Lex's Journal

[lex_rooker]

Phil,
I'm aware of the quote regarding AGEs in urine.  It makes perfect sense that anything consumed will have to be handled by the kidneys, liver, and other organs as waste.  This is no different than any other waste products in the body.  This is what these organs are supposed to do. 

If you will notice the quote states that "dietary AGEs might significantly contribute to the total AGE load of the human body." - not that they DO contribute.  If they are being processed by the kidneys then they are being removed from the body in the urine.  Because they are being processed by the kidney then the kidney is exposed to these AGEs.  Does the study state that it can be conclusively proved that the kidney is damaged by the specific exposure of AGEs to the exclusion of all the other waste products that are continuously processed by the kidneys?

If dietary AGEs are removed from the body by the kidneys and other waste processing systems, what evidence do we have that dietary AGEs contribute significantly to any identifiable illness of the kidneys or otherwise?

Most studies I've seen are filled with weasle words like "might", "could" and "possible".  In fact the last sentence in the summary you quoted is as follows: 

"To date, however, no conclusive answers or recommendations can be given regarding a possible role of AGEs as uremic toxins in general, and of dietary AGEs in particular." 

I see nothing conclusive here.  Just speculation based on the fact that the kidneys are removing dietary AGEs from the blood stream and flushing them out of the body through the urine.  This seems like the kidneys are doing their job and that is a good thing.

Lex

[PaleoPhil]

As usual, Lex, I agree with everything you wrote. You almost make me superfluous, generally, which is actually comforting. The one perhaps slight different tilt I would add is that the default position should not be the current modern AGE-rich diet that includes cooking, but the ancient raw diet that all wild animals and ancient wild humans, consume(d). The case needs to be made for the innovation of cooking, not for the millions-of-years-old practice of eating raw foods.

That doesn't stop me from heating some of my foods, but it does cause me to question, now and then, why I bother. Nonetheless, like you, I don't worry much about a smattering of AGEs here and there, in part given that I probably consume far less than the avg. moderner.

[TylerDurden]

So far, intake of dietary AGEs absorbed into the body is estimated at 30% of the total of all dietary AGEs consumed. So it is a considerable amount. The natural amounts of AGEs created by various natural processes in the human body are tiny by comparison(the Maillard reaction producing AGEs via cooking creates tons more AGEs due to heating).

The claim re "would/should" etc. is just mere equivocation. After all, most scientific theories have studies using such words, even when the evidence is 99.99999999% certain, due to thousands of years of experimentation. Even the theory of evolution is not perfect either in all respects so needs the use of such words.

The argument that one cannot do anything about AGEs is, of course, nonsense. One can limit AGE-intake by eating diets that are  100% raw, or  by avoiding non-palaeo foods as they also stimulate AGE-creation, and also reduce AGEs in the body by doing lots of exercise and therefore reducing inflammation. One can also increase the quality of one's food by eating wild game/wild seafood instead of lower quality fare(AGEs, apparently, are in quite high amounts in intensively-farmed meats, even when raw). I also suspect, given the above data,  that  humans produce far lower amounts of naturally-occurring AGEs within their body as long as they are  particularly healthy(ie doing lots of exercise and eating a rawpalaeodiet).

There's now a general concensus among scientists that inflammation is linked to aging. Since AGEs are heavily involved in the inflammation process, it makes sense to reduce them.

[goodsamaritan]

All those weasel words are a case to case basis.  It's nice of Lex to do his experiments and let us know how it is going.

I know I personally can only take so much cooked food.  An entire day of cooked food  and I lose some of my super powers the next day.

[lex_rooker]

Phil,
We're generally on the same page and often seem to complete the other's thoughts.  In my case that's very helpful as I often don't express my thoughts as well as I would like.

Tyler,
Unfortunately it has been shown that just because there is general consensus on something that doesn't make it true.  There has been general consensus on just about every medical boondoggle throughout history.  If anything, this forum is anti-consensus - and that is what makes it valuable.

