins that affect your brain. (Or maybe it's the carbs themselves, and the withdrawal symptoms of not having them all of the sudden. I just don't know.)  

Maybe try weening off of the carbs very slowly. We have to do that with several drugs and the same symptoms occur in those situations.

That's actually the way I see carbs now, as drugs.  

  

[phatdave]

Interesting. Thanks guys. This support is so much help.

[van]

  I agree with Ioanna.  Your anxiety may have always been there, but you may have numbed it with carbs.  I have done that.  Anxiety for me now is directly related to an (unconscious?) unwillingness to be completely present.  So,,,, go into it, have fun with it, get to know it well.   You may also need a little more fat if you're eating too much protein, which can also cause excess insulin spikes. 

[PaleoPhil]

My anxiety actually lessened. Although, I transitioned to zero-carb slowly

Same here. Going mostly-raw carnivore has lessened my anxiety and increased my confidence, I've had no negative side effects and I also transitioned slowly. It seems like the people who have the most side effects are those who make the most dramatic changes, such as going cold turkey on carbs instantly. Unfortunately, some people have been turned off by these apparent side effects of a rapid and dramatic change and give up on it, so I'm wondering whether a gradual transition is the better way to go for most people. Maybe Lex should warn people more about this, since some may be trying cold-turkey ZC because he did that? He did it because he had severe medical problems that he was desperate to fix rapidly. This also gave him the motivation to stick with it. For other people, this may not be the best way to transition. I was inspired by his journal, but I didn't get the impression that he was recommending cold turkey for others, but maybe some people got that impression? He actually talked about the severe problems he had during his cold turkey transition, but maybe that message isn't getting across? I have wondered why so many people go the cold turkey route after the severe problems that multiple people had with that method.

Maybe try weening off of the carbs very slowly. We have to do that with several drugs and the same symptoms occur in those situations.

That's actually the way I see carbs now, as drugs.  

Good point, and someone told me that all addictive illicit drugs contain refined carbs.

[TylerDurden]

I didn't have paranoia while on zero-carb but I did get increased anxiety during my raw zero-carb trials(re mental effects:- first couple of weeks felt slightly enhanced mental acuity, then my mind rapidly dulled and I started having memory-issues and lack of concentration etc., before I finally gave up on the diet). I'd had various adrenal-related issues while pre-raw diet, and these came back causing anxiety among other issues. What I found interesting was that certain other conditions I'd had pre-raw diet, such as severely weakened teeth, suddenly started reappearing astonishingly quickly while I was doing zero-carb. Anyway, there has been a claim that going zero-carb puts an extra strain on one's glandular system, so that it might be better to eat a little fruit.

Incidentally, the claim re a slow transition always working certainly did not apply to me, as I, at the time, severely restricted my carb-intake for months before going zero-carb(not because I was planning the trial in advance, I was just on VLC diet(a bit of fruit once a week or fortnight in those days) because I wanted to save money, mostly. Now, my diet is more LC.

[PaleoPhil]

It seems like the people who have the most side effects are those who make the most dramatic changes, such as going cold turkey on carbs instantly. Unfortunately, some people have been turned off by these apparent side effects of a rapid and dramatic change and give up on it, so I'm wondering whether a gradual transition is the better way to go for most people.

Incidentally, the claim re a slow transition always working certainly did not apply to me, as I, at the time, severely restricted my carb-intake for months before going zero-carb(not because I was planning the trial in advance, I was just on VLC diet(a bit of fruit once a week or fortnight in those days) because I wanted to save money, mostly. Now, my diet is more LC.

Well I neither claimed nor believe that a slow transition "always" works, but thanks for sharing your experience. I'll create a poll so we can try to figure out if there's any tendency toward worse side effects from a more rapid transition or not.

[William]

Please keep in mind that not everyone who tries raw zero carb eats enough fat.
I found and find it hard to do so with raw thawed meat, not so with pemmican.

If this is the source of problems, then note the symptoms or rabbit starvation -

"This trouble is worse for the forest Indians who depend at times on rabbits, the leanest animal in the North, and they develop rabbit starvation.  This leads to headache, lassitude, a vague discomfort, and diarrhea. No matter how much they eat they will feel unsatisfied. Deaths from rabbit starvation are rare because everyone knows the situation and preventive steps are naturally taken."

Symptoms likely different for civilized man, may include paranoia, anxiety and/or other emotional/mental ills.
We need a definition of symptoms of various levels of fat deficiency. IMO

[TylerDurden]

I don't think anyone is foolish enough to go raw zero carb without eating sufficient fats. Everyone knows about rabbit-starvation.

[RawpaleoHealthdiet]

 Anxiety is mainly caused by sugar of the non-raw kind and even of the raw kind. But other toxins can also cause you to be anxiety and paranoid. Eating raw eggs with yolk and/or eating raw cream will very relaxing. Raw egg yolk gathers toxins. THis is why skinny people who are not 'well-round' and are eating the SAD diet are nervous wrecks. The toxins collect in there organs and muscle matter. This is why extemly fit atheltes like fedor had a pouch this is to collect the constant amount of toxins that they build up. Yes while excerisie may hel p move these toxins out of the body through sweating and well... moving the the body unless raw fat is added these toxins will be very hard to remove.

[Josh]

Well you know I had the same sort of problem and I told you my 'theory' about histamine and mineral deficiency.

