Lex's Journal

[PaleoPhil]

Thanks. That guy's pretty funny! 

[Ioanna]

a clothes rack and fly screen, hmmmm... 

[lex_rooker]

Absolutely - no reason to mess with success. However, I also know that Danny Roddy chose to eat more pemmican (only) and all his symptoms (including the bruise/ rashes) disappeared quickly.

Actually this is not true.  Danny and I get together on a regular basis and he battled the rashes even while eating only pemmican.  We discussed the problem several times.  So, a diet of pemmican is not the cure for whatever was causing that particular problem. 

Sure does Lex - thanks again. However, I was more concerned with your view on the nutritional quality of the meat that I am prepping. (The post is just above this one for reference)

I really have no idea about the nutritional quality of the meat except that it appears to be just another form of jerky made with muscle meats.  To me it is not the quality of the biltong (or jerky, or other dried meat), but the missing organ meats that are the problem if this to be the major part of your diet.  Dried muscle meats are all about the same nutrition wise as long as they are dried at about the same temperature.  The seasonings have little effect in my experience, but then again, this is only my experience and I have no authoritative study to back it up.

Lex

[ILM]

Actually this is not true.  Danny and I get together on a regular basis and he battled the rashes even while eating only pemmican.  We discussed the problem several times.  So, a diet of pemmican is not the cure for whatever was causing that particular problem. 

Oh wow. I was directed to his site by Mark Sisson (Marks Daily Apple) and there was apparently a post there on his own site where he said that he cured the problem by eating more pemmican. Crikey - what to believe! Thanks for setting the record straight.

I really have no idea about the nutritional quality of the meat except that it appears to be just another form of jerky made with muscle meats.  To me it is not the quality of the biltong (or jerky, or other dried meat), but the missing organ meats that are the problem if this to be the major part of your diet.  Dried muscle meats are all about the same nutrition wise as long as they are dried at about the same temperature.  The seasonings have little effect in my experience, but then again, this is only my experience and I have no authoritative study to back it up.

Lex

Thanks Lex - this makes complete sense to me. I'll have to see what I can do about learning more about the organ meats nutritional qualities - as well as the dried muscle meats. Will post something here if I find anything of value. Appreciate your input.

[PaleoPhil]

Oh wow. I was directed to his site by Mark Sisson (Marks Daily Apple)

Hmmmph! You mean Mark didn't direct you to Lex, the world's leading expert on pemmican who taught Danny about it?

and there was apparently a post there on his own site where he said that he cured the problem by eating more pemmican.

Yes, it's here: http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2009/11/27/dry-fasting-its-gnarly-effects.html?currentPage=2 Later on he added cooked tubers to his diet, per Matt Stone's writings, and reported experiencing improvement in his cold tolerance: http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2010/7/14/i-used-to-think-matt-stone-was-a-douche-i-was-wrong.html. Most recently he's been experimenting with refined sugar, per Ray Peat's writings.

[lex_rooker]

I watch what people do and pay less attention to what they say.  Often things change from a person's initial statements or reactions but they never go on record to correct what they said previously.  Their purpose is not to mislead, it's just that they have moved on and their focus is elsewhere.  However, their ongoing postings often give the game away if you pay attention.  If a pemmican only diet was meeting Danny's needs then why would he be making so many changes?  I know Danny personally and he is a very rational person.  He doesn't make changes based on whim, he's trying to find something that works well for him.  Pemmican did help him clear up many of his health issues, but there were some things that just didn't respond as he had hoped and so he's mixing things up a bit to see if he can get further improvement.  I certainly don't fault him for that.  I'm all about what works, and if what I'm doing stops meeting my needs I'll change in a heartbeat.

Looking at what at a person does over the long term often gives you a far more accurate picture than what they say in each posting.  I also pay attention to what is missing from a persons posts.  Sometimes as much or more information is conveyed by what is not said than what is put on public display.

Lex

[ILM]

Great post Lex - and its an outlook that I personally espouse too.

Unfortunately, the internet is not a complete window into one's doings, and I think your unique position in knowing Danny allows you to have a better insight than those of us just reading from a distance - with broken links and half the information.

Really enjoyed what you had to write - and I too, would never fault someone who is sincerely trying to work out what works best for them.

[PaleoPhil]

I agree, Lex.

I thought of you when I read this:

"Maybe I have been reading too much into those descriptions, but it seems to me that one distinctive feature of many adults in hunter-gatherer populations, when compared with adults in urban populations, is that the hunter-gatherers are a lot less obsessed with food.

