Lex's Journal

[lex_rooker]

I've been told that my request for a DEXA Scan bone density test has been approved so I'll call for an appointment next week.  I have no idea what the wait time is for the test but will post the results when they are available.

Lex

[Danny]

Good stuff Lex,

Does your HMO pay for other hormone panels (testosterone, estrogen, free t3, t4)? That stuff would be really interesting to have over the course of 4 years.

[PaleoPhil]

Good news, Lex. I predict excellent results for you. Have you had any scans done in the past?

[lex_rooker]

Does your HMO pay for other hormone panels (testosterone, estrogen, free t3, t4)? That stuff would be really interesting to have over the course of 4 years.

Danny,  I've had Testosterone and t4 done in the past and both were just fine.  I asked for a full thyroid panel this time but it was denied.  My TSH is good and I have no symptoms so they said no.  I didn't ask for a Testosterone as libido is fine and there seemed no point - especially since I have no test from 5 years ago to compare with.

Good news, Lex. I predict excellent results for you. Have you had any scans done in the past?

No, I've never had a DEXA scan before.  I was able to convince them to do it this time because there are no real symptoms of weak bones (until they snap) and they think I'm eating such a goofy diety that the doctor felt it was good insurance.  My guess is that if this turns out well, they won't authorize another one for several years.

Lex

[carnivore]

Hmmmm, you can't lower protein and keep fat constant without significantly altering calorie intake.  Based on my experiments, (and at this point in time) total calories seem to have a greater affect on my BG than the fat/protein ratio.

I think you meant to say less glucose? Anyway, I'm sure this is true and is probably what is causing BG to seem elevated.  Glucose can come from protein OR fat and from either diet or breakdown of body tissues (as when fasting).

Protein seems to be turned into BG as some relatively consistent rate - maybe 58%?  Fat is eaten and stored in the triglyceride form which contains a molecule of glycerol.  When the fat is broken down (either by digestion or breaking down body fat), and, if the fatty acids are used as the primary fuel for the body, then the glycerol will remain free as there won't be surplus fatty acids to create a new triglyceride.  The surplus glycerol will also be converted to glucose.  It takes 2 glycerol molecules to make on molecule of glucose so this means that about 10% -12% of the fat will potentially be converted to glucose as well.

Since my body needs little BG, the glucose just collects in the blood until it reaches some trigger level where insulin will be released to cause the excess BG to be converted to fatty acids and either burned as fuel or stored as body fat.  Speculation, but from what I think I know about this stuff, this idea seems reasonable.

Lex

BG fluctuations are probably what one should avoid first, but I find ironic that fasting BG and HbA1c are high on a zerocarb diet (compared to a standard diet) !
The trigger level where insulin is released seems to be higher on a zerocarb diet, which is a good thing if insulin should be minimized.

As for Glycosylated hemoglobin, one explanation could be that on a zc diet, the red blood cell life span is increased?

It would be interesting to see the same blood tests with a vlc and lc diets.

(previous post : glucose, not carbs of course)

[rafonly]

lex's age may be over 50...

you can read abut this here:
http://lowcarb4u.blogspot.com/

{the 2 posts at the top, which are the most recent, + their comments}

food 4 thought

[lex_rooker]

Great news, my DEXA bone density scan has been approved.  Unfortunately the best appointment I can get is August 20 so it will be a week or so after that before I get the results.

Lex

[phatdave]

Do you tell all these people, ie your doctors etc about your diet Lex? I remember you said you didn't tell your dentist. I definately would, i think i would reval in their reactions! (maybe that shows me as being slightly immature!)

But seriously they might find it fascinating.

[lex_rooker]

Dave,
I did tell my doctor exactly what I was going to do back about 4 years ago when I first started making major changes to my diet and lifestyle.  He warned me of all the doom and gloom that I was headed for - stuff like scurvy (and other nutritional deficiency diseases), risk of parasites, increased cholesterol (which was already high by current standards), and blood pressure increases.  Of course none of this has happened and each year my lab tests seem to improve, much to my doctor's dismay.

Now I go see him for my annual tests and he just shakes his head like my situation is some unique anomoly that magically works for me but would never work for the general population.  Then he candidly admits that he just loves all the foods I won't eat and he's not willing to give them up.