Whether there's any truth in it or not, when I get enough mineral supplements or apparently oysters it takes away the paranoia, regardless of how much carb I've had or whether I've eaten crap food. Make of that what you will.

I did think about other causes, but I don't really buy the 'carbs are a drug holding it down' idea - when I was eating moderate carb and cut out all the food I tested allergic to I had amazing clarity without any paranoia, and it doesn't ring true that that's all down to eating carbs. Did it get worse when you were eating butter instead of suet? Maybe histamine response to dairy made it worse.

So FWIW I think that:

Foods that we're somewhat allergic to raise histamine...this can push you towards mental unbalance
Modern foods etc esp ones we're particularly allergic to cause long term mineral deficiencies/imbalances
There's some connection between the two factors, and other things like dopamine level come into it.

Possibly when you switch to all meat, your system needs time to adjust to different levels of nutrients and minerals in the diet?

Crackpot theories

Hope it gets better...keep us posted.

Josh

[William]

How about this: we know that our food, water, air and earth/sea are poisoned (supposed to politely call it pollution); it's not an accident.
The solution is pure food/paleofood, which is hard to find.
Those who live in a fool's paradise would see the above statement as paranoid, but we know better.

So if you are not paranoid, there's something wrong with your perception of reality. 

I love this stuff.

Crackpot theorizing AKA  tinfoil hat, but when I asked on one forum where that phrase is used, nobody could tell me where to buy tinfoild. All I can find is aluminum foil, got some. Wonder if I should make a hat of it for when I pass through the city? What say you?

[PaleoPhil]

Well you know I had the same sort of problem and I told you my 'theory' about histamine and mineral deficiency.

Whether there's any truth in it or not, when I get enough mineral supplements or apparently oysters it takes away the paranoia, regardless of how much carb I've had or whether I've eaten crap food. Make of that what you will.

I did think about other causes, but I don't really buy the 'carbs are a drug holding it down' idea - when I was eating moderate carb and cut out all the food I tested allergic to I had amazing clarity without any paranoia, and it doesn't ring true that that's all down to eating carbs. ....

I don't get the sense that anyone's claiming that carbs are the ONLY factor in anxiety, but they were indeed a major factor for me. I didn't have paranoia, but all I know is, when I reduced the carbs my anxiety levels went down with them, and that was true even of the carbs that did not test as allergic for me or produce any allergic symptoms. I wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't experienced it myself. As someone here explained to me, even so-called "Paleo" carbs can apparently contribute to mineral depletion in at least some people (like me), so carbs can apparently worsen existing mineral deficiencies and thus the problem can be multi-factorial. And yes, when I took the mineral magnesium, that did lessen the anxiety some, though not nearly as much as eliminating the carbs did. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Josh]

It's the other way round phil...some people proposed that carbs are what stops paranoia...I can see why they thought of that but don't agree.

[TylerDurden]

 I agree. When 1 component of the diet is really small(eg:- with VLC), then any negative symptoms are most likely to be due to the larger component, not the smaller.

[PaleoPhil]

It's the other way round phil...some people proposed that carbs are what stops paranoia...I can see why they thought of that but don't agree.

The thread started that way, but then Ionna, Raw Rob, Rawpaleohealthdiet and I shared that for us anxiety seems to be linked to sugars and carbs. It sounds like that is the case for you as well. So perhaps after phatdave's transition period his might decrease as well? No guarantee, but it's apparently possible.

On the other hand, Tyler shared how his anxiety also increased when he went ZC and thinks it might have been related to glandular issues. So that's something to consider as well.

[The Barbarian]

I'm 3 weeks into my cold turkey no carb raw meat diet. I've had some bad sugar cravings and some energy ups and downs but those are definitely passing. At this point I feel bouts of extreme calm and focus even slight euphoria, overall I have noticed a definite decrease in anxiety (I have experienced some very serious anxiety issues in the past).

That being said I have also had an increase in overall aggression. But it's a positive thing to me (especially as an MMA fighter)  it feels like a very confident, powerful, primal type of aggression. It's like my testosterone has doubled or something (and mine was already very high). I feel like I can take on anything in the blink of an eye and my mind is more able to focus on whatever needs to be focused upon.

Just my personal subjective 2 cents. So far SOOO  good!

[PaleoPhil]

Yeah, I'm still enjoying occasional mild euphoric feelings 3 weeks after going pure carnivorous, and I had already been VLC for months before that. I wonder how long they'll continue.

Supposedly the Inuit eat fermented fish and meats, rich in healthy bacteria, in part to boost the euphoria. The gut is the original brain, so it makes some sense. Perhaps the good bacteria are responsible for our VLC/ZC/carnivorous euphoria too.

[The Barbarian]

I have been letting hamburger sit in the fridge til its over a week old in some cases and it gets pretty syinky and a little slimy. I force myself to eat it cuz I've read all about the benefits of eating that bacteria. Maybe it is that bacteria thats making us feel so good. How awesome is that.

[TylerDurden]

I have been letting hamburger sit in the fridge til its over a week old in some cases and it gets pretty syinky and a little slimy. I force myself to eat it cuz I've read all about the benefits of eating that bacteria. Maybe it is that bacteria thats making us feel so good. How awesome is that.

There's already scientific proof linking bacteria to improvement in mood:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1547346/Getting-dirty-could-prevent-depression.html

[The Barbarian]

That is an awesome article thank you