GS,
I must not be as sensitive as many on this forum.  I eat a cooked steak meal as my only food about 3 days out of the month.  I've never felt any different on the cooked days from the days that I eat completely raw.  Maybe it's because I don't have super powers to start with so there's nothing to lose... 
Lex

[lex_rooker]

Nothing exceptional to report on the Iodine Protocol front. 

No identifiable detox symptoms.

Morning basal temp is running around 97.0 F give or take 0.75 depending on the room temperature and how well I'm covered.  Not sure this is telling me much.

Up 3 to 4 times per night which has been my norm so no change here

Since nothing is changing much at this point, I'll try to report once a week or so rather than everyday.  I'll also report if/when I make a change or something happens like a detox reaction.  The next planned change is to move from 50mg/day to 100mg/day.  I plan to do this in another 3 weeks.  That would be one month at the 50mg level then move to the 100mg/day level and stay there for the next 5 months.  Not sure yet if I'm going to jump straight to 100mg or do a couple of weeks or a month at an intermediate level of say 75mg/day.  Since I've had no toxic effects at the 50mg level, which is considered a very high level when first starting this protocol,  I'm leaning towards jumping directly to the 100mg level.

The adventure continues,

Lex

[Bio-shell Avatar]

Also did a patch test.  This is admittedly not very accurate, but does apparently show in a general way how well saturated your body is with iodine.  The theory is that if the patch disappears within 4 hours then you are highly deficient, if it lasts 4- 8 hours then you are high-moderate deficient, if it lasts 8-12 hours then you are moderately deficient, 12-18 hours light to moderately deficient, and 18-24 hours you are lightly deficient, and anything over 24 hours means your tissues are probably pretty saturated.  Some think this test is totally useless but I thought I'd try it anyway and see what happens.

based on my own observations i'd say the patch test may be an indicator of iodine deficiency but i'm not convinced. it definitely disappears faster if iodine has been absent in the diet and stays longer after iodine has been put on the skin daily for a week or longer (on top of supplementation). i tried it in the beginning and stopped the topical application when the stains were still visible after a day. when i apply iodine topically these days (usually just a small patch once a week where i place my b12 shot) the spot has almost disappeared after half a day. that could either mean my daily 25mg iodine dose is too low or that there's a difference between tissue saturation if iodine is only ingested or both ingested and applied topically.

btw, in the beginning i took about 100mg iodine every now and then after the bromide detox symptoms had ceased and didn't notice any adverse effects. i'm quite sure you can safely up your intake to 100mg since you didn't even detox anything when you started (which is very unusual from what i've read).

That's very interesting. Please tell us more about the positive outcome of your iodine supplementation. What have been the benefits?
Löwenherz

i didn't have many issues to begin with and supplemented iodine together with a host of other things so i can't really pinpoint any long term benefits. however, something that i definitely noticed was more energy and alertness after a day or two of supplementation and some bromide detox symptoms (skin rashes mostly which disappeared after 2-3 days). it may also have increased my basal temperature somewhat although during that time i was still in a vegetarian/vegan period (mostly raw) and consequently always a little frosty.

[...]Nevertheless the argumentation of the DGE somehow makes sense to me. They say that after eating very low levels of iodine for decades and generations as in some parts of the world our bodies have adapted to such low levels and that a sudden and very drastic increase causes problems.
Löwenherz

the only problems it can cause is detoxification. of that i'm 100% certain. when i started taking lugol's i watched all videos and read everything i found about iodine supplementation incl. lots of feedback from others and all of them improved because of the increased iodine intake. the problem is that bromide is really insidious, it's in certain foods, drinks, in flame retardants (carpets, new cars, mattresses, you name it) and it WILL accumulate in the body if our iodine intake is too low. for almost everyone that has been the case for years or decades. it causes lots of problems that almost no doctor or health practitioner would attribute to bromide poisoning because most of them don't even know that it's a common toxin and occupies the iodine receptors everywhere in the body. not to mention fluoride or the heavy metals iodine helps to detox. imo iodine is one of the most important supplements besides magnesium, vitamin d (at our latitudes) and perhaps krill oil.