Interestingly, this seems to be a common characteristic of physically active children. They want to play, and eating is often an afterthought, an interruption of play. Sedentary children, who play indoors, can and often want to eat while they play." - Ned Kock, http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/05/intermittent-fasting-as-form-of.html

[lex_rooker]

Phil,
I spend as little time as possible eating and almost no time thinking about food.  I spend my time doing other things that I'm passionate about.  Sometimes I'm so involved with what I'm doing that I forget to eat.  I remember when I was a kid and we had the big holiday gatherings.  I really didn't like them because it interrupted my routine.  I longed go out and play with my friends, but instead had to sit around all day waiting for a big meal of food that I didn't really like.  I suppose I've now come full circle as for the Easter holiday I was forced to spend the entire day doing nothing while waiting for a huge dinner I wasn't going to eat.  The festivities started around noon with chips and dip, tons of finger foods, and lots of soft drinks for the kids and booze for the adults.  It worked up to a massive dinner with lots of pasta, grain based dishes, and over cooked meats.  This was followed by about 20 different deserts of puddings, pies, cookies, cakes, and a variety of fruits.  I ate my normal food before going and ate none of the food or drink that was provided at the party.  The whole ordeal took about 10 hours and I longed to go out to my shop and play.

Second childhood?

Lex

[larrymagee]

Hi Lex - I'm posting here, now, because I'm trying out eating only raw again.  I think I read in your journal that you add rendered fat to your Slankers mix.  Is that right?  I was wondering why not just add raw fat.  Is it a taste thing?

Regards,

[lex_rooker]

Hi Larry, and welcome.
I use rendered fat for convenience.  I can render and store large amounts of fat without refrigeration.  This saves lots of time and mess as I don't have to grind fresh fat every time I make my food mix.  I just thaw my meat, mix in the additional rendered fat, portion out into ziploc bags, and I'm done.  No mess, no fuss.  Would raw fat be better?  Maybe, maybe not, who knows for sure.  All I can say is that what I'm doing is very successful and seems to be meeting my needs.   

I render fat over one weekend once a year at which time I render between 150 and 200 lbs for my own use and often another 200-300 lbs for others.  I hold a rendering party and others that are interested come over and we render away.  I have 3 induction hobs with 60 qt stainless steel pots that I set up in my garage, each of which can render 50 lbs of fat every 4 hours.   I then store the rendered fat in 12 to 24 quart plastic containers that I put into insulated ice chests and store in the garage.  The ice chests protect the fat from excess heat, light, and moisture.  I use the fat for my own consumption as well as making pemmican to send out as samples.  Last year I sent out over 100 lbs of pemmican samples all over the world.

Lex

[Löwenherz]

Dear Lex,

do you see any difference regarding digestion between raw beef fat (suet) and cooked/rendered beef fat (tallow)?

Years ago, when I was following a predominantly cooked paleo diet I noticed that my digestion was much better when I was eating only cooked fat. Raw beef fat often caused liquid stools. Today I believe that only raw fats from grain fed animals give me problems.

Cooked animals fat also increased the stool diameter to 'normal' levels (like when eating carbs).

Löwenherz

[larrymagee]

Hi Larry, and welcome.
I use rendered fat for convenience.  I can render and store large amounts of fat without refrigeration.  This saves lots of time and mess as I don't have to grind fresh fat every time I make my food mix. 
Lex

Thanks, Lex.  I find the question of 100% raw or not to be very interesting.  I would think that eating a lightly seared, thick steak where 99% of it is still raw is about the same as eating your mix that includes a little cooked fat.  But I do seem to feel different when it is totally raw (I get full on less and don't get hungry as soon; I feel clearer mentally, + it seems to digest better most of the time).  It's hard to comprehend why that would be.  Maybe it's that the taste of cooked triggers an insulin release.

The dietary leukocytosis theory that showed cooked food causing a rise in white blood cells doesn't explain the difference between 100% and 99% raw because Dr. Paul Kouchakoff, who came up with the theory in the 30's, tested and concluded that eating raw along with cooked didn't raise the white blood cell count (back to our seared steak being = to raw). 

 Maybe the living microorganisms on the surface of the raw steak come into play.   Maybe it's all in my head that there is any difference between raw and lightly seared at all.

Food for thought (pun intended).   

Have a great weekend.

[ILM]

..... I hold a rendering party and others that are interested come over and we render away.  I have 3 induction hobs with 60 qt stainless steel pots that I set up in my garage, each of which can render 50 lbs of fat every 4 hours.   I then store the rendered fat in 12 to 24 quart plastic containers that I put into insulated ice chests and store in the garage.  The ice chests protect the fat from excess heat, light, and moisture.  I use the fat for my own consumption as well as making pemmican to send out as samples.  Last year I sent out over 100 lbs of pemmican samples all over the world.

Lex

If a "fat rendering party" doesn't fly in the face of conventional wisdom and the old "low fat, high carbs" dogma, then I'm not sure what does! 

[ILM]

Hey Lex,

Finally! I managed to source 2kgs of "beef rib fat" offcuts from a friend of mine at the meat shop. I was toying with an experiment: eat 80/20 fat/protein for a week and see how I feel. If its all good, continue for another week, etc.