Lex

[wodgina]

I would be fascinated if I was your Dr.

Coming to the conclusion your a anomaly is such a human thing to think.

I remember this post from way back when

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/msg2002/#msg2002

''blood PH... amino acids and fatty acids, when consumed in excess, make the blood PH go down, and the body may dump calcium from the bones into the blood stream to compensate. Since leafy greens are rich in calcium, it might be vital to add them to help buffer your PH and spare your bones. Basically, by eating grass-fed meat, you are eating animals that did in fact have alkaline diet, bur you are inverting your PH by eating the animals rather than the leafy greens. I recommend a bone scan periodically too, to make sure you are not dissolving your vertebra and setting yourself up for crippling injuries or fractures."

We should find out how important leafy greens are in mineralization and if your vertebra is weak or not. Can't wait to see the results!

[yon yonson]

yeah, i don't plan on going to the doctor anytime soon, but if i end up going for some reason, im definitely telling him of my diet and will be excited to see his reaction. i think everyone on this diet should be telling their doctors. it'd be a good way to gain at least some credibility with the medical community by putting our health on display.

[William]

yeah, i don't plan on going to the doctor anytime soon, but if i end up going for some reason, im definitely telling him of my diet and will be excited to see his reaction. i think everyone on this diet should be telling their doctors. it'd be a good way to gain at least some credibility with the medical community by putting our health on display.

I predict that your doctor will react the same - at best - as Lex's doctor, and you will gain no credibility. He will think you a freak.

I have enough experience of the medical community that it has lost all credibility with me. The only doctors that are worth a fart in a windstorm are surgeons, and then only for emergencies like broken bones. IMHO

[lex_rooker]

''blood PH... amino acids and fatty acids, when consumed in excess, make the blood PH go down, and the body may dump calcium from the bones into the blood stream to compensate. Since leafy greens are rich in calcium, it might be vital to add them to help buffer your PH and spare your bones. Basically, by eating grass-fed meat, you are eating animals that did in fact have alkaline diet, bur you are inverting your PH by eating the animals rather than the leafy greens. I recommend a bone scan periodically too, to make sure you are not dissolving your vertebra and setting yourself up for crippling injuries or fractures."

This quote did indeed come from my Journal but it was made by Cheryl.  I considered it to be politically correct nonsense but who knows.  I suppose the bone scan will provide some clue.  The only problem is that we won't be able to compare "like with like".  In this case I only have the comments of my dentist to indicate that my jaw bones were less dense than they are now.  

Lex  

[wodgina]

This quote did indeed come from my Journal but it was made by Cheryl.  I considered it to be politically correct nonsense but who knows.  I suppose the bone scan will provide some clue.  The only problem is that we won't be able to compare "like with like".  In this case I only have the comments of my dentist to indicate that my jaw bones were less dense than they are now.  

Lex  

CherylJosie predicted your bones would turn to mush without leafy greens.   

[RawZi]

 I considered it to be politically correct nonsense but who knows.  

    My bones got stronger from RAF and celery, that's about all I was eating when and leading up to when it happened.  Does Cheryl consider celery a green when she says that?

[Nicola]

Hey Lex,

I am not so shore about raw meat vs. cooked meat again - did you catch this on the zerocarb forum:

I've read up on this, and it seems that Dr. Beaumont concluded that "minuteness of division and tenderness" (of the food) in addition to cooking said food helped increase ease of digestion. Raw foods, in short, digest more poorly than cooked foods.

From Catching Fire: "When Beaumont introduced boiled beef and raw beef at noon, the boiled beef was gone by 2 P.M. But the piece of raw, salted, lean beef of the same size was only slighted macerated on the surface, while its general texture remained firm and intact."


and this is what the pemmican familiy has to say about raw meat:

Technically, pemmican isn't a raw food. The meat portion is but the fat portion is not. We've experimented with eating raw meat ala the family in the video but we couldn't do it. We became angry, isolated, frustrated and basically CRAZY! My oldest boy developed autistic symptoms! My wife sat around crying and I became an angry SOB. Enough was enough. We had MUCH better luck when we tried eating our meat cooked to medium, but, of course, our best attempt thus far has been pemmican.