[PhilB]

Hi Lex,

Reading and following your developments on this forum, I would like to thank you for sharing this valuable information.

I have been taking 6 drops of Lugol's 5% for 5 days now and I'm noticing that my blood glucose appears to be affected. Before the Lugol's, it would usually be in the mid to high 90's in the afternoon, well after two of my three meals (keto / no carbs / 60% fat / 40% protein). But for three days now it has been in the 70's, dipping down to 67 today afternoon (Europe time).

Based on your observations on modifying your fat to protein ratios, I had attributed my relatively high blood glucose to my relatively high protein intake. While obviously too early to say, I'm beginning to wonder if the iodine may be affecting the amount of protein my body is converting to glucose. Or, if it could be causing glucose to be used or otherwise taken from the blood, through increased insulin sensitivity, perhaps.

I bring this up to see whether you might not be inclined to start monitoring your blood glucose again (assuming, of course, you currently aren't).

Philip

[TylerDurden]

Not sure how long you intend to give the iodine protocol. But, if you run out of ideas, use of  raw apple cider vinegar(the best has "mother of vinegar" in it) might be an idea. Also, if you are drinking from the tap and the water's processed/chlorinated etc., you might consider trying alkaline mineral water. I don't need the latter right now as the city-district I'm in currently gets its water from the mountains. However, in London, I could tell there was a big difference between when I consumed London tapwater, and when I drank only alkaline mineral water.

[PaleoPhil]

Lex, by morning basal temp, do you mean armpit temp? Just want to make sure I understand you, thanks.

[lex_rooker]

Lex, by morning basal temp, do you mean armpit temp? Just want to make sure I understand you, thanks.

I take normal oral temperature under the tongue.  Never understood the benefit of taking armpit temp.

I bring this up to see whether you might not be inclined to start monitoring your blood glucose again (assuming, of course, you currently aren't).

I hadn't thought of this.  I haven't measured my BG for a long time as it has been stable for so many years.  Since iodine is supposed to support an increased metabolism it probably makes sense to start measuring it again.

@Bio-shell - thanks for giving us more detail.  I was curious as were others. Information like this is helpful to those trying to decide if something like this is worthwhile for them.

@Tyler - I used to do the apple cider vinegar thing years ago.   Back in the 60s and 70s it was in vogue mostly started by Dr Jarvis in his book "Vermont Folk Medicine" published in the late 1950s I think.  As I remember he mentioned iodine as well, but that never caught on.   Natural Hygienist Paul Bragg picked up on the ACV thing and published a book dedicated to the subject as well has creating his own brand of ACV still available in health-food stores today.  During my vegetarian/vegan years I used to drink a quart of water mixed with apple cider vinegar and honey everyday.  I enjoyed it but can't say that I ever noticed any benefit from it.  I continued to drink it because all the gurus said it was the thing to do and I liked the taste.

Lex

[lex_rooker]

Since Phil asked the question about how I was measuring basal temperature, and he usually has a solid reason for such things I thought an experiment was in order.  This morning I took my temperature both at armpit and oral under the tongue.

Oral temperature was 97.04 and armpit was 97.01.  That is a difference of 0.03 deg F, or less than 1/2 of 1/10 of a degree.  To me this difference is insignificant so I'll continue to take my temperature orally as it is easier and takes less time for the temperature to stabilize.

Lex

[Bio-shell Avatar]

I have been taking 6 drops of Lugol's 5% for 5 days now and I'm noticing that my blood glucose appears to be affected. Before the Lugol's, it would usually be in the mid to high 90's in the afternoon, well after two of my three meals (keto / no carbs / 60% fat / 40% protein). But for three days now it has been in the 70's, dipping down to 67 today afternoon (Europe time).