So, I'd like to ask you for your informed opinion on beef rib fat - is it good stuff, or utter crap, or somewhere in between? I noticed that 1 ounce (30grams) of beef fat weighs in at circa 260cals, so it should be pretty easy to calculate.

My experiment is to see if I can lose those last few %'s of extraneous body fat. After reading your entire experiment, there's no question that I'll be adding my daily exercise too.

Thoughts good Sir?

[lex_rooker]

Hey Lex,

Finally! I managed to source 2kgs of "beef rib fat" offcuts from a friend of mine at the meat shop. I was toying with an experiment: eat 80/20 fat/protein for a week and see how I feel. If its all good, continue for another week, etc.

So, I'd like to ask you for your informed opinion on beef rib fat - is it good stuff, or utter crap, or somewhere in between? I noticed that 1 ounce (30grams) of beef fat weighs in at circa 260cals, so it should be pretty easy to calculate.

When eating fresh fat I really don’t have any personal preference.  I usually purchase suet because I render and use the fat for pemmican. 

My experiment is to see if I can lose those last few %'s of extraneous body fat. After reading your entire experiment, there's no question that I'll be adding my daily exercise too.

Thoughts good Sir? 

You may be disappointed in the long term because once your body is fully adapted to using fatty acids for fuel then calories count again and there’s a good chance you’ll gain weight if you don’t reduce the amount you eat when you raise the fat content.

Lex

[ILM]

Thanks Lex,

I did the mix at 80/20 - and I replicated your experience: I felt lethargic within 40mins of eating the mix. I felt literally awful and queasy for the next 6hrs. Whats interesting is that I only ate one meal the whole day, without desire to eat again.

Not such a fun thing to do. I reckon caloric value was below daily maintenance level. Interesting one day experience.

[Sully]

Hey Lex, I listened to that interview you did with joanneunleashed.com.
It might be old news to some. It was a pretty cool interview, very truthful and honest. Thanks for doing it, it means a lot to me and others. I found it on facebook, someone posted it. I posted it on my page as well.

Is that the first audio interview you did?

[Sully]

Last year I sent out over 100 lbs of pemmican samples all over the world.

Lex

Amazing!

[lex_rooker]

Thanks Lex,

I did the mix at 80/20 - and I replicated your experience: I felt lethargic within 40mins of eating the mix. I felt literally awful and queasy for the next 6hrs. Whats interesting is that I only ate one meal the whole day, without desire to eat again.

Not such a fun thing to do. I reckon caloric value was below daily maintenance level. Interesting one day experience.

One day doesn't tell you much.  If you really want to understand how your body will feel you'll need to do this for several months and let your body adapt to the higher fat levels over time.

[lex_rooker]

Hi Sully, You're looking amazing as usual.  Ah, to be young.....

I did the interview with Joanne and was pretty pleased with it.  She wanted to do a full Skype Video interview but I don't have the equipment for that and my internet connection is rather slow so she had to settle for audio only.  I'm glad people are finding it valuable.  I try to be honest and state the good as well as the bad.  This way people can better make up their own minds. 

Lex

[Sully]

Hi Sully, You're looking amazing as usual.  Ah, to be young.....

I did the interview with Joanne and was pretty pleased with it.  She wanted to do a full Skype Video interview but I don't have the equipment for that and my internet connection is rather slow so she had to settle for audio only.  I'm glad people are finding it valuable.  I try to be honest and state the good as well as the bad.  This way people can better make up their own minds. 

Lex

Thanks Lex.

Yeah, Joanne seemed like a very nice person, too bad you couldn't get a video interview. Lex, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your honesty (in the interview and here on the forum). You are truly are an inspiration to me. Your honesty is a breath of fresh air my friend, and your story is amazing. Lots of appreciation for what you have done. Hah, even though it was a selfish journey like you once stated, just trying to better yourself with diet to achieve your own goals. But in the end you are helping a lot of people.

[PaleoPhil]

hear, hear

[Löwenherz]

One day doesn't tell you much.  If you really want to understand how your body will feel you'll need to do this for several months and let your body adapt to the higher fat levels over time.

Lex,

may I ask you this question again:

Do you see any difference regarding digestion between raw beef fat (suet) and cooked/rendered beef fat (tallow)? Frequency, stool diameter etc...

Löwenherz

[lex_rooker]

Do you see any difference regarding digestion between raw beef fat (suet) and cooked/rendered beef fat (tallow)? Frequency, stool diameter etc...

Nothing significant that I've noticed.  Sometimes if there is a large amount of connective tissue in the fat some of the raw fat won't get fully digested, but if it is well ground and/or chewed then everything seems to digest well - cooked or raw.  Can't say that stool diameter changes much with cooked or raw either, however, if I eat very high fat meals (80% of calories or above) then stools are soft and mushy, lower fat meals (60%-70% of calories) and stools are firm and well formed.

Lex