I shudder when I think of our raw experiment. Bacteria can alter human behaviour drastically. This is why pemmican is such a wonder food!

Thoughts?

Nicola

[PaleoPhil]

Heh heh, you've argued for raw at the zero carb forum and for ZC here. Not quite my style, but good for you, Nicola. You have the spunk to keep the pot stirring and the conversations going. I do like to ask a lot of questions too, which can get me into trouble sometimes, so I've never had a problem with people who do question the standard view as long as it's done respectfully, as you seem to.

I find I also digest pemmican better than pure raw meat and fat. However, I suspect that if I had been raised since infancy on lots of raw meat and fat, such as with the Inuit, that there would be no significant difference.

I also suspect that healthier GI systems do better at fighting off bad bacteria, which is a small part of the reason I decided to transition gradually to raw--to possibly give my GI tract a chance to strengthen before I go all the way.

[lex_rooker]

I've read up on this, and it seems that Dr. Beaumont concluded that "minuteness of division and tenderness" (of the food) in addition to cooking said food helped increase ease of digestion. Raw foods, in short, digest more poorly than cooked foods.

From Catching Fire: "When Beaumont introduced boiled beef and raw beef at noon, the boiled beef was gone by 2 P.M. But the piece of raw, salted, lean beef of the same size was only slighted macerated on the surface, while its general texture remained firm and intact."

No other animal cooks its food.  For millions of years we didn’t cook our food either.  Many plant foods are almost totally indigestible unless they are first broken down by cooking.  This may be why, as game became more scarce, and we started substituting plant based foods, we learned to cook them.  I no longer eat much in the way of plant foods so this is not an issue for me, however, when I was eating raw vegan, I can tell you that many of the plant foods I ate raw did not digest well – if at all.

‘Speed’ of digestion or the digestibility of ‘raw salted beef’ doesn’t matter to me at all.  Why would be believe that very rapid digestion is better?  Beaumont made an observation regarding time, but you can’t conclude from the observation which time is correct or ideal.  If we accept the premise that we are best equipped to eat and digest meat and fat, AND that for most of our evolutionary period we ate it raw, THEN however long raw meat and fat take to digest is the ‘correct’ time. 

and this is what the pemmican family has to say about raw meat:

Technically, pemmican isn't a raw food. The meat portion is but the fat portion is not. We've experimented with eating raw meat ala the family in the video but we couldn't do it. We became angry, isolated, frustrated and basically CRAZY! My oldest boy developed autistic symptoms! My wife sat around crying and I became an angry SOB. Enough was enough. We had MUCH better luck when we tried eating our meat cooked to medium, but, of course, our best attempt thus far has been pemmican.

I think this is a bit overstated.  I know hundreds of families that eat all kinds of different diets and I’ve never seen anything as melodramatic as this.  Is this anything like your experience?  I won’t go so far as to say that it is not true, however, I’m very skeptical.  I think they should sell this story to television and turn it into a soap opera or one of those new reality shows.  Also, if I remember correctly, this is the same family that insists that they are ‘rendering’ fat at a temperature of 104F which can’t be done without breaking several laws of physics.

I shudder when I think of our raw experiment. Bacteria can alter human behaviour drastically. This is why pemmican is such a wonder food!

Pemmican is a second rate food.  It is not magical. We evolved to eat our food raw.  I do eat pemmican but only when traveling and my normal raw food is not available.  Our bodies REQUIRE bacteria to be healthy.  Believing that pemmican is some sort of ‘perfect’ food is utter nonsense.

Lex

[PaleoPhil]

I've been meaning to ask you Lex, other than gaining weight on cooked meats (which would be a plus for me), what downsides do you experience when you eat cooked meats at this point? I searched your journal and bio and didn't find anything more.

[lex_rooker]

I've been meaning to ask you Lex, other than gaining weight on cooked meats (which would be a plus for me), what downsides do you experience when you eat cooked meats at this point? I searched your journal and bio and didn't find anything more.