Based on your observations on modifying your fat to protein ratios, I had attributed my relatively high blood glucose to my relatively high protein intake. While obviously too early to say, I'm beginning to wonder if the iodine may be affecting the amount of protein my body is converting to glucose. Or, if it could be causing glucose to be used or otherwise taken from the blood, through increased insulin sensitivity, perhaps.

i'm pretty sure it reduces blood sugar because it a) increases insulin sensitivity (possibly) and b) increases metabolic rate so more sugar is burned or rather, the available sugar is burned faster (very likely).

this could be the reason why many overweight people lose weight simply by taking lugol's. obesity is often caused by a sluggish thyroid because that inevitably decreases metabolic rate.

also, since there supposedly are iodine receptors on all cells of the body and several or all glands require certain amounts of iodine to function properly, the cells may get more sensitive to glucose when iodine occupies its receptors instead of bromide or fluoride and the entire endocrine system may also benefit from the higher iodine intake. the hormones then could help to improve the use of blood glucose, among other things.

[lex_rooker]

i'm pretty sure it reduces blood sugar because it a) increases insulin sensitivity (possibly) and b) increases metabolic rate so more sugar is burned or rather, the available sugar is burned faster (very likely).

this could be the reason why many overweight people lose weight simply by taking lugol's. obesity is often caused by a sluggish thyroid because that inevitably decreases metabolic rate.

also, since there supposedly are iodine receptors on all cells of the body and several or all glands require certain amounts of iodine to function properly, the cells may get more sensitive to glucose when iodine occupies its receptors instead of bromide or fluoride and the entire endocrine system may also benefit from the higher iodine intake. the hormones then could help to improve the use of blood glucose, among other things.

Not sure how accurate any of this thinking is.  I've been monitoring my BG for the last couple of days and it has risen an average of about 10 points throughout the day.  Just had my labs completed before starting this iodine adventure and my fasting glucose was in the low 80s.  This year's labs were taken just before eating my daily meal which is why it was 10-15 points lower than other labs.  Normal morning fasting BG is usually right around 99-100, and BG stays around 100 most of the day except right before my daily meal at which point it drops 10 points or so, and then rises above 100 for a few hours directly after eating before dropping back to around 100 in the evening and stays there until the cycle starts over again.

Since PhilB suggested that I check BG a couple of days ago, with the expectation that it would probably drop a little, every time I've checked it over the last 2 days it has been 10 points or so higher than my previous normal. 

Evening of 10/9  - 113 mg/dl
Morning of 10/10 - 110 mg/dl
Evening of 10/10 -  111 mg/dl
Morning of 10/11 - 113/mg/dl

Can't say this is good or bad, only that this is what I'm measuring.

Lex

[PaleoPhil]

Since Phil asked the question about how I was measuring basal temperature, and he usually has a solid reason for such things I thought an experiment was in order.

Those who are big on taking temperatures and consuming iodine seem to insist on armpit temp for some reason. Like you, I mainly took my oral temp., because it was more convenient for me. Recently, I have experimented a bit and noticed that if I eat something cold or hot before taking my oral temp., it tends to skew the result, so maybe that's one reason they go with the armpit? If you do not eat anything for hours before taking your temp., it may not matter.

One of the few questions I occasionally ponder re: your experience, Lex, is that it seems that nature does not care much for consistency. It seems to more favor random variation, fractals, power laws, seasonality, feast and famine, and so forth, but I am rather ignorant on such matters.

[Dorothy]

In the hospitals they assume that the armpit readings will be a degree lower than oral.

[lex_rooker]

In the hospitals they assume that the armpit readings will be a degree lower than oral.

This may be  because it takes much longer for the temperature to stabilize than when taken orally.  I get very close to the same temperature either way, but the oral method takes about 2 minutes before the temperature stops climbing and the armpit method may take 6-8 minutes. 

[lex_rooker]

One of the few questions I occasionally ponder re: your experience, Lex, is that it seems that nature does not care much for consistency. It seems to more favor random variation, fractals, power laws, seasonality, feast and famine, and so forth, but I am rather ignorant on such matters.

Can't say that I have anything other than observations and anecdotal evidence, but it does seem that cyclical or frequent but random stress creates a more robust entity.  In the plant world the ancient Bristlecone Pine lives at 12,000-14,000 ft in rocks and cracks and it tenuously survives for 4,000 years or longer.  Plants that have been pampered in a green house often die of shock when moved outdoors even in a mild climate. (I pursued a degree in Ornamental Horticulture for several years and had to study this stuff.)

My dad also echoed something similar when we were kids.  We used to have several pets and my dad would insist that they spend the night outdoors all year around.  He said that keeping the dogs, cats, and other critters indoors would compromise their health and shorten their life.  As an example, my grandfather came to live with us and brought his little lap dog (pekingese and pomeranian mix)  it was sickly with watery eyes, runny nose, and was taking heart and kidney medications.  My dad threw the dog outside and stopped the meds.  The dog got better and outlived granddad.

Lex

[cherimoya_kid]

Can't say that I have anything other than observations and anecdotal evidence, but it does seem that cyclical or frequent but random stress creates a more robust entity.  In the plant world the ancient Bristlecone Pine lives at 12,000-14,000 ft in rocks and cracks and it tenuously survives for 4,000 years or longer.  Plants that have been pampered in a green house often die of shock when moved outdoors even in a mild climate. (I pursued a degree in Ornamental Horticulture for several years and had to study this stuff.)

My dad also echoed something similar when we were kids.  We used to have several pets and my dad would insist that they spend the night outdoors all year around.  He said that keeping the dogs, cats, and other critters indoors would compromise their health and shorten their life.  As an example, my grandfather came to live with us and brought his little lap dog (pekingese and pomeranian mix)  it was sickly with watery eyes, runny nose, and was taking heart and kidney medications.  My dad threw the dog outside and stopped the meds.  The dog got better and outlived granddad.

Lex

I think RAF in general create a more robust human, IME. 

As far as dogs and cats, they're probably eating insects and small mammals outside, so they're getting some fresh RAF that way. 

[lex_rooker]

As far as dogs and cats, they're probably eating insects and small mammals outside, so they're getting some fresh RAF that way. 

From what I remember, our dogs didn't eat any small mamals or insects but of course the cats would get a mouse, rat, or gopher once in a while.  We had a couple of free range chickens and a duck that ran around the yard.  Had problems with snails until the chickens and duck wiped them out.  Got so we kids were importing snails from the neighbor's yards to keep the birds happy.  Needless to say, it didn't take long before the snail problem in our neighborhood was solved and there were no pesticides involved.

Lex

[lex_rooker]

Generally all is going well with the iodine experiment.  This week I got a blister on my index finger on the inside of the finger between the  second and 3'rd knuckle next to the 3rd finger.  There was no explanation for this other than it might be a detox reaction from the iodine.  I went to bed one night and when I woke up in the morning the blister was there and it was itching worse than a mosquito bite.  Very annoying.  The blister popped the same day and it has been red and tender for the last 3 days.  So far, that is the only thing out of the ordinary.

Basal temp was still 97 +- 0.5 degF all week so no change there.

Most nights I was up 3-4 times but twice this week I only got up once.

I also notice that the amount of urine released seems to be increasing.  Might be my imagination but I think I'll start measuring it to see if it is real or just wishful thinking.

Lex

[Inger]

About temp.. the only way to take accurate temps is "down there"..
I mean, serious.

[lex_rooker]

About temp.. the only way to take accurate temps is "down there"..
I mean, serious.

I remember that when I was a kid.  I think they used to take babies and children's temps in the bum because the thermometers were glass filled with mercury and there was a great risk that we'd bite down on them and break them.  I suppose the digital age has significantly lessened this risk.

Lex

[goodsamaritan]

Aren't the digital gun type in the ears the new high tech way to take the temperature?  How good are those?

[ys]

I have one of those non-contact infrared for generic purpose. It is off by few degrees but generally works well.  I think there are very precise models specifically for measuring body temp if $$$ are no issue.