To be honest, I can't really say that I have any problems with cooked meat other than I no longer like it.  I do eat a rare steak once or twice a month when out with friends, and on the major holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmans, and New Years day)  I'll eat a small portion of the well cooked meat (ususally prime rib or a Turkey) served at the family gatherings.  Other than that I've eaten exclusively raw for about 4 years now.

I did have a really bad experience when at a seminar about a year and a half ago.  I was a captive audience and had to do my best on the meals served.  Lunch and diner were usually mostly bread and pasta as these are cheap, so I lived mostly on breakfast foods, eggs, bacon, sausage, etc.  After 5 full days of this I had a very bad case of edema.  My legs, feet, and ankles swelled up to over double their normal size and the skin was stretched to the point of pain.  It took several weeks for everything to return to normal once I got home and returned to eating my normal raw fare.

I made my decision to eat raw meat because no other animal eats its food cooked.  It made no sense that we should cook ours.  I now only eat cooked meat in social situations that require it, like eating in restruants or at family gatherings.  I then ask them to prepare it as rare as possible.  This is only a total of a dozen times per year or so, so it has little impact on my overall diet.  On the occasions when I know the meat will be well done, I eat my normal raw food before I go and then eat a small portion of the cooked meat to be polite.

Lex

[PaleoPhil]

To be honest, I can't really say that I have any problems with cooked meat other than I no longer like it.  ....

I think this is probably one of the biggest factors in why humans didn't cook a lot of their meats/fish until 10 - 100 Kyr BP. Nearly every scientist and most diet gurus assume that Stone Agers would have preferred the taste of cooked meat and been able to digest it more easily, but I suspect that the opposite was true in both cases, based on the experience of people like you. As with most things that have to do with diet and lifestyle, if you follow the view that's opposite of the majority modern opinion, you'll rarely go wrong.

I can, however, imagine Stone Agers smoking meats, as it does add a nice flavor and variety and preserve it a bit longer; and drying meats, which concentrates the flavor and preserves it for a while.

Like you, I think most of the early cooking would have been of difficult-to-digest plant foods.

Based on your experience and mine, in contrast to the devastating effects that a raw fruitarian diet has on humans and chimps, I suspect that the majority of the benefits we're getting come from eating meat/fat/organs, and that eating it raw optimizes it a bit more. Plus, it's also more convenient and we get more value for our money because we get more nutrients out of the meat and don't cook away some of the fat.

[wodgina]

To be honest, I can't really say that I have any problems with cooked meat other than I no longer like it. 
Lex

I find when your truly hungry raw meat tastes amazing...but when your over eating or eating 3 times a day cooked food becomes more appealing because cooked or carby foods affect your true hunger and can over ride your natural stop.

After not eating for 24 hours and being physically active what sort of ravenous self respecting caveman's going to stand around cooking food? Maybe once he's had his full he may start to play around with cooking a bit

[Ioanna]

Eating raw red meat was definitely an adjustment at first, but it's only been almost 3 months now and a cooked steak looks ruined to me!  Why would someone with a lifetime of eating raw meat want to cook it?

[PaleoPhil]

I find when your truly hungry raw meat tastes amazing...but when your over eating or eating 3 times a day cooked food becomes more appealing ...

I've found at least one exception to that for me--at least so far. Raw venison sausage and raw ground venison meat always taste much better to me than cooked, even if I eat it 3x a day. They even have a very good mouth feel--especially the ground venison--whereas raw ground beef still does not.

At this point, the well done bison burgers in the cafeteria at work taste absolutely destroyed--even if I drench them in the only non-dairy fat available there--olive oil. It does seem to be that the more one goes ZC and raw, the better it tends to taste over time, and the worse heavily cooked foods taste--at least so far for me.

[lex_rooker]

...but when your over eating or eating 3 times a day cooked food becomes more appealing because cooked or carby foods affect your true hunger and can over ride your natural stop.

To me cooked meat is tough, rubbery, and bland unless it is highly seasoned with salt and spices.  For me it is the seasonings that cause me to over eat - not the cooking itself.  I find that I prefer cooked meat seasoned and then I do tend to over eat.   I find I prefer raw meat without seasoning and my hunger is satisfied without stuffing myself - there's just a point that I don't want any more.

